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Thread: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

  1. #31
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SharkBait's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    Gesicht asks Brau: “what was the human robot thinking 8 years ago?” Braus’s answer is that there is nothing wrong with his code or with his artificial intelligence. That’s choking, since what you would expect is that the robot that assassinated humans would have some kind of malfunction. Much more if all of them are made and programed in such a way that they don’t kill humans. So what’s happening with him?

    THat what I wanted addressed the most (as well as why a lance is through him). His comment about it being the fear of the humans was intriguing and at least, assuming the actual case then wasnt actually caused by the robot death then that would really make the humans look bad. Though I guess were missing information on that crime. The current one being a human is odd at least if it is implicated in North 2's death how was a human that high in the sky fighting like that?
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  3. #32
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    THat what I wanted addressed the most (as well as why a lance is through him). His comment about it being the fear of the humans was intriguing and at least, assuming the actual case then wasnt actually caused by the robot death then that would really make the humans look bad. Though I guess were missing information on that crime. The current one being a human is odd at least if it is implicated in North 2's death how was a human that high in the sky fighting like that?
    Sure no human can do that... What impresses me much is that if there is nothing wrong with Brau's AI, then, for what humans know about robots, all robots could become assassins...

  4. #33
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member nanaDmari's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    Nevertheless, some questions remains. Is the assassin human or robot? I wonder about this very much, since on one side, Montblanc only could be killed by a robot; and on the other side, Robin registered that the guy jumping from Ranke’s apartment building to the other building, and apparently the assassin, was human. Or is it that there is no just one assassin but two or more? And last but not least, why is he (or are they) killing all these people?
    1. Gesicht asks Brau: “what was the human robot thinking 8 years ago?” Braus’s answer is that there is nothing wrong with his code or with his artificial intelligence. That’s choking, since what you would expect is that the robot that assassinated humans would have some kind of malfunction. Much more if all of them are made and programed in such a way that they don’t kill humans. So what’s happening with him?
    2. What do they both saw in the pictures Gesicht took of the crime scene, that lead them both to the conclusion that the assassin is going to kill six of the most powerful and advanced robots in the world, included Gesicht.

    Finally a note about Gesicht. There are two mysteries about him: his dreams with the blood on the street, and that kind of bug he has when suddenly a guy appears in his mind charging him with 500 Zeus for each one of some articles. Those mysteries captures my attention given that we can see how the authors take good care of showing us Gesicht human side. He worries about his wife, and he’s also tired; he’s sad because of Robin’s death, and he feels sorrow for Robin’s wife. Very interesting character given that with him, the most human among the characters so far is also one of the most powerful robots in the world, and likely an objective of the mighty assassin he's looking for. Just, what will happen to Gesicht next?
    At this point, there are robots with great similarity with humans, even though Gesicht states you can tell robots and humans apart in some way. Also, we are talking about the most advanced ones here, it wouldn't be too strange to think it's a model much more advanced that it would actually be mistakenly identified as a human by Robin.

    Yes, if a robot is violating a law codified into its A.I, you would definitely think its malfunctioning.
    Something could have altered his code so there would be a way for him to kill humans, but Brau says nothing is wrong with his code. I wonder...

    You know how Professor Hoffmann quotes Freud, saying that dreams are a manifestation of real events?
    That only makes me think that Gesicht dreams are memories. Like, things that should have been totally erased from his chip, just how he offered to erase those memories from Robin's wife so she wouldn't suffer, but somehow those scenes remained. If that's the case, I wonder whose blood that is, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by FaustXIII View Post
    Spoiler: Black Jack Reference show
    Yeah, it must be a reference to Black Jack there, and it also remind me of Tenma in a way...

    North #2 and Paul Duncan's arc was really touching, I had to hold my tears...

    And I found the scene were Gesicht tells Robin's wife what happenned to him really good. Many emotions in this first volume, great read so far n_n

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  6. #34
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by nanaDmari View Post
    At this point, there are robots with great similarity with humans, even though Gesicht states you can tell robots and humans apart in some way. Also, we are talking about the most advanced ones here, it wouldn't be too strange to think it's a model much more advanced that it would actually be mistakenly identified as a human by Robin.
    So, you say robots could make mistakes too. That's possible, even if Gesicht assumes that Robin report is correct. What is sure is that robots don't know everything :-)

    _______________

    About the schedule

    We are FaustXIII, Demonspeed, SharkBait, k-dom, nanaDmari, xScar, mistgyu and me. The agreed pace was from Nov 1 to 8 for the reading of volume 1. Now it's November 2, and most of us have already read and commented the whole volume 1: xScar and mistgyu had previously read the whole manga, and Faust, SharkBait, nana and me have ended vol 1. Only left Demonspeed and k-dom who said that he would join us later.

    Given that, also that we have an intriguing plot, and lately that most of us seems to be enjoying the story, let me ask you people: Would be or not a good idea to increase the reading pace and to include volume 2 in this week too? Let's share our thoughts on it, and based on the majority's preference, we could take a decision.

    Personally I vote for reading vol 2 this week too, and to decide later, after its reading, if we read vol 3 and 4 on the next week or if we come back to the slow pace with vol 3 on the next week.

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  8. #35
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SharkBait's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Oh I liked the one volume, since I can only fit in that much in a week/weekend.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    Oh I liked the one volume, since I can only fit in that much in a week/weekend.
    Same. I will be very busy for the 2 coming weeks, I didn't even finished volume 1 yet.
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    I don't mind reading 2 volumes per week.

  11. #38
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner mistgyu's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    Same. I will be very busy for the 2 coming weeks, I didn't even finished volume 1 yet.
    Same here, but you can continue I'll catch up.

  12. #39
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Lomahongva's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Hi! I know it's a bit late but I'd like to participate too. The problem is that this week I'm a bit busy in RL so I won't be able to post my own ideas till later tis week. : (
    But i had read vol. 1 months ago so rereading it and vol. 2 now it's possible for me.

    See you.

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  14. #40
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomahongva View Post
    Hi! I know it's a bit late but I'd like to participate too. The problem is that this week I'm a bit busy in RL so I won't be able to post my own ideas till later tis week. : (
    But i had read vol. 1 months ago so rereading it and vol. 2 now it's possible for me.

    See you.
    Hi Loma,

    Thanks for join us, that is great!

    About the schedule

    Well people, given that many of us don't have the time to read 2 volumes per week, and that is better if we advance together (which is the purpose of the collective reading), it's better to keep the schedule we already had. So lets give some time to properly end the first volume this week, and we will begin the comments on volume 2 the next friday, as we had previously agreed.

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  16. #41
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member nanaDmari's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    So, you say robots could make mistakes too. That's possible, even if Gesicht assumes that Robin report is correct. What is sure is that robots don't know everything :-) .
    Yes, I think they can make mistakes, their a.i. still needs to be codified and given parameters by someone, right?

    About the schedule, for me its best to be 1 per week too, as I only get to read in the weekend :T

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  18. #42
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted k-dom's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Damn Kewl for releasing all these Animal Country volumes when I promised to join this collective reading :-)
    Volume 1 was really nice. You recognize Urasawa art at first glance.
    About the story I'm quite happy that I'm not familiar with Astro Boy since it gave me some nice surprise. In particular the robot family and the fact that Gesicht is a robot.
    I don't know if it is said somewhere but Gesicht means face in german. And it's quite funny that Gesicht one is not particularly expressive.
    About the murderer, I think he is a robot. I don't think a human could have killed North and they wouldn't have been a battle since he cannot arm human. Why can he kill ? Is it a natural process like it seems to be the case 8 years ago or is the robot reprogrammed by a terrorist scientist ?
    When I read this volume, I found that these figures are lacking so far. We saw one briefly in the first page but then no more as if the existence of the person who build these 'best' robots are not important.

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  20. #43
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Lomahongva's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Finally done with vol. 1 (and with some free time for re-reading it).

    This is the first time I read a title about robots, unless the 2 or 3 volumes of Yokohama Kaidashi Kiko that I read, and sadly had to put on hold (may be I’ll retake it once we finish Pluto), and watching some caps of Ghost in the Shell count.

    Firstly, I loved Urasawa’s art a lot. Its detailed backgrounds and the generic planes of this futuristic setting. And it is combined at the same time with a shounen style in the characters’ design, specially their faces, but they also have a personal touch that creates Urasawa’s characteristic art. Althought many of them look a bit similar to me, in fact, I think is the way he draws noses.

    I found very interesting the fact that robots tend to resamble more and more to humans, not only in the physical aspect (the most modern models), but also in their manners! Imitate drinking tea or even eating a normal dinner. I was astonished while Gesischt and Brando’s family were eating together). But the most important thing of it all it’s that they are creating feelings and even have a sensibilty: they love music, poetry and even have fear and resentement of for their sins during the war! (Really, while reading this volume I was unable to think that they were robots).

    And what’s more, Brau, the killer robot, didn’t have a misfunction in his A.I so he must had to obey the robotics laws he was programmed with.
    These two things make me wonder if robots, at leats some of them, have gone beyond their creator’s plans, if they have evolved and became or creted an own semi-human conscience.

    I agree that Gesicht’s dream and that recurrent memory of that old man are something important for his character development. If that dream is a memory , why Gesischt can’t remember it? Can robots also have traumas that block memories? Is there a possibility that his memory has been modified in some sort?
    Now, about the murderer. I agree with you that the data from the crime scenes and the characteristics of the murders point to a robot. But that robot-cop identify the suspect like a human. What about a hybryd? A human with robot parts? Sir Duncan mentioned bionic eyes IIRC.

    And finally, I loved the moment in which Gesischit was conforting the robot-cop's widow, and that North #2 sang the song while he was falling, one of the most touching farewell acts I’ve ever read in a manga.

    P.S.: Sorry if my post sounds a bit repetitive and its lenght. I tried to read more or less the other posts but i skipped them a bit.

    Oh, And I believe that the Asian Conflict it's related to the mistery. It looks that everyone of the 7 super robots were implicated.
    Last edited by Lomahongva; November 06, 2013 at 04:00 PM.

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  22. #44
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ukimix's Avatar
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomahongva View Post
    This is the first time I read a title about robots, unless the 2 or 3 volumes of Yokohama Kaidashi Kiko that I read, and sadly had to put on hold (may be I’ll retake it once we finish Pluto), and watching some caps of Ghost in the Shell count.
    There is a common feature in YKK and Pluto. In both robots try to resemble humans, or try to adopt human behaviours. This seems to be kind of a cliche, and I like when the stories show robots going beyond of that (YKK does it - You have to end it; it just adorable). Brando and his wife eating as if they were humans was lovely, because it's about taking care of their children. But when a robot tries to resemble humans as if that would be the ultimate goal, is, to me, boring and uncomfortable, because I don't like much anthropocentric plots, and/or the story has to offer an additional and improbable explanation clearing why other kind of beings have to try to be like humans.

    (This topic reminds me of Blade Runner. Has anyone watch it? It's about a robot who looks for his creator to be able to prolong his deadline. Absoultaely fantastic film by Ridley Scott. EDIT: In wanting to prolong his deadline, that robot wants to change his own code...!)

    ---------- Post added November 08, 2013 at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was November 06, 2013 at 04:09 PM ----------

    Thread opened for comments on Volume 2 (chapters 8 to 15), from Nov 8 to 14

    Enjoy your reading!
    Last edited by ukimix; November 06, 2013 at 09:08 PM.

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  24. #45
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    Re: Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

    So the President of the United States of Thracia was a puppet of the big time AI teddy, Dr. Roosevelt?
    And who's that guy talking with Dr. Roosevelt? Is it the chief that doesn't want to answer the question of Gesicht's mechanic?

    Brando's attempt of giving them the data was so sad, the video of his family. Brando's wife doesn't seem robot to me. Is she a human?
    Are Robots allowed to marry Humans in this story? Well they are allowed to adopt human orphans.

    Gesicht's memory was tampered huh?
    Is it because he investigated or discovered something before? Was it the chief who's responsible of the tampering.

    And Brau immitating the old guy that says "It'll 500 Zeus." Is he trolling or something?

    About the the pictures Gesicht and Helena had from their trip to Spain. They say it's too many for them and that they should not be relaxing because they went there for Gesicht's training as well not just for vacation. Maybe someone else was responsible for those.

    Hmm so much mysteries.

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