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Thread: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Right, the last couple of chapters where everyone has been connected via the Kyuubi's chakra. It's the same as how the Alliance was all able to see Naruto's memories and such without him actively showing them. And how they saw the events of the first summit without Hashirama showing them. It's pretty much an expansion on the Kyuubi's hatred sensing.
    Can anyone else accomplish the same? Distribute such a large amount of chakra, personalize it to each individual, and lastly, communicate with them through sheer thoughts?

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Can anyone else accomplish the same? Distribute such a large amount of chakra, personalize it to each individual, and lastly, communicate with them through sheer thoughts?
    There's a difference between whether someone could do the same, and whether someone has done the same. None of those things individually are unique to Naruto, they've been shown done or implied done by others. The only near unique feat there is the first two together, due to Naruto being the only person with said opportunities at that time.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    There's a difference between whether someone could do the same, and whether someone has done the same. None of those things individually are unique to Naruto, they've been shown done or implied done by others. The only near unique feat there is the first two together, due to Naruto being the only person with said opportunities at that time.
    There's someone who accomplished such a feat? Who?

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Except that he's able to read everyone's mind and thoughts, as we've seen in the last couple of chapters.
    And as we have seen in the last couple of chapters, everyone is able to read others' mind and thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    Finally, no one has answered my questions: Why is Bee reading Obito's mind since their chakra are connected through Hachibi? Why is Sasuke not reading Obito's mind since they clashed? Why isn't Minato reading Obito's memory? Why is Naruto pulling the chakra and talking at the same time to Obito while Obito is doing nothing?
    Because Naruto and Bee are jinchuuriki? Naruto was able to grab on to the chakra thanks to the bijuu chakra he was given, and he's able to talk to Tobi because others were helping Naruto pull out the chakra. It has nothing to do with Rinnegan, secret of ninjutsu, whatever else one might think.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    And as we have seen in the last couple of chapters, everyone is able to read others' mind and thoughts.


    Because Naruto and Bee are jinchuuriki? Naruto was able to grab on to the chakra thanks to the bijuu chakra he was given, and he's able to talk to Tobi because others were helping Naruto pull out the chakra. It has nothing to do with Rinnegan, secret of ninjutsu, whatever else one might think.
    Ino's Shintenshin?

    He brought up a theory which may or may not be true. Don't go around and post "factual" statements as if you know what exactly is going on.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    There's someone who accomplished such a feat? Who?
    Distributing chakra? Anyone can do that with good enough control. Tsunade and Sakura would be examples of such.

    Personalizing chakra to an individual? Likely the same as above, given the mechanics. The Kyuubi has actually done so, and it implied that Minato and Kushina could do so too.

    Communicate through sheer thought? Um, Ino and her clan, Nagato, the whole Communication Squad of the Alliance, Katsuya, any Jinchuuriki with another.

    Like I said, the first two together is really the only unique feat, since before Minato's revival, Naruto was the only one with both the ability to personalize and a massive amount of chakra available to grant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    He brought up a theory which may or may not be true. Don't go around and post "factual" statements as if you know what exactly is going on.
    It's a theory with nothing behind it. There's nothing at all to suggest that the Rikudou Sennin had such an ability, or that he "learnt" by trying and felling. Mind reading isn't an unique ability, and we were told the source of ninjutsu: The Shinju's fruit.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Distributing chakra? Anyone can do that with good enough control. Tsunade and Sakura would be examples of such.

    Personalizing chakra to an individual? Likely the same as above, given the mechanics. The Kyuubi has actually done so, and it implied that Minato and Kushina could do so too.

    Communicate through sheer thought? Um, Ino and her clan, Nagato, the whole Communication Squad of the Alliance, Katsuya, any Jinchuuriki with another.

    Like I said, the first two together is really the only unique feat, since before Minato's revival, Naruto was the only one with both the ability to personalize and a massive amount of chakra available to grant.

    It's a theory with nothing behind it. There's nothing at all to suggest that the Rikudou Sennin had such an ability, or that he "learnt" by trying and felling. Mind reading isn't an unique ability, and we were told the source of ninjutsu: The Shinju's fruit.
    You're missing the quantity of distributing it. That's why he's special.

    Kurama implied that he's the only one who can modify the chakra according to how skilled he's become.

    They use special techniques for it, Naruto doesn't. That's the main idea.


    It has more behind it than your irrelevant dismissing it. There's also nothing at all that would dismiss his theory either, apart from your posts. We don't know what's true, yet. His mind reading is unique because he doesn't use techniques to do it. Like I said, this is only for the open-minded.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Ino's Shintenshin?

    He brought up a theory which may or may not be true. Don't go around and post "factual" statements as if you know what exactly is going on.
    And apparently the Kyuubi's chakra that Naruto gave everyone. Either way, Naruto's not the only one who can read others' minds and memories; others can do it as well.

    It's most likely not true. I haven't seen a decent explanation how Naruto entering Tobi's mind means he has uncovered the secret of ninjutsu (when he doesn't even understand yin and yang or kekkei genkai) or that he's closer to getting Rinnegan, especially without the eyes.

    I'm not just posting "factual" statements, but I'm also making conclusions based on what is shown. Did so6pww not say Naruto and Bee were able to get a glimpse into Tobi's mind while Minato and Sasuke were not able to? If I recall, Minato gave Naruto all of Kyuubi's chakra, no? What do Naruto and Bee have in common that they don't with Sasuke or Minato? They're jinchuuriki.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    And apparently the Kyuubi's chakra that Naruto gave everyone. Either way, Naruto's not the only one who can read others' minds and memories; others can do it as well.

    It's most likely not true. I haven't seen a decent explanation how Naruto entering Tobi's mind means he has uncovered the secret of ninjutsu (when he doesn't even understand yin and yang or kekkei genkai) or that he's closer to getting Rinnegan, especially without the eyes.

    I'm not just posting "factual" statements, but I'm also making conclusions based on what is shown. Did so6pww not say Naruto and Bee were able to get a glimpse into Tobi's mind while Minato and Sasuke were not able to? If I recall, Minato gave Naruto all of Kyuubi's chakra, no? What do Naruto and Bee have in common that they don't with Sasuke or Minato? They're jinchuuriki.
    Naruto is the only one who can read others' minds without using techniques, as far as I've gathered.

    And maybe you won't get it. But it doesn't mean it's true or not. We won't know until the end.

    Most of your conclusions on this matter aren't backed up by facts, and therefore you're not credible to dismiss his theory because your conclusion is on the similar level of truth as is his theory. On that Jin part, I agree.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Thanks to chakra sharing, he can. Weren't other ninjas also reading others' minds without using techniques? If you're talking about him getting into Tobi's mind, then I admit I don't understand that either. Didn't someone say it's because Tobi having the KYuubi's chakra come out and Naruto latching onto it, being the Kyuubi jinchuuriki?

    Then show me examples or prove that the theory is feasible. Entering Tobi's mind doesn't make sense, given that Nagato wasn't able to do the same despite Rinnegan. How would Naruto even be able to uncover the secret of ninjutsu?

    What conclusions? Him not understanding yin and yang or kekkei genkai so he's not likely to uncover the secret of ninjutsu? That's a fact because it happened in the manga, when Kakashi was teaching Naruto how to use wind element. Needing Sharingan for Rinnegan? Manga has stated and proven so. Even Madara, with EMS and Hashirama's DNA, was unable to get Rinnegan until his death or right before his death.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman
    Can anyone else accomplish the same? Distribute such a large amount of chakra, personalize it to each individual, and lastly, communicate with them through sheer thoughts?
    Kurama. He can distribute his chakra to other people, he can personalize it to each individual (he did it with Kakashi before Naruto ever attempted it) and he can communicate telepathically with other Bijuu and their jinchuuriki.

    It's safe to say any other Bijuu could do the same. These feats are being performed by Naruto thanks to him using Kurama's chakra as a medium.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    First, assuming that because Minato was too busy feeling sorry for himself to notice Naruto feeling him that it means something makes no sense. By that reasoning, the same could be claimed of the Alliance after they saw all of Naruto's memories without his permission. Or when they saw Hashirama's.
    Well, you could say that Minato was busy feeling sorry for himself, but would it not be too convenient for yourself and your argument. First, you forget that Naruto can sense others emotions. This is a feat that he has been showing since he took KM chakra. Second, as I mentioned earlier, reading someone heart is not trivial feat that anyone can do unless their memories are flowing freely as in Naruto's with Ino at first, and with all Konoha 10 later. Thus, it could be that Minato could not read Naruto's heart because he does not know.

    In order to understand, you need to see that when two people communicates, they can hide intel or disclose it. If you are not hiding your intel, anyone who know it. This is the case where Obito's memory were flowing to Naruto as soon as their chakra got connected. It is the same as when Naruto's memories were flowing through the chakra he gave to his friends. However, when someone intentionally chose to not disclose his memory, how can you even get access to it without using some special Jutsu. Basically, you have to parse their memory to see specific intel. This is why I showed in the OP where Yamanaka guy is searching in the dead Pain memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Secondly, no. The toad example has nothing to do with this situation. There was a clear physical reason as to why he couldn't connect, because the Kyuubi's chakra was poisonous at that time.
    One reason I stop creating thread on this forum is that you guys like to reject Naruto's feats by cheer empty claims. Where was it mentioned that the toad could not connect because Kyuubi's chakra is poisonous? Basically, in order for Naruto to use chakra coming from Pa, that chakra has to be connected to Naruto's chakra circulatory system. This can be deduced by seeing how chakra circulates in a Shinobi's body. However, Kyuubi was also connected to the same link. Thus both Pa and Kyuubi had to share the link with Naruto's own chakra. This is where Kyuubi refused to accept Pa and rejected him. Here you can see how Kyuubi rejected him violently with a roar. Basically, even if it was not explained it was a battle in Naruto's inside just as when Killer Bee was trying to help Naruto.

    1. Kyuubi roar here and thrown Pa. Pretty funny to think Pa was projected because the chakra is poisonous!
    Spoiler show


    2. Pa explained that Kyuubi projected him, not that the chakra is poisonous.
    Spoiler show


    3. Kyuubi himself and Naruto are arguing on How Kyuubi hindered Pa. Kyuubi explained that he did not want to share room.
    Spoiler show


    While we cannot explain everything with logic, Kishi has established some of the logic in a very strong manner. Naruto can use Kyuubi chakra because Kyuubi chakra is connected to his own chakra circulatory system, i.e, his heart. Kabuto even said it when he tried to kill Naruto. Pa also needed to connect to the same system, but Kyuubi refused. Basically, whenever Naruto uses Kyuubi chakra, it is because Naruto accepted to use it. Otherwise, Kyuubi's chakra cannot flow to Naruto because Naruto can stop the flow. This is shown in the manga as a negotiation between the two. Only when Naruto loses control, Kyuubi can sneak in the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    And Itachi didn't have to strengthen anything. He was already in Naruto's mind, with the genjutsu already in motion. Trying to make it out as if mentally defeating Obito is some feat is ridiculous. Obito has the mentality of a child. Overcoming his will would not have been any sort of challenge.
    Genjutsu is a manipulation of the chakra flow in a shinobis by confusing the chakra network to cause illusion. Everytime someone escape the Genjutsu, it means that he was able to provide stronger chakra circulation so that the genjutsu caster cannot take control of them. In the Gaara retrieval arc, when Itachi (actually Itachi-Yura) placed Naruto under genjutsu, Naruto release an amount of chakra to disperse the genjutsu. At that time, Itachi's crow started to disperse from Naruto's mind, until Itachi strengthen the genjutsu again to overtake Naruto.

    This is canon, and I will not waste my time trying to bring the pages.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    And thirdly, no, nothing is being overlooked since this is not the first time something like this has happen. We literally already seen it happen with Naruto's memories and Hashirama's memories about the first summit.
    Well, you are saying that because you don't know Ino has to enter Hashirama's mind using Yamanaka mind reading, then, transfer Hashirama's memory to the SA using their communication Jutsu. Next, you forgot that Naruto has his chakra inside Ino that is connected to Ino's chakra as shown in the chapter "Connected". Basically, anyone with Naruto's chakra can receive all Naruto's latent memories - that is what Naruto is thinking about. This is due to the fact that the chakra inside them acts just like a Kage Bushin as explained by Tobirama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    As for your "question"? Because none of those other characters are connected like Naruto is to Obito. You seem to have forgotten the part where Naruto was able to pull out the other Bijuus because he had a potion of each of their chakra inside of him, which linked when they clashed. That (and the fact that he's the main character) is why it's Naruto.
    What do you think the SA are pulling out of Obito? They are all connoted to Naruto's chakra and the same chakra is connected to Obito. This is the reason they can help Naruto in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Right, the last couple of chapters where everyone has been connected via the Kyuubi's chakra. It's the same as how the Alliance was all able to see Naruto's memories and such without him actively showing them. And how they saw the events of the first summit without Hashirama showing them. It's pretty much an expansion on the Kyuubi's hatred sensing.
    I will stop arguing here since you are not even using any logic.

    First, you fail to see Hashirama's memory was shown because Ino was reading and transferring it to the rest through mind reading. Then, she is using the same communication technique the Headquarter was using to give the intel to others.

    Second, you fail to see that Naruto has evolved. First, he was doing communication subconsciously, i.e, he did not even intend to, but it happened because his chakra was sealed inside Ino. Next, Naruto was doing the communication intentionally with all Konoha 10 without ino. What you ignore here is that Naruto is sending intel through chakra connection, not by actually having his hand connected to them.

    If you really want to see open-mindedly how Naruto was in control of Obito mind, read chapter 654 from the start to where Kishi show the real Naruto in BM. You will see how everything Happened in Obito's mind while Naruto was pulling the chakra. Why do you think Obito seemed to not have moved from his position? My answer is that he really thought Naruto was inside his mind and spent all his time fighting a projection of Naruto while the real one was beating him from the outside.

  14. #28
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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    You're missing the quantity of distributing it. That's why he's special.

    Kurama implied that he's the only one who can modify the chakra according to how skilled he's become.

    They use special techniques for it, Naruto doesn't. That's the main idea.


    It has more behind it than your irrelevant dismissing it. There's also nothing at all that would dismiss his theory either, apart from your posts. We don't know what's true, yet. His mind reading is unique because he doesn't use techniques to do it. Like I said, this is only for the open-minded.
    No I didn't. I outright point out right below that because of the massive amount of chakra Naruto has is part of what made the feat unique.

    No it didn't. It claimed that Naruto was the only one who could link to it's chakra, because of Kushina's blood and being a Jinchuuriki. Passing chakra on the otherhand, was never attibuted solely to Naruto. The Kyuubi both mentioned itself as capable and Minato. Obviously Kushina would also be capable of it given she has the exact same qualities that allow Naruto to do it. And considering medical ninjutsus grant others the chakra of the user, it would likely be the same there.

    If by "technique" you mean involves chakra, then the same is true of Naruto. If by "technique" you mean involving handsigns or such, then no. Like Naruto, there were no handsigns or anything used to employ the telepathy.

    There's plenty to dismiss it. First off, what does telepathy or sensing feeling have to do with the Rikudou Sennin or ninjutsu? Where was it even implied that the Rikudou Sennin learnt stuff by trying and feeling? There's a clear disconnect between what he brings up and how it's suppose to connect to the Rikudou Sennin, via random assumptions that have no basis in the series. It would be one thing if he wanted to apply the fact that Naruto could manipulate the chakra of the other Bijuus at will to his potential as the next Rikudou Sennin, that's something that makes sense and has actual implications from the series. But bringing up a random ability, something not unique and never connected to the Rikudou Sennin before or since, as some sort of proof doesn't work. Espiecally when Kishi has already told us what was special about the Rikudou Sennin and where he got his powers from.

    Spoiler: so6pww;3597510 show

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    No I didn't. I outright point out right below that because of the massive amount of chakra Naruto has is part of what made the feat unique.

    No it didn't. It claimed that Naruto was the only one who could link to it's chakra, because of Kushina's blood and being a Jinchuuriki. Passing chakra on the otherhand, was never attibuted solely to Naruto. The Kyuubi both mentioned itself as capable and Minato. Obviously Kushina would also be capable of it given she has the exact same qualities that allow Naruto to do it. And considering medical ninjutsus grant others the chakra of the user, it would likely be the same there.

    If by "technique" you mean involves chakra, then the same is true of Naruto. If by "technique" you mean involving handsigns or such, then no. Like Naruto, there were no handsigns or anything used to employ the telepathy.

    There's plenty to dismiss it. First off, what does telepathy or sensing feeling have to do with the Rikudou Sennin or ninjutsu? Where was it even implied that the Rikudou Sennin learnt stuff by trying and feeling? There's a clear disconnect between what he brings up and how it's suppose to connect to the Rikudou Sennin, via random assumptions that have no basis in the series. It would be one thing if he wanted to apply the fact that Naruto could manipulate the chakra of the other Bijuus at will to his potential as the next Rikudou Sennin, that's something that makes sense and has actual implications from the series. But bringing up a random ability, something not unique and never connected to the Rikudou Sennin before or since, as some sort of proof doesn't work. Espiecally when Kishi has already told us what was special about the Rikudou Sennin and where he got his powers from.

    Spoiler: so6pww;3597510 show
    I you did, you wouldn't bring any argument concerning the matter, let alone Sakura or Tsunade.

    Modifying and sharing chakra isn't the same. We're discussing about personalizing it to each individual which you said it was already done. The same page says that only Naruto could do it. Try not to digress from the original point.

    Exactly. He's reading them through chakra alone. There was no special handsigns for techniques and whatnot.

    We don't know. But that's the exactly the point of not knowing, you can't dismiss something because you think it's not true. That's why it's called a theory. It's irrelevant whether he thinks it's "evidence" or not, neither of us is right or wrong until proven by the manga. Any theory about Rikudou is solid simply becaus eof the reason he's so unknown and a mystery.

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    Re: Has Naruto Uncovered the Secret of Ninjutsu Just like Rikudo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Kurama. He can distribute his chakra to other people, he can personalize it to each individual (he did it with Kakashi before Naruto ever attempted it) and he can communicate telepathically with other Bijuu and their jinchuuriki.

    It's safe to say any other Bijuu could do the same. These feats are being performed by Naruto thanks to him using Kurama's chakra as a medium.
    Wrong. He can pass the chakra thanks to Naruto, not the other way around. While Kurama succeeded in handing and modifying the chakra to Kakashi, that's nothing compared to giving it to the whole alliance and at the same time adjusting it to them, as Kurama so clearly implied.

    It's not safe to say because it's wrong. Naruto can perform this because it's, well, him. And Kurama passes his chakra because the medium is Naruto, not his chakra or him. I believe this page says it all: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/617/7

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