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Thread: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    One thing this line of thought does bring up is just how 'alive' is Zangetsu and the Zanpakuto spirit in general? It's something I've been thinking about for a while and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Zangetsu claims to have been suppressing Ichigo's Shinigami power to keep him from battle. Is Zangetsu literally a sentient being and has he actually been doing this is the question? Shinigami and Quincy powers are opposites, so it stands to reason that they would work against each other within Ichigo. When Zangetsu tells Ichigo that he was working against the Shinigami power, could that be entirely in Ichigo's head? Like it's simply his subconscious's way of identifying the problem and fixing it. The whole "king and his horse" routine with White could be a different matter, since White was actually an individual being that happened to exist inside Ichigo. But with Zan spirits I wonder. Every time a spirit has 'taught' it's owner a technique, it could just be that that's the way the Shinigami perceives the event of learning an ability, but what's actually happening is that the ability is being formed at that very moment by the Shinigami themselves on a subconscious level, if that makes sense.

    It's not really a question that actually needs answering at all in the story, just a thought that's popped into my head a few times.

    ---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    Because Bach lost the battle 1000 years ago, hence he has learned to use Yamamoto's ruthless way in order to win the next war.
    Maybe, but Yhwach doesn't just seem to be acting this way because he has to, he seems to actually enjoy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    I wonder how many quincies in the present still have this old version of Bach inside themselves.
    I'd say none. Inner spirits are a strictly Shinigami thing, Cang Du even told Hitsugaya that Bankai aren't alive. If he had his own inner Yhwach, I think he'd understand what Hitsugaya was doing talking to Hyourinmaru.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    A period of 1000 years is long enough to change someone mind especially that person lost almost everything.

    Yes, an ordinary spirit can't control and compress the power of the owner. Anyway, in the quincy case Bach is said to be present inside their blood hence they only see the only unique Bach and every quincies have the same version (however they use different techniques from the same source); on the other hand, shinigami have more diverge types of power hence they see different spirits in their bankais.

    Even gods could not be absolutely certain whether they existed at the most fundamental level of reality or were themselves simulated.

  3. #18
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    That guy slept for last 999 years. Those 1000 years are like 1 year to him.

  4. #19
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    I believe he wakes up after 900 years, gains his intellectual & memory after 90 years and his power after 9 years. I could understand why Yamamoto didn't kill Bach 1000 years ago if the man was the same version inside Ichigo, but the current one is totally evil no matter how you look at him.

    Even gods could not be absolutely certain whether they existed at the most fundamental level of reality or were themselves simulated.

  5. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member mrsticky005's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    Here's how I see it. Either...

    1. Old Man Zangetsu and Yhwach are connected somehow thus giving Yhwach vital intelligence on Ichigo.

    2. Old Man Zangetsu and Yhwach are independent but Old Man Zangetsu remembers the past of Yhwach thus giving Ichigo vital intelligence on Yhwach.

    The second one is looking more likely. Either way I SERIOUSLY doubt that Kubo is going to just leave it as "oh they look similar just cause".
    Yes Yhwach is the father of all Quincy so it makes sense but at the same time it's too damn coincidental to not mean SOMETHING.

    Unless of course it's the ultimate troll.

  6. #21
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    But it's clearly not "just because", we got a reason with Bach being the originator and Ichigo somehow having Bach like a Zan spirit because he's a weird shinigami/quincy hybrid as it seems. Yuha's blood is his meories and OMZangetsu is likely a manifestation of that blood acting like a zan until the truth was revealed. If he got any information to give it would be about the last war, but I can't see him speak up with Ichigo telling the two that he's done with relying on them.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member mrsticky005's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    But it's clearly not "just because", we got a reason with Bach being the originator and Ichigo somehow having Bach like a Zan spirit because he's a weird shinigami/quincy hybrid as it seems. Yuha's blood is his meories and OMZangetsu is likely a manifestation of that blood acting like a zan until the truth was revealed. If he got any information to give it would be about the last war, but I can't see him speak up with Ichigo telling the two that he's done with relying on them.


    That wasn't quite what I meant. I didn't mean that there was no explanation.
    I'm saying that I don't think Kubo would have OMZ look like Bach's young form
    without it having some vital significance to the story and since we have already
    established Ichigo as a Quincy and Bach being the granddaddy of them all
    before the reveal then the significance of the reveal oughta be something else.

  8. #23
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    I'm don't know what you are looking for. OMZangetsu looking like Young Bach had a significant reason and it was explained in full in those chapters. What kind of significance are you looking for exactly? Your "1." doesn't even make any sense if you reread those chapters, especially those inbetween those two pictures above.
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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity danzouismadara's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Bach of 1000 years ago (staying inside Ichigo) independent of the current Bach?

    he is just a fragment of Bach soul


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    Ive seen Deathnote, deadman wonderland, fairytale, shigurui, ao no exorcist, beelzebub, samurai champloo, code geass, devil may cry, Hakuouki, monster, blood plus, gantz. Basically, something with demons and gore.

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