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Thread: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

  1. #31
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    He was immobilized for a time because he was sick, exhausted, and close to death. Unless Sasuke uses kirin near the end, Itachi shouldn't stay down for too long. Itachi could find a way to prevent Sasuke from setting up Kirin, since Sasuke needs to heat up the air and all that.

    We still dunno if Itachi's Susano'o can damage Sasuke's. Is the mirror an automatic defense or does Itachi have to actively move it? Itachi has seemingly made do with no more than one clone per fight - whether against Sasuke, Kakashi, or Kakashi and Naruto. Doesn't seem like he'll waste his chakra like that, or make it obvious that he used a clone.
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J
    He was immobilized for a time because he was sick, exhausted, and close to death. Unless Sasuke uses kirin near the end, Itachi shouldn't stay down for too long. Itachi could find a way to prevent Sasuke from setting up Kirin, since Sasuke needs to heat up the air and all that.
    Again, how?

    How does he stop any Enton from being activated? How does he stop Sasuke from shooting a Gouryuuka into the sky?

    I'm genuinely curious. As for him not being down as long, I'm calling BS on that. That Kirin was powerful enough to destroy the surrounding battlefield even after Itachi had tanked the brunt of the blow. The hideout and the hilltop underneath it was pulverized. No way in hell a healthy Itachi would've just been okay with his Kirin being vaporized. The kinetic force would make him face plant just like before. When Sasuke was in Susanoo and he was slammed into the ground by Obito, causing his Susanoo to disappear completely, it didn't matter that Sasuke wasn't exhausted, but he was still down for the count, trying to recover from the force of the blow.

    Quote Quote:
    We still dunno if Itachi's Susano'o can damage Sasuke's. Is the mirror an automatic defense or does Itachi have to actively move it? Itachi has seemingly made do with no more than one clone per fight - whether against Sasuke, Kakashi, or Kakashi and Naruto. Doesn't seem like he'll waste his chakra like that, or make it obvious that he used a clone.
    And in all of those fights his opponents weren't using their battlefield-razing jutsu. Sasuke had no Susanoo or Enton. Naruto wasn't using his chakra shroud. Kakashi didn't have his army of dogs on the battlefield or Kamui. Itachi's clones were effective because numbers were on his side, allowing him to go for strategies that surprise and confuse his foes. If the foe has a perfect defense up clones won't matter. Especially when you can continue attacking inside of that perfect defense, even in 360 degree waves.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    If intelligence was the only thing that Itachi had, he wouldn't be considered a winner by many. He exhibited extraordinary display of fighting skills even by high standards when he was already sick in an unfathomable state of NOT WANTING TO FIGHT every time. The ones who can put two and two together don't have any hard time imagining what kind of beast he would be if we removed the anomalies which suppressed his overall abilities.

  4. #34
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman
    If intelligence was the only thing that Itachi had, he wouldn't be considered a winner by many.
    No one's saying that's all he has. I'm saying that what he has isn't enough to allow him to beat Sasuke. He has everything Sasuke has. Sasuke has everything he has. Only more.

    If Itachi's an iPhone 5, then Sasuke's an iPhone 5S. Longer battery life (chakra), superior processor (sheer power). Same size screen (sharingan), but it's better.

    Quote Quote:
    He exhibited extraordinary display of fighting skills even by high standards when he was already sick in an unfathomable state of NOT WANTING TO FIGHT every time.
    All of which amounts to dick if you can't accurately determine what level of strength or speed he'd have when he DOES want to fight. This amazing Itachi you're thinking of doesn't exist. He's a phantom.

    Quote Quote:
    The ones who can put two and two together don't have any hard time imagining what kind of beast he would be if we removed the anomalies which suppressed his overall abilities.
    Which is the increasingly hilarious problem: your imaginations are far too vibrant. You're assuming he's gonna pull off something leagues more impressive than what he could do against Sasuke when they last fought. The literal only canon thing we do know is that he could have easily dodged that one shuriken booby trap. That's it. that's as far as it goes.

    No Sasuke class stamina.
    No Sasuke class destructive attacks
    No Bijuu-sized Susanoo manifestation (not for any length of time at least)

    You're all banking on the possibility that Itachi's genius will somehow grant him a victory, or that maybe, just maybe, the Totsuka can negate Sasuke's Susanoo. And who knows? You could be right. But you're more likely wrong.
    Last edited by ninjabot; November 23, 2013 at 09:48 PM.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    No one's saying that's all he has. I'm saying that what he has isn't enough to allow him to beat Sasuke. He has everything Sasuke has. Sasuke has everything he has. Only more.

    If Itachi's an iPhone 5, then Sasuke's an iPhone 5S. Longer battery life (chakra), superior processor (sheer power). Same size screen (sharingan), but it's better.



    All of which amounts to dick if you can't accurately determine what level of strength or speed he'd have when he DOES want to fight. This amazing Itachi you're thinking of doesn't exist. He's a phantom.



    Which is the increasingly hilarious problem: your imaginations are far too vibrant. You're assuming he's gonna pull off something leagues more impressive than what he could do against Sasuke when they last fought. The literal only canon thing we do know is that he could have easily dodged that one shuriken booby trap. That's it. that's as far as it goes.

    No Sasuke class stamina.
    No Sasuke class destructive attacks
    No Bijuu-sized Susanoo manifestation (not for any length of time at least)

    You're all banking on the possibility that Itachi's genius will somehow grant him a victory, or that maybe, just maybe, the Totsuka can negate Sasuke's Susanoo. And who knows? You could be right. But you're more likely wrong.
    That's an opinion, not a fact. Also, if quantity was a winning factor, for an example, Sasuke would feel superior to Naruto, which he doesn't.

    The problem is that you forgot the original poster's idea. If you remove everything that CLEARLY decreased his abilities, Sasuke, and almost anyone else for that matter would be in the wind.

    My imagination is limited to what I see according to manga. My assumptions are based on the actions Itachi exhibited during the minimum panels he got, while sick, ambitiously dead and fucking blind.

    So Sasuke has his own class now? That's what's hilarious. Stamina is the only thing that would get Sasuke a win for him, if there was any possibility for that, but since Itachi is pretty much better in everything else, I don't see that's a problem.

    I'm not banking on anything. Itachi was ALWAYS holding back, ALWAYS. Add sickness to that, add pacifism, and he STILL came on top in majority of the displays of his skills we were shown. By removing that, he's far beyond Sasuke, Naruto or anyone else, except maybe Madara and Hashirama.
    Last edited by Roman; November 24, 2013 at 06:01 AM.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Quote:
    That's an opinion, not a fact.
    The hell it is.

    Quote Quote:
    Also, if quantity was a winning factor, for an example, Sasuke would feel superior to Naruto, which he doesn't.
    It's a winning factor when both opponents are of comparable skillsets. The more similar two opponents are, the more likely the one small difference between them will determine who comes out on top. If you can block all of my attacks with your own attacks, but I can do MORE of those attacks, you're gonna get tired before me if you keep countering with your own attacks. And that's pretty much what it'll come down to.

    Quote Quote:
    The problem is that you forgot the original poster's idea. If you remove everything that CLEARLY decreased his abilities, Sasuke, and almost anyone else for that matter would be in the wind.
    Oh no. I understand the idea. The question is: if Itachi wasn't holding back, and wasn't sick, and wanted Sasuke dead, could he defeat Sasuke. And the answer is a resounding, ear-splitting, earth-shattering, bone-shaking "fuck no he can't." See, the problem with that little "All Out" stipulation is Sasuke is allowed to go all out as well.

    All Out Itachi vs. Hebi Sasuke All Out? Itachi wins easily.

    All Out Itachi vs. Taka Sasuke with only Amaterasu, All Out? Itachi still wins easily.

    All Out Itachi vs. MS Sasuke (at the level he was after fighting Danzou) All Out? Itachi barely wins, and ONLY if the Totsuka can harm his Susanoo in any capacity.

    All Out Itachi vs. EMS Sasuke All Out? Sasuke wins decisively.

    All Out Itachi vs. EMS Sasuke at his current level in the manga going All Out? Sasuke wins with little effort.

    Quote Quote:
    My imagination is limited to what I see according to manga. My assumptions are based on the actions Itachi exhibited during the minimum panels he got, while sick, ambitiously dead and fucking blind.
    And what you saw was him struggle against a Sasuke who was LEAGUES inferior to the current Sasuke. You don't see me claiming that Sasuke would've easily defeated Killerbee if he wasn't holding back or still injured from facing Itachi do you? What would I even BASE that shit on? Fandom. That's it.

    That's where this "Itachi holding back=Itachi is 100x more powerful than he showed against Sasuke" bullshit is coming from. Fandom. Just fandom. Not implications from the manga. Not anything you've canonically seen. Just fandom. JUST fandom.

    That's what you're doing with this Itachi stuff. Assuming that just because he was sick and holding back, that he has this unseen store of power that was outrageously superior to what he showed already (why the hell didn't he show us this when he was a fucking immortal?). I stand by my reasoning that what we saw was Itachi at potentially 70% of his maximum potential.

    Quote Quote:
    So Sasuke has his own class now?
    Power wise, yup. He's the current most powerful un-enhanced (no genetic experiments, no bijuu) ninja in the manga. Well, living that is.

    Quote Quote:
    That's what's hilarious. Stamina is the only thing that would get Sasuke a win for him, if there was any possibility for that, but since Itachi is pretty much better in everything else, I don't see that's a problem.
    Better at everything you say? Let's look, shall we?

    Itachi has Amaterasu? Sasuke has Amaterasu as well... and Enton. Point for Sasuke.

    Crows? Sasuke has hawks. And snakes. GIANT snakes. Point for Sasuke.

    Susanoo? Sasuke has a bigger, stronger Susanoo, that makes his Enton cost even less to use. Itachi's got the Kagami and Totsuka, which are better against other foes, just not Sasuke. I'm gonna give it a draw, since Sasuke has the superior Susanoo, but Itachi has the superior Susanoo weaponry.

    Genjutsu? Itachi's got him beat on this, no doubt. In the sense that his is superior. Not that it can defeat Sasuke. Cause they can't. Point Itachi

    Taijutsu? Sasuke. Why? Because every Taijutsu match we've seen Itachi in has been combined with Genjutsu and clones. The only example we truly have is of Itachi vs. Killerbee, where he was able to deflect Bee's swords without being struck, but Sasuke couldn't. The difference? Sasuke wasn't using a Sharingan. Itachi was. Point Sasuke.

    Ninjutsu? Don't even. Point Sasuke. I oughtta give him two points for this shit.

    Wow you're right! Itachi's so far ahead of Sasuke it's not even funny!
    Quote Quote:
    I'm not banking on anything. Itachi was ALWAYS holding back, ALWAYS. Add sickness to that, add pacifism, and he STILL came on top in majority of the displays of his skills we were shown. By removing that, he's far beyond Sasuke, Naruto or anyone else, except maybe Madara and Hashirama.
    No he isn't. In all seriousness, the most you should be able to delude yourself into believing is that he MAY be able to cast... one... or two more Amaterasu. And keep his Susanoo active for 10 minutes rather than 5. Potentially make one more clone than usual. None of that, in any capacity allows him to put up a genuine fight against Sasuke at his current level. Itachi's beyond Sasuke skill and intelligence wise, I agree. That's fine. He just can't beat him.

    And that's what the thread is asking. The answer is no. Not anymore. Not realistically.
    Last edited by ninjabot; November 24, 2013 at 08:36 PM.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    The hell it is.



    It's a winning factor when both opponents are of comparable skillsets. The more similar two opponents are, the more likely the one small difference between them will determine who comes out on top. If you can block all of my attacks with your own attacks, but I can do MORE of those attacks, you're gonna get tired before me if you keep countering with your own attacks. And that's pretty much what it'll come down to.



    Oh no. I understand the idea. The question is: if Itachi wasn't holding back, and wasn't sick, and wanted Sasuke dead, could he defeat Sasuke. And the answer is a resounding, ear-splitting, earth-shattering, bone-shaking "fuck no he can't." See, the problem with that little "All Out" stipulation is Sasuke is allowed to go all out as well.

    All Out Itachi vs. Hebi Sasuke All Out? Itachi wins easily.

    All Out Itachi vs. Taka Sasuke with only Amaterasu, All Out? Itachi still wins easily.

    All Out Itachi vs. MS Sasuke (at the level he was after fighting Danzou) All Out? Itachi barely wins, and ONLY if the Totsuka can harm his Susanoo in any capacity.

    All Out Itachi vs. EMS Sasuke All Out? Sasuke wins decisively.

    All Out Itachi vs. EMS Sasuke at his current level in the manga going All Out? Sasuke wins with little effort.



    And what you saw was him struggle against a Sasuke who was LEAGUES inferior to the current Sasuke. You don't see me claiming that Sasuke would've easily defeated Killerbee if he wasn't holding back or still injured from facing Itachi do you? What would I even BASE that shit on? Fandom. That's it.

    That's where this "Itachi holding back=Itachi is 100x more powerful than he showed against Sasuke" bullshit is coming from. Fandom. Just fandom. Not implications from the manga. Not anything you've canonically seen. Just fandom. JUST fandom.

    That's what you're doing with this Itachi stuff. Assuming that just because he was sick and holding back, that he has this unseen store of power that was outrageously superior to what he showed already (why the hell didn't he show us this when he was a fucking immortal?). I stand by my reasoning that what we saw was Itachi at potentially 70% of his maximum potential.



    Power wise, yup. He's the current most powerful un-enhanced (no genetic experiments, no bijuu) ninja in the manga. Well, living that is.



    Better at everything you say? Let's look, shall we?

    Itachi has Amaterasu? Sasuke has Amaterasu as well... and Enton. Point for Sasuke.

    Crows? Sasuke has hawks. And snakes. GIANT snakes. Point for Sasuke.

    Susanoo? Sasuke has a bigger, stronger Susanoo, that makes his Enton cost even less to use. Itachi's got the Kagami and Totsuka, which are better against other foes, just not Sasuke. I'm gonna give it a draw, since Sasuke has the superior Susanoo, but Itachi has the superior Susanoo weaponry.

    Genjutsu? Itachi's got him beat on this, no doubt. In the sense that his is superior. Not that it can defeat Sasuke. Cause they can't. Point Itachi

    Taijutsu? Sasuke. Why? Because every Taijutsu match we've seen Itachi in has been combined with Genjutsu and clones. The only example we truly have is of Itachi vs. Killerbee, where he was able to deflect Bee's swords without being struck, but Sasuke couldn't. The difference? Sasuke wasn't using a Sharingan. Itachi was. Point Sasuke.

    Ninjutsu? Don't even. Point Sasuke. I oughtta give him two points for this shit.

    Wow you're right! Itachi's so far ahead of Sasuke it's not even funny!


    No he isn't. In all seriousness, the most you should be able to delude yourself into believing is that he MAY be able to cast... one... or two more Amaterasu. And keep his Susanoo active for 10 minutes rather than 5. Potentially make one more clone than usual. None of that, in any capacity allows him to put up a genuine fight against Sasuke at his current level. Itachi's beyond Sasuke skill and intelligence wise, I agree. That's fine. He just can't beat him.

    And that's what the thread is asking. The answer is no. Not anymore. Not realistically.
    Sure it is.

    You can't block something if you're too slow to do it.

    Struggling doesn't have anything to do with the fight. If he wanted to end him, he would do it, while struggling.

    Totsuka is the ultimate weapon he has and with it, he's probably invincible, but he doesn't need it. I'd say he doesn't even need EMS to counter his EMS, which again, Itachi would have the only disadvantage with, stamina.

    Fandom? Why would it be fandom? Itachi's skills were shown in a depiction no other was. It's enough to assume my opinion a lot sooner than yours, specially after their charade between them called a fight.

    But, he is. He did everything half-assed and it was still enough to dominate. That's what we saw, it's not my opinion or my fandom. It's just how things are. There is no telling how he would perform and how much power he would have if he went all out because we don't have any evidence of it, but he would be superior to what he showed until now, and what he showed until now is extraordinary. It's only logical.

    Because of Susanoo? Sure. Without it, he's a mediocrity if you compare him to Naruto, for example.

    Like I said, quantity doesn't beat quality and variety doesn't win in overall ability. If it was the opposite, Sasuke would kick Naruto's ass without much effort, but we know it's not like that.

    Deluding one's self doesn't have anything to do with it. You're calculating how much executions of a certain technique he would be able to cast on a pure and exaggerated love for Sasuke. I could go your way and calculate how clueless Sasuke would be if Itachi used the speed of executing his techniques the way he did against Kakashi, but I won't do it since it would look like I'm downplaying Sasuke. In that sense, your calculating wouldn't mean jack. Also, you're assuming that they both would use the deadliest techniques they have in their arsenal to beat one another which may not be the case, in which situation, Itachi's intelligence comes to light. Hashirama beat Madara with a clone, and the rest is silence.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post

    Like I said, quantity doesn't beat quality and variety doesn't win in overall ability.
    It's not just the quantity that'll beat Itachi but also the quality of that quantity,Heh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Hashirama beat Madara with a clone, and the rest is silence.
    Yeah..After Madara was completley exhausted and couldn't use his Sharingan.Hashirama was still able to make a clone,He still had juice to do something.Now in this fight who has more fuel? That's right Sasuke.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Roman

    I was trying to be fair as possible with this fight, but your bias for Itachi makes it nearly impossible.

    I said that Itachi would win the first encounter against current Sasuke, but I really can't back the claim up with logic other then hype. A healthy Itachi gains stamina and better vision, nothing more. He doesn't gain more power or jutsu, and since that's the case Sasuke still have the upper hand.

    I also don't get why you continuously bring Naruto in this conversation. Are you attempting to change the topic on purpose? It's rather lame when you compare quantity and quality for this battle when Saauke has him out classed in both. Sasuke has a much bigger, and better arsenal than Itachi, so the quantity vs quality doesn't work here.

    Itach has more and better Genjutsu.
    Sasuke dominate everything else.

    Intellect won't help Itachi against another genius Uchiha, and his legendary weapons is useless against a bigger stronger Susanoo.

    Itachi only real chance to win is Tnj.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I consider the Totsuka the "sister blade" of the Kusanagi. Meaning it's no more powerful than the Kusanagi, it only works a different way. In other words, just like how the Kusanagi (which is rumored to cut through anything mind you, and is equally legendary) failed to cut through 4tk Naruto's chakra shroud... the Totsuka would fail to cut through something equally as powerful/more powerful.

    Seems like a fair assumption to me. Everything called "legendary" in this manga has failed thanks to simply being overpowered. From the Rinnegan, to the Kusanagi, to the friggin' sword of Nunoboku.
    That's your personal take on the blade. I disagree. You say its a fair assumption, I choose to make another. I don't think everything legendary has failed, I think generally its been a failure of the user; see Rinnegan and Nunoboku.


    Quote Quote:
    What large source of chakra backed him up when he activated Susanoo around Kurama? He no longer had a shroud around him, and his Susanoo didn't have any CS marks, so Juugo wasn't helping. Granted, once the Susanoo was made Naruto added his natural energy to it to allow it to harm Obito. But that didn't allow Sasuke to make it that size in the first place.
    I question this because both times he's utilised an oversized Susanoo form, he's had both Naruto and Juugo near. There wasn't any difference in appearance for the armour at any point that would suggest that there was some change in the quality of chakra, indicating Naruto adding natural energy later on. When I look at the initial formation, and the comments about two powers mixing, I come to the conclusion that Naruto's chakra was involved. If Sasuke stands up and makes a super Susanoo on his own, that would sort everything out. However, so far, the only time he's shown such a form is when he's working in tandem with someone wielding lots of chakra. I can see how you come to your conclusion, I simply have a different take on it.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    Roman

    I was trying to be fair as possible with this fight, but your bias for Itachi makes it nearly impossible.

    I said that Itachi would win the first encounter against current Sasuke, but I really can't back the claim up with logic other then hype. A healthy Itachi gains stamina and better vision, nothing more. He doesn't gain more power or jutsu, and since that's the case Sasuke still have the upper hand.

    I also don't get why you continuously bring Naruto in this conversation. Are you attempting to change the topic on purpose? It's rather lame when you compare quantity and quality for this battle when Saauke has him out classed in both. Sasuke has a much bigger, and better arsenal than Itachi, so the quantity vs quality doesn't work here.

    Itach has more and better Genjutsu.
    Sasuke dominate everything else.

    Intellect won't help Itachi against another genius Uchiha, and his legendary weapons is useless against a bigger stronger Susanoo.

    Itachi only real chance to win is Tnj.
    Of course it's bias if it's going against a character you adore.

    A healthy Itachi boost his ability in battles. You clearly don't understand the difference between pacifism and violence. If there is no hesitation in going in for the kill, Itachi would end almost every battle a lot sooner than he did as a character who doesn't want to fight and has too much of a heart.

    Naruto is just an example. Another example of people like you showing emotions when you feel Sasuke's position is being threatened, at that. If Sasuke has better overall fighting-quality than Naruto, I'll be damned. It sure does work here, you just have to be objective.

    That works with Itachi which Kishimoto created. However, when we remove everything that "bothered" him, that sounds hilarious.

    Of course it will. Intellect helps in every situation, Shikamaru should be the prime example of that.

    And I'm the one with delusions.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility
    That's your personal take on the blade. I disagree. You say its a fair assumption, I choose to make another. I don't think everything legendary has failed, I think generally its been a failure of the user; see Rinnegan and Nunoboku.
    Disagree based on what? The Totsuka is called the perfect counter to the Kusanagi, but in no capacity is it every claimed to be superior. One cuts anything, the other seals anything (if it can pierce it). If it can't pierce it's target, it can't absorb it. Disagreeing is fine, but I'd like to see what makes you disagree.

    Quote Quote:
    I question this because both times he's utilised an oversized Susanoo form, he's had both Naruto and Juugo near.
    So you're claiming that in that last scan I posted, when Sasuke began covering Kurama with his Susanoo without Naruto's knowledge, that somehow Naruto was already giving him chakra to use? And you're also claiming Juugo was potentially granting him more natural energy, despite his Susanoo not having Curse Seal markings on it?

    What's this based on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman
    You can't block something if you're too slow to do it
    That's what Susanoo is for. 1/1000th of a second instant protection from anything in Itachi's repertoire. Aswell as the the stamina to use it more than Itachi can. Speed isn't doing anything for Itachi until he learns some S/T jutsu.

    Quote Quote:
    Struggling doesn't have anything to do with the fight. If he wanted to end him, he would do it, while struggling.
    Struggling has everything to do with it when you consider that the Sasuke he was struggling against was a version of Sasuke who's incredibly inferior compared to the current Sasuke. I can't understand why you're using old Sasuke as proof that new Sasuke is still inferior to Itachi.

    Quote Quote:
    Totsuka is the ultimate weapon he has and with it, he's probably invincible, but he doesn't need it. I'd say he doesn't even need EMS to counter his EMS, which again, Itachi would have the only disadvantage with, stamina.
    Power is the other distinct advantage Sasuke has. Sasuke has the power to one-shot Itachi's strongest defense with Kirin. He also has superior ninjutsu... pretty much superior everything as far as that list I wrote goes (which is the reason you've completely ignored it rather than trying to prove each one wrong). I'll also point out, to everyone harping about how powerful the Totsuka is, that Itachi claims his Yasaka Magatama is his strongest attack. Not the Totsuka.

    [Fandom? Why would it be fandom? Itachi's skills were shown in a depiction no other was. It's enough to assume my opinion a lot sooner than yours, specially after their charade between them called a fight. [/quote]

    No it isn't, because your opinion calls for us to believe that what he showed against us was far less than half of his true potential. It'd be different if you were asking us to believe a realistic growth in his power, but you're not.

    But, he is. He did everything half-assed and it was still enough to dominate. That's what we saw, it's not my opinion or my fandom. It's just how things are. There is no telling how he would perform and how much power he would have if he went all out because we don't have any evidence of it, but he would be superior to what he showed until now, and what he showed until now is extraordinary. It's only logical.

    Enough to dominate a version of Sasuke who's far, far below the current version of Sasuke. You conveniently ignore this again. And if there's no telling how much power he would have if he were not sick, why the hell are you dead set on believing that it would grant him the power to defeat Sasuke at his current level? A Sasuke arm

    Quote Quote:
    Because of Susanoo? Sure. Without it, he's a mediocrity if you compare him to Naruto, for example.
    And here's the part where we try to derail the topic. Good sign for me, bad sign for you.

    Quote Quote:
    Like I said, quantity doesn't beat quality and variety doesn't win in overall ability. If it was the opposite, Sasuke would kick Naruto's ass without much effort, but we know it's not like that.
    Except he has both. Look at the list that I know you saw (since you chose not to address it). Every jutsu in his repertoire is superior to Itachi's. Every technique that they both share, Sasuke has the superior one (except for Genjutsu). Sasuke's flat out physically superior as well thanks to his chakra reserves. And I'm actually glad you brought up Naruto, because he's yet another ninja that Itachi's "technicaly" superior than, who would completely shit on him thanks to simply being too powerful for him to compete with. Just like Sasuke.

    Quote Quote:
    Deluding one's self doesn't have anything to do with it. You're calculating how much executions of a certain technique he would be able to cast on a pure and exaggerated love for Sasuke.
    It's based on a realistic understanding of how one's chakra works in this manga. Sasuke, who has no illnesses, already had a larger chakra reserve than Itachi, and had all of Itachi's jutsu, was using more MS jutsu than Itachi was, but even then it wasn't by much. If we are to assume that Itachi's stamina levels would be equal to Sasuke's (at that time) if he wasn't sick, that means he could only use as many MS jutsu as Sasuke used against say... Danzou. Meaning if he could, Sasuke would STILL overwhelm him when it comes to sheer stamina because in the current battle, even before Naruto has added his own chakra to him Sasuke has revealed godly amounts of MS usage (12 consecutive Enton against White Zetsu without even breaking a sweat!!!).

    Itachi can't compete with that.

    Quote Quote:
    I could go your way and calculate how clueless Sasuke would be if Itachi used the speed of executing his techniques the way he did against Kakashi, but I won't do it since it would look like I'm downplaying Sasuke. In that sense, your calculating wouldn't mean jack. Also, you're assuming that they both would use the deadliest techniques they have in their arsenal to beat one another which may not be the case, in which situation, Itachi's intelligence comes to light. Hashirama beat Madara with a clone, and the rest is silence.
    No, you won't use that because you know I'll simply remind you that nothing Itachi can do moves faster than Sasuke's activation of Susanoo. As for "assuming they'd both use their deadliest techniques", what the hell do you think "All Out" means? It means no restraint. Full bloodlust. Kill Mode.

    And you're right. Hashirama beat an exhausted, Sharingan-less Madara with a clone. Who's gonna be exhausted first in this fight though? Sasuke, or Itachi?

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Sasuke maybe my favorite character, but with the way I feel about this manga it isn't saying much. So that's one less excuse you have.

    Boost what abilites? You really need to quit with the pacifism crap, the guy choose to be a shinobi for crying out loud.(-2 excuses)

    Sasuke's position? Sasuke does have better over all fighting quality than Naruto, that's shouldn't even be a question.

    There's only two thing that effected him, that task is very easy to fix

    When facing another genius? Shikamaru status became irrelevant. Why do you think shika was forced to face hidan, because he's the only member of akatsuki shika could beat with suck a limited skill set.

    Not delusions, just denial.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Disagree based on what? The Totsuka is called the perfect counter to the Kusanagi, but in no capacity is it every claimed to be superior. One cuts anything, the other seals anything (if it can pierce it). If it can't pierce it's target, it can't absorb it. Disagreeing is fine, but I'd like to see what makes you disagree.
    Just throwing this out there. The Sword of Totsuka being the perfect counter to the Kusanagi Sword is a very popular mistranslation. In truth, it's a variant of the Kusanagi Sword.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    That's what Susanoo is for. 1/1000th of a second instant protection from anything in Itachi's repertoire. Aswell as the the stamina to use it more than Itachi can. Speed isn't doing anything for Itachi until he learns some S/T jutsu.



    Struggling has everything to do with it when you consider that the Sasuke he was struggling against was a version of Sasuke who's incredibly inferior compared to the current Sasuke. I can't understand why you're using old Sasuke as proof that new Sasuke is still inferior to Itachi.



    Power is the other distinct advantage Sasuke has. Sasuke has the power to one-shot Itachi's strongest defense with Kirin. He also has superior ninjutsu... pretty much superior everything as far as that list I wrote goes (which is the reason you've completely ignored it rather than trying to prove each one wrong). I'll also point out, to everyone harping about how powerful the Totsuka is, that Itachi claims his Yasaka Magatama is his strongest attack. Not the Totsuka.

    [Fandom? Why would it be fandom? Itachi's skills were shown in a depiction no other was. It's enough to assume my opinion a lot sooner than yours, specially after their charade between them called a fight.

    No it isn't, because your opinion calls for us to believe that what he showed against us was far less than half of his true potential. It'd be different if you were asking us to believe a realistic growth in his power, but you're not.

    But, he is. He did everything half-assed and it was still enough to dominate. That's what we saw, it's not my opinion or my fandom. It's just how things are. There is no telling how he would perform and how much power he would have if he went all out because we don't have any evidence of it, but he would be superior to what he showed until now, and what he showed until now is extraordinary. It's only logical.

    Enough to dominate a version of Sasuke who's far, far below the current version of Sasuke. You conveniently ignore this again. And if there's no telling how much power he would have if he were not sick, why the hell are you dead set on believing that it would grant him the power to defeat Sasuke at his current level? A Sasuke arm



    And here's the part where we try to derail the topic. Good sign for me, bad sign for you.



    Except he has both. Look at the list that I know you saw (since you chose not to address it). Every jutsu in his repertoire is superior to Itachi's. Every technique that they both share, Sasuke has the superior one (except for Genjutsu). Sasuke's flat out physically superior as well thanks to his chakra reserves. And I'm actually glad you brought up Naruto, because he's yet another ninja that Itachi's "technicaly" superior than, who would completely shit on him thanks to simply being too powerful for him to compete with. Just like Sasuke.



    It's based on a realistic understanding of how one's chakra works in this manga. Sasuke, who has no illnesses, already had a larger chakra reserve than Itachi, and had all of Itachi's jutsu, was using more MS jutsu than Itachi was, but even then it wasn't by much. If we are to assume that Itachi's stamina levels would be equal to Sasuke's (at that time) if he wasn't sick, that means he could only use as many MS jutsu as Sasuke used against say... Danzou. Meaning if he could, Sasuke would STILL overwhelm him when it comes to sheer stamina because in the current battle, even before Naruto has added his own chakra to him Sasuke has revealed godly amounts of MS usage (12 consecutive Enton against White Zetsu without even breaking a sweat!!!).

    Itachi can't compete with that.



    No, you won't use that because you know I'll simply remind you that nothing Itachi can do moves faster than Sasuke's activation of Susanoo. As for "assuming they'd both use their deadliest techniques", what the hell do you think "All Out" means? It means no restraint. Full bloodlust. Kill Mode.

    And you're right. Hashirama beat an exhausted, Sharingan-less Madara with a clone. Who's gonna be exhausted first in this fight though? Sasuke, or Itachi?
    It's questionable how fast Susanoo activates once either Itachi/Sasuke/Madara set their minds to it. I used this argument with Itachi vs. Minato. If Susanoo activates in an instant after their thought of it crossed their mind, then you're right. But then again, Itachi could do the same until he runs out of stamina, with which I never disagreed with of Sasuke having an advantage of.

    You could apply the same logic with Itachi. Sasuke then was a lot weaker than now as well as Itachi would be a lot stronger if he wasn't sick/blind/unwilling.

    Well, it may be so, but Totsuka is more frightening because it can seal anything it pierces. It's actually more convenient than any other attack if you want something neutralized.

    Sasuke's growth was incomplete then, of course. Did you ever see me deny that? But just as his growth was incomplete and his powers were still growing, Itachi wasn't at his best, he was FAR from his best because of already dozen times aforementioned reasons.

    I'm not ignoring anything. If anything, you're ignoring the sate Itachi was in, a decline in fighting spirit in general, not to mention a "staged" fight, as well as the opponent being his little brother.

    How am I derailing from the topic? Don't be like others who're in Sasuke's favor. I simply put him as an example because he's the perfect one.

    I saw them and made a response with its regard in the first paragraph. Since you generally wrote here that power means everything, Itachi wouldn't be addressed with such high regards as a capable ninja. If power was everything, people like A or Tsunade or Naruto with Sage Mode would be considered winners in every battle. But you can't calculate the outcome of the battle because someone has a higher power or more variety in the techniques. Given the manga and how certain fights ended.

    And I agree, Itachi which Kishimoto created could never compete with the current Sasuke. But in a fantasy battle in which Itachi goes in for a kill, uses his abilities to their full potential and has, let's say current Sasuke's personality (exactly the one in which he went for Obito's head in the last chapter), he could overwhelm him.

    And you have to remember the speed of Itachi's techniques executions. Even Kakashi who is strong enough to be in this example didn't see his handseals and would eventually need the help of others (can't remember if Kurenai or Asuma jumped in to help him). Using deadliest techniques during battle and them being a finishing blow aren't the same thing.

    Madara was exhausted but he was also careless, just like Neji was against Naruto during Chuunin exam. The point is that a simple technique prevailed and decided the outcome of the battle. That's why I think that weighing the techniques between any character is pointless and that intelligence has more importance than people give it credit for.

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