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Thread: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

  1. #226
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Yeah, we can't really tell. He was already dominating Ichigo in his first form and all his second form did was...well, let him do more of the same. We don't really know how much his second form increased his ability. For all we know it could have just made him 1% stronger or as strong as Starrk.

  2. #227
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MBVC's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    Yeah, we can't really tell. He was already dominating Ichigo in his first form and all his second form did was...well, let him do more of the same. We don't really know how much his second form increased his ability. For all we know it could have just made him 1% stronger or as strong as Starrk.

    Ulq 1st form >>>> Ichigo in his masked bankai mode.

    Ulq 2nd form =

    ---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Yeah, Ulquiorra in 2nd form wasn't stronger than first 3, let alone Aizen, who could one-shot them.

    Ulq 2nd form >>> Halibel, because I don't think that midget ice boy has any chance surviving Ulq 2.0

    I realized that I am merely a conscience programmed into a game.

  3. #228
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    Ulq 2nd form >>> Halibel, because I don't think that midget ice boy has any chance surviving Ulq 2.0
    Not saying that he wasn't, but we don't really have anything to base that off of. Ice Boy barely had a chance of surviving against Harribel as he was getting beat down in Bankai against her unreleased form. Her releasing pretty much helped him survive since he could also use the water she produced, putting them at a stand still although she was much stronger than him. Hell, even when he got help from two visored, they still couldn't take her down.

    Anyway, that's just a long way of me saying I agree, with your second statement, but am unsure of the first.

  4. #229
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    Let's not go overboard...
    i believe that ichigo in his hollow form in the fight with the final form of ulquiorra was probably as strong or stronger than ichigo in his final getsuga tenshou form

    obviously he was out of control but still insanely powerful

    i believe ulquiorra in his final form could take any of the captains except maybe yamamoto
    and i believe he could hang with aizen if not out right beat him

    of course im a bit of an ulquiorra fan

  5. #230
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    i believe that ichigo in his hollow form in the fight with the final form of ulquiorra was probably as strong or stronger than ichigo in his final getsuga tenshou form

    obviously he was out of control but still insanely powerful

    i believe ulquiorra in his final form could take any of the captains except maybe yamamoto
    and i believe he could hang with aizen if not out right beat him

    of course im a bit of an ulquiorra fan
    I like Ulquiorra as much as the next guy, but we don't have a proper way to measure how strong Segunda Etapa was or how strong Ichigonator was. We just know that Ichigonator>Segunda Etapa>Murcielago>Hollow mask Ichigo. We have no outside comparisons. If Ulquiorra said something like "This true form of mine increases my power twofold" we would have something, but he never did, so we can only compare him to Ichigonator which was as onesided as his first round with regular Ichigo.

  6. #231
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    of course im a bit of an ulquiorra fan
    From what you're saying, I'd take that as a bit of an understatement. Ulquiorra was good, maybe even better than Tier. However, he was by no means the strongest of the Espada. And even the strongest of the Espada only faced off against a senior captain playing around with his shikai. Ulquiorra was popular, so he got some screen time to show off, but let's not oversell him.
    Last edited by Miyagi; October 30, 2013 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #232
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    Ulq 2nd form >>> Halibel, because I don't think that midget ice boy has any chance surviving Ulq 2.0
    First of all, that midget ice boy could one-shot Hallibel and did it, but couldn't use his technique again because Vaizards came. Wonderweiss intervened, that's why Hallibel survived. Ulquiorra's boost in second form wasn't really that impressive I'd say. His number was FOUR, and NOTHING suggests he was stronger than Hallibel, Barragan, Stark or Yammy in his 0 Espada state. Who was the king of Hueco Mundo? Barragan. Ulquiorra wasn't, and he ISN'T stronger than Hallibel.

    And what was Ulquiorra's ability before Ressurection? Wait, nothing? Barragan had Respira AND Ressurection, Hallibel shot energy waves AND Ressurection, Stark had Lilynette, thus the Cero Ressurection AND pack of wolves from his soul. Yammy could change his form after using Ressurection, stepping into higher level. Sounds like something like Segunda Etapa.

    So, what did Ulquiorra have? Segunda Etapa?
    Last edited by Duniak; October 30, 2013 at 02:54 PM.

  8. #233
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MBVC's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    First of all, that midget ice boy could one-shot Hallibel and did it, but couldn't use his technique again because Vaizards came. Wonderweiss intervened, that's why Hallibel survived. Ulquiorra's boost in second form wasn't really that impressive I'd say. His number was FOUR, and NOTHING suggests he was stronger than Hallibel, Barragan, Stark or Yammy in his 0 Espada state. Who was the king of Hueco Mundo? Barragan. Ulquiorra wasn't, and he ISN'T stronger than Hallibel.

    And what was Ulquiorra's ability before Ressurection? Wait, nothing? Barragan had Respira AND Ressurection, Hallibel shot energy waves AND Ressurection, Stark had Lilynette, thus the Cero Ressurection AND pack of wolves from his soul. Yammy could change his form after using Ressurection, stepping into higher level. Sounds like something like Segunda Etapa.

    So, what did Ulquiorra have? Segunda Etapa?


    To put Hitsu >>> Ulq 2.0 is totally insane, you should know that Aizen didn't know Ulq can do the 2nd release, his rank (#4) was based only on his 1st release. I'm not saying Ulq 2 is stronger than Barragan or Stark but he can take #3 without any problem. Yammy was Kubo's miracle who got killed by Byakuya and Kenpachi, I'm sure these 2 can't do the same to Stark and Mr. Skull.

    About your last question, Ulq 2 has extreme high speed & regeneration (he traded power for rapid regeneration), isn't it enough?
    Last edited by MBVC; October 30, 2013 at 04:06 PM.

    I realized that I am merely a conscience programmed into a game.

  9. #234
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    From what you're saying, I'd take that as a bit of an understatement. Ulquiorra was good, maybe even better than Tier. However, he was by no means the strongest of the Espada. And even the strongest of the Espada only faced off against a senior captain playing around with his shikai. Ulquiorra was popular, so he got some screen time to show off, but let's not oversell him.

    As for Grimmjow, he's probably a match for one of the mid to low-tier Sternritters, akin to one of those sliced apart by Kenpachi. I can't see much more from him. He shouldn't have increased his power by much since his loss to Ichigo. Two years might seem like a lot, but for individuals that have already been operating on timescales that go for centuries, it isn't a big deal.
    he was the only espada to reach that level of transformation

    which makes him stronger than any of the other espada

    in fact i believe he could have easily taken gin or tosen

    and given even the final form of aizen a good fight if not won

    grimmjow was certainly strong, being the 5th ranked espada

    and ulquiorra was ranked as the 4th

    however aizen never knew about ulquiorras final form, and he was the only espada to reach that transformation

    i dont see how anyone can assume he wouldnt be ranked ahead of one 0, 1, 2 or 3 with that form

    however it does make for an interesting discussion, i would like to see a thread on it

    lets break this down

    girmjow was

  10. #235
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    To put Hitsu >>> Ulq 2.0 is totally insane, you should know that Aizen didn't know Ulq can do the 2nd release, his rank (#4) was based only on his 1st release.
    First of all, you really think Aizen wouldn't know about this? Bullshit, it was only Ulquiorra's statement. Also, I never put Hitsu above Ulqiorra in Segunda Etapa, learn to read. A>B>C works only in brute force fights. Number being put based on 1st Ressurections? Well, Yammy kind of disproves your point, as his number changed when ressurecting. Number were probably put by reiatsu level, only that would make sense, considering Barragan was "weaker" than Yammy and Stark. Unfortunate for Ulquiorra, though, as he didn't have any ability, just brute force and speed. And despite that he still was 4th.

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    About your last question, Ulq 2 has extreme high speed & regeneration (he traded power for rapid regeneration), isn't it enough?
    We know nothing of his speed in comparison to other Espadas. Stark could easily take Inoue from Ichigo's sight and be gone and in Aizen's palace in less than a second. Barragan didn't need speed at all, he could slow time, making himself fast anyway. And he still could touch Soifon's arm, and she wasn't able to react. Soifon, as in fastest captain.

    PS. Nope, Byakuya and Kenpachi wouldn't scratch neither Barragan nor Stark. They could fight Yammy because he was pure brute force fighter with no ability of any sort.

    Also, I think you guys are seriously overestimating that Segunda Etapa. Ichigo was being trashed when Ulquiorra was in first form, he was trashed when he went Segunda Etapa. For me the boost wasn't anything significant. And knowing other Espadas had ability and something like Segunda Etapa as well, I don't think it had any significance. They just didn't call it like that. Yammy's second transformation or Stark releasing his soul as a weapon (just like Bankai...) was normal for them. They could have said "SEGUNDA ETAPA", it wouldn't change anything.
    Last edited by Duniak; October 30, 2013 at 03:55 PM.

  11. #236
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MBVC's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Really Think That Grimmjow Jaggerjack Is So Strong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    First of all, you really think Aizen wouldn't know about this? Bullshit, it was only Ulquiorra's statement. Also, I never put Hitsu above Ulqiorra in Segunda Etapa, learn to read. A>B>C works only in brute force fights. Number being put based on 1st Ressurections? Well, Yammy kind of disproves your point, as his number changed when ressurecting. Number were probably put by reiatsu level, only that would make sense, considering Barragan was "weaker" than Yammy and Stark. Unfortunate for Ulquiorra, though, as he didn't have any ability, just brute force and speed. And despite that he still was 4th.



    We know nothing of his speed in comparison to other Espadas. Stark could easily take Inoue from Ichigo's sight and be gone and in Aizen's palace in less than a second. Barragan didn't need speed at all, he could slow time, making himself fast anyway. And he still could touch Soifon's arm, and she wasn't able to react. Soifon, as in fastest captain.

    PS. Nope, Byakuya and Kenpachi wouldn't scratch neither Barragan nor Stark. They could fight Yammy because he was pure brute force fighter with no ability of any sort.

    Also, I think you guys are seriously overestimating that Segunda Etapa. Ichigo was being trashed when Ulquiorra was in first form, he was trashed when he went Segunda Etapa. For me the boost wasn't anything significant. And knowing other Espadas had ability and something like Segunda Etapa as well, I don't think it had any significance. They just didn't call it like that. Yammy's second transformation or Stark releasing his soul as a weapon (just like Bankai...) was normal for them. They could have said "SEGUNDA ETAPA", it wouldn't change anything.

    Some typos from my part, but Aizen doesn't know everything, please don't overstate it. Ulq has rapid regeneration which heals him quickly, I believe Stark doesn't have this power that's why he fell quite fast after getting dirty stab by Shunsui. Nah, Stark releasing has the form of fusion and it's only in 1 stage similar to Byakuya's bankai which allows him to use that white emperor sword something.

    ---------- Post added at 05:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    he was the only espada to reach that level of transformation

    which makes him stronger than any of the other espada

    in fact i believe he could have easily taken gin or tosen

    and given even the final form of aizen a good fight if not won

    grimmjow was certainly strong, being the 5th ranked espada

    and ulquiorra was ranked as the 4th

    however aizen never knew about ulquiorras final form, and he was the only espada to reach that transformation

    i dont see how anyone can assume he wouldnt be ranked ahead of one 0, 1, 2 or 3 with that form

    however it does make for an interesting discussion, i would like to see a thread on it

    lets break this down

    girmjow was
    You are overestimate Ulq power, Ulq can't touch Mr. Skull, I'm not sure how he can beat Stark and Gin either, not to mention Aizen.

    I realized that I am merely a conscience programmed into a game.

  12. #237
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Well, the manga did go out of its way to insinuate segunda etapa was a more than considerable boost for ulquiorra.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/94-802-10/...apter-348.html

    In my eyes the scene is pretty explicit. As ishida and orihime were going up ulquiorra was in his resurreccion. Then the guy unleashed his segunda etapa and shit got real for them. Ulquiorra's transformation was significant enough for ishida to even doubt the thing was even reiatsu... No espada or fighter so far has ever given of such a reaction. Its not like ishida would react that way from mere captain level reiatsu either. The guy fought mayuri and tousen an was in SS when yamamoto, shunsui, ukitake, komamura, tousen, kenpachi, yoruichi and soifon were duking it out. He was in HM when several espada were fighting the captains. The guys is by no means unfamiliar with the amount of powers captains have and even then ulquiorra got that reaction out of him. More so, we know what ulquiorra looked like as a hollow. His hollow form is basically the same as his standard resurreccion. Segunda etapa has to be more than just a complete resurreccion or something of the sort because otherwise it would look like his resurreccion. His segunda etapa necessarily has to be more than his resurreccion because the appearance of hollow ulquiorra would otherwise match his segunda etapa. The fact that segunda etapa is so distinct from ulquorra's original hollow form suggests that it is well more than a mere resurreccion. Of course, the implication of an arrancar getting a bankai level boost on top of resurreccion is pretty damn scary. But then again it took a full hollow ichigo with bankai to beat the damn thing...

  13. #238
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    he was the only espada to reach that level of transformation

    which makes him stronger than any of the other espada
    This is news to me. Just because he had another level, doesn't make him the strongest Espada. Starrk's power was great enough that it allowed him to split into two beings. Never-mind the fact that those who were around him had a tendency to die from his power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    in fact i believe he could have easily taken gin or tosen
    You are getting a bit ridiculous here. I'm not saying he wouldn't give them a good fight, but, as I stated earlier, we have no measure of his strength in this form.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    and given even the final form of aizen a good fight if not won
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    grimmjow was certainly strong, being the 5th ranked espada
    He was the 6th.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    however aizen never knew about ulquiorras final form, and he was the only espada to reach that transformation
    He was also the "only" Espada who could regenerate, but seeing as how Nnoitra did the same thing, I am not putting much stock into what he said during this battle, including his statement that Aizen didn't know how his second form. Plus, he only said Aizen hasn't seen it, he didn't say anything about him not knowing about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    i dont see how anyone can assume he wouldnt be ranked ahead of one 0, 1, 2 or 3 with that form
    Because we have no comparison of power. He was already kicking Ichigo's ass in his previous forms and then he did more of the same in this one. Then he got his ass kicked by Ichigonator who we also have no way of measuring. We don't know by how much his reiatsu was increased. We know it made him stronger, but by how much is what we don't know.

    @kkck

    Not all of the fighters in S.S went Bankai at the same time, which is when the power growth in really noticed. We saw this with Zanka no Tachi not to long ago. And even then, when both Uryu and Orihime finally reached Ichigo's corpse and Ulquiorra, they were able to withstand the pressure. I'll agree that it is an evolution of his abilities. I don't think it was a Bankai level boost, as some resurreccion are already as strong as Bankai. I think it was just a specialization like Byakuya's Senkai. Besides, Uryu only mentioned the nature of the form's reiatsu, not the power, again, similar to how Zanka no Tachi was.
    Last edited by eefrit; October 30, 2013 at 05:37 PM.

  14. #239
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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    I'm 90% sure RSE only exists because Kubo decided against the sun dress look Ulquiorra had going on in Primera Etapa...

    But that aside, I don't know what to think about Ulquiorra's power in that form. True, Uryuu made a big deal about his reiatsu, but he seemed to be commenting on the 'blackness' of it more than the magnitude, which goes with Ulquiorra's status as the Espada of emptiness. It is hard to say where he goes in relation to the top 3. I'd say Baraggan is definitely more powerful. For an example, Ulquiorra speedblitzed Ichigo to a ridiculous degree even in R1 but Baraggan speedblitzed Sui Feng in base form, which is arguably an equally impressive feat. So I wouldn't put Ulq above Baraggan and therefore Starrk. In Harribel's case it's less obvious. Really her whole fight with Hitsugaya was a pretty awful way of showing off her skills, in fact it's about the only Bleach fight I really hate. But yeah, she was stronger than Hitsugaya in base, yet he seemed fast enough to keep her at a distance when she released. That doesn't make her weaker then Ulquiorra though, it could just be that he's faster than her.

    It's hard to say. Especially since he was stomping Ichigo at all times, until Ichigo transformed and stomped him. It's tricky to gauge his power when the only times he's fought there's been a big gap between him and the enemy, so there's a pretty wide range to put him in. I'm kind of torn between thinking RSE put him above Harribel's resurrecion and thinking it was purely a different but equal form of his power.

  15. #240
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Segunda Etapa is no big deal

    He was distinctly more powerful than Halibel thanks to Segunda Etappa (based on the caliber of foes both characters fought. I know that's not how this stuff works but we don't have a lot else to go on) but I don't think he could've went toe-to-toe with released Barragan.

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