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Thread: How deep is your canon...

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Asarii's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Manga, SBS, Oda's interviews/anything that comes out of his mouth and databooks that have information backed up by the manga.

    Personally I find the fillers and non-Strong World films to be doing a good job at respecting the source material so I'm never like, "OMG THIS ISN'T CANONNNNNN!!!!! "

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  3. #17
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Asarii View Post
    Personally I find the fillers and non-Strong World films to be doing a good job at respecting the source material so I'm never like, "OMG THIS ISN'T CANONNNNNN!!!!! "
    Lol? Non-Strong World films are SUPER non-canon.
    Like when Zoro took out Sanji in Movie 5? Movie 8 & 9 which are just alternate reality versions of the Alabasta arc and the Drum Kingdom arc?
    Like when Luffy the DF user ran about and played in the OCEAN in Movie 6?
    I could go on.
    Only particular Movies that Oda was involved in are canon.

  4. #18
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    In other words you're saying Oda contradicts himself and his own works.
    SBS and Databooks are supposed to be Oda no different to the manga.
    I honestly don't care, manga is 100% fact. SBS isn't always fact, while databooks aren't either or might not have full information. Databooks, if I recall, go by manga and aren't updated as the chapters or arcs go by. There are volumes that release every year or so.

  5. #19
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Lol? Non-Strong World films are SUPER non-canon.
    Like when Zoro took out Sanji in Movie 5? Movie 8 & 9 which are just alternate reality versions of the Alabasta arc and the Drum Kingdom arc?
    Like when Luffy the DF user ran about and played in the OCEAN in Movie 6?
    I could go on.
    Only particular Movies that Oda was involved in are canon.
    Where in my post did I say that they were canon though? All I did was EQUATING fillers WITH all the films that aren't Strong World.

  6. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Personally, I always just go by whatever the manga says. There did come a time though, that it turned out some of the stuff about where the strawhats went to during the time skip was shown in the anime before it officially showed up in the manga, so I do put some degree of faith in the anime except when it's inconsistent with the manga. I don't consider myself an expert on One Piece, so whatever else that comes up (SBS, movies, etc.) I just see as extra information that doesn't have a big impact or influence on the actual main story. It's not like One Piece has far reaching inconsistencies like some of the other manga I'm keeping up with right now so I'm not too bothered about those things.... But at least for the anime, I find it easier to understand what's going on when its animated that sometimes gives extra information about the story that black and white manga panels don't always show.

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  8. #21
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Asarii View Post
    Where in my post did I say that they were canon though? All I did was EQUATING fillers WITH all the films that aren't Strong World.
    In the part where you said "OMG THIS ISN'T CANONNNNNN!!!!! " and the part where you said they are "doing a good job"
    If you the fillers and non-strong world movies don't strike you as being strongly non-canon then I was just saying I'm pretty much shocked and was listing down examples.
    I never even said that you said they were canon. I'm saying that I think the opposite and that the Non-Strong World Movies did a bad job excluding Film Z.

    The bold and capital letters in your post is unnecessary. I pretty much replied to your post fairly.

  9. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduren View Post
    I don't consider myself an expert on One Piece, so whatever else that comes up (SBS, movies, etc.) I just see as extra information that doesn't have a big impact or influence on the actual main story.
    Super-floating wood. And those special SBS about Merry's and Sunny's ship interior. And character ages. They're all canon and have been brought up by SBS.

    Most of the stuff is only background information - but once Oda decides to reveal stuff in SBS, it is canon as it comes directly from him.

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  11. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    Super-floating wood. And those special SBS about Merry's and Sunny's ship interior. And character ages. They're all canon and have been brought up by SBS.

    Most of the stuff is only background information - but once Oda decides to reveal stuff in SBS, it is canon as it comes directly from him.
    Its fine that it's canon.... I have no reason to refute it or debate over it. I'm just saying that if it was so important and pivotal to the main plot of the story it would probably also be explained in the manga directly.

    For example, how knock up streams work and how the cumuloregalis cloud is able to support structures was explained directly in the story so even someone like me who isn't exposed to SBS and the like still know about it. Since those kinds of things don't exist in this world, suddenly being expected to believe that there's an island floating in the sky would be hard for a reader to believe without an explanation (which is why I believe it was explicitly explained in the manga as important to make the story believable). But since I don't keep up with stuff outside the manga and anime, I don't expect most people to know those details like the Super-floating wood.

    But if a situation ever came up where people would debate over "why did the wood not sink when it should've?" then this little tidbit about the super-floating wood would be important and the fact that it's canon with regards to the story even though it wasn't stated in the manga would also be important.... until that happens though, (I think) it's not really that important for everybody who keeps up with the story to know.

    EDIT: Actually, if you're talking about the floating wood the strawhats used to rise out into the new world, I was already satisfied (as a reader) with the explanation that Franky gave here in the manga.
    Last edited by Anduren; October 30, 2013 at 09:14 PM.

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  13. #24
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduren View Post
    Its fine that it's canon.... I have no reason to refute it or debate over it. I'm just saying that if it was so important and pivotal to the main plot of the story it would probably also be explained in the manga directly.

    For example, how knock up streams work and how the cumuloregalis cloud is able to support structures was explained directly in the story so even someone like me who isn't exposed to SBS and the like still know about it. Since those kinds of things don't exist in this world, suddenly being expected to believe that there's an island floating in the sky would be hard for a reader to believe without an explanation (which is why I believe it was explicitly explained in the manga as important to make the story believable). But since I don't keep up with stuff outside the manga and anime, I don't expect most people to know those details like the Super-floating wood.

    But if a situation ever came up where people would debate over "why did the wood not sink when it should've?" then this little tidbit about the super-floating wood would be important and the fact that it's canon with regards to the story even though it wasn't stated in the manga would also be important.... until that happens though, (I think) it's not really that important for everybody who keeps up with the story to know.

    EDIT: Actually, if you're talking about the floating wood the strawhats used to rise out into the new world, I was already satisfied (as a reader) with the explanation that Franky gave here in the manga.
    You can use SBS as extra info for the manga until Oda actually confirms it in the manga. Unless shown otherwise, I guess we can take stuff like the Shichibukai drawn as kids as canon. To be honest though, I wouldn't take it as 100% fact or canon until the manga proves it so. I mean, what stops Oda from drawing Crocodile as a guy in the SBS but actually drawing him as originally being a girl in the manga, which he always planned on doing?

  14. #25
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Just to add, that picture of Crocodile in SBS could also be showing a tomboyish girl. Purposefully, most likely.

    Heh
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    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

  15. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member winterwyrm's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    In other words you're saying Oda contradicts himself and his own works.
    SBS and Databooks are supposed to be Oda no different to the manga.
    SBS is, but the databooks have been proven to have been written by people who only communicate with Oda, for reference see here: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Marshall_D._Teach#Trivia

    After his first appearance the databooks said that blackbeard was "cherry pie man" who lived in loguetown, ironically because that databook was written right between when blackbeard was shown there, and he was revealed, it came out about two-three chapters after blackbeard had been revealed, and honestly the conversation he had with luffy heavily implied that he was not a native of loguetown, honestly we could have made a better guess than that. The databooks are mostly just recap, with oda likely throwing them a bone or two here and there, since some critical information has been released in them.

    In the anime marco was portrayed as a stock character when shanks met whitebeard as well, I doubt there is any communication there, we should just go by the manga and the additions to it that come with new volumes, that includes the SBS.
    Last edited by winterwyrm; November 02, 2013 at 01:01 PM.

  16. #27
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Not really important, but I think you meant Mock Town.

    Heh
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    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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  18. #28
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    @winterwyrm Thanks I didn't actually know that.
    Since the Databooks involve middle men scribing things down for Oda as oppose to the Manga/SBS I'll only count Manga/SBS as canon then.
    I guess Databooks can count as canon to a certain extent but not like Manga/SBS then.

  19. #29
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    Quote Originally Posted by winterwyrm View Post
    SBS is, but the databooks have been proven to have been written by people who only communicate with Oda, for reference see here: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Marshall_D._Teach#Trivia
    See, creating books is a ongoing process up to certain deadlines. If one is done collecting information, another one is starting his work on the final layout on how to present the collected data etc.

    Up to that collecting deadline of One Piece Blue, Volume 24 was just released in Japan:
    • Volume 24th 1st edition was published on Sep 9th, 2002
    • One Piece Blue's 1st edition was published on Aug 7th, 2002
    • Volume 25th 1st edition was published on Nov 9th, 2002

    Those dates come directly from the RAW versions.

    Add up the time to printing hundred thousands of copies, and you have your reason why Blackbeard is only listed as "Cherry-pie man" in One Piece Blue. Not having the name "Blackbeard" appearing next to the "Cherry-pie man"'s image is hardly proof that Oda does not work on databooks.

    One Piece Databooks have always been actual up to the latest tankobon, not the latest Jump chapter. This hasn't changed much even though Oda lately provides character names in databooks - and this actually is evidence that Oda does have massive influence on the databooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by winterwyrm View Post
    After his first appearance the databooks said that blackbeard was "cherry pie man" who lived in loguetown
    I don't know whatever "translation" you read on this entry. But what you're stating is wrong and completely made up.

    The entry "Cherry-pie man" in the databook OPBlue doesn't say anything about him living in Loguetown (Which would the wrong town anyways btw: Did you mean "Mock Town" by any chance?), nor does it even mention a town at all. It just says that Luffy and he got into a quarrel about their different tastes on cherry-pies and the bar's drink.

    Here's his entry:


    There's nothing about either ローグタウン or モックタウン, so it can't mention him living in Loguetown (or Mock Town).

    Quote Originally Posted by winterwyrm View Post
    In the anime marco was portrayed as a stock character when shanks met whitebeard as well,
    Wrong. That was when Rockstar came on board, and he just had the wrong hair color. In the manga, Marco wasn't actually that detailed with two lines of dialogue, either. So what is left there is some odd color pattern for both Marco and Jozu.

  20. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member winterwyrm's Avatar
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    Re: How deep is your canon...

    @hoeru- Not true, it explicitly states that "cherry pie man" is his name, and that he is a "regular customer of the mock town pub" which is not possible, since ace's adventures tell that BB left whitebeard's crew not too long ago, and BB had been in drum kingdom recently, therefore due to him being obviously active, and just dropping by mock town, that could not be true. They obviously just guessed about him because they thought we would never see him again.

    Well it is up for debate about marco, but he really looks like the anime writers didn't know he was supposed to be a significant character, if you watch the episode, he doesn't move much in the background, if they had known he would be a big deal, they typically show him looking up, or doing something to emphasize him, instead he is drawn as part of the background.

    Yes, I did list the wrong town though, I read that some time ago.
    Last edited by winterwyrm; November 03, 2013 at 01:55 AM.

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