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Thread: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

  1. #76
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    So if you take out Izanami and Totsuka, Sasuke can beat Itachi because he has a bigger Susanoo? Mmmhm /: l

    ---------- Post added at 05:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 AM ----------



    Itachi's one true weakness in terms of combat was his personality. A bit too cautious and pacifistic. He could've even beaten Tobi had he written down a few notes about his abilities, like Konan.
    Itachi took out dragon sage mode kabuto

    no way in hell sasuke could have won that fight, itachi could have just landed izanami on sasuke at any time...

    Who wins the fight isnt always about who is strongest...

    Itachi could literally hax his way through any fight

    ---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    Even against Nagato? I think If he were to fight Nagato one on one, he would have been beaten.
    Depends, if he already knew nagatos location and only had to evade the 6 paths until he found nagatos weakened body, or if we are talking a healthy nagato vs a healthy itachi...

    nagato probably does stand a better shot of winning, but itachi could still pull off an upset with uchiha hax

    after the way itachi reversed edo tensei with shi suis eye in that crow

    on accident at that!!! And how he beat dragon sage mode kabuto, an opponent even nagato would struggle with...

    i dont think anyone, except mayby hashirama or madara would be out of the question for itachi

  2. #77
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by REN KOUEN View Post
    Itachi took out dragon sage mode kabuto

    no way in hell sasuke could have won that fight, itachi could have just landed izanami on sasuke at any time...

    Who wins the fight isnt always about who is strongest...

    Itachi could literally hax his way through any fight

    ---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------



    Depends, if he already knew nagatos location and only had to evade the 6 paths until he found nagatos weakened body, or if we are talking a healthy nagato vs a healthy itachi...

    nagato probably does stand a better shot of winning, but itachi could still pull off an upset with uchiha hax

    after the way itachi reversed edo tensei with shi suis eye in that crow

    on accident at that!!! And how he beat dragon sage mode kabuto, an opponent even nagato would struggle with...

    i dont think anyone, except mayby hashirama or madara would be out of the question for itachi
    He would hold his own against BSM Naruto, but will lose in the end because Naruto has a huge stamina and more firepower which would be too much for Itachi, dodging totsuka would be a piece of cake for him due to better perception and reflexes from Sage Mode, Negative emotions sensing would be useless against someone as pure-hearted as Itachi and the Yata Mirror is only effective when elements are used against it. So, only Rasenshuriken is expected to be nullified against Yata Mirror but several Bijuu Damas as It does not contain any element ( or even one ) will be able to obliterate it.

    Madara will definitely beat him.

    Hashirama will definitely beat him.

    To me Nagato is a quick sniper, If Itachi didn't have help from Naruto and Bee when Nagato launched Chibaku tensei and considering Yasaka's Magatama poor firepower, Itachi would have been defeated.

    I believe Sasuke is stronger than him due to having better eyes and his stamina far outclasses Itachi's and I don't agree with what the others said about Itachi being intelligent will change the match's fate, as If Sasuke is an idiot seriously, I expect him to be little bit less intelligent than Itachi, Sasuke was considered as a genius by many after all.

    Kabuto will beat him. Edo Tensei is part of his arsenal, so If he summons Edo Nagato and Edo Madara, Kabuto can relax and take a cup of tea while he watches the two Rinnegan-monsters in action. Also, Kabuto on several occasions would have easily beaten Itachi was it not for Sasuke's frequent interferences, It's undeniable that Itachi participated more in the fight but don't neglect Sasuke's part in it as well. If Sasuke didn't help Itachi out of Tayuya's sound genjutsu, It would have been over for Itachi...If when Kabuto impaled Itachi, Sasuke hadn't used Susanoo to distract Kabuto, Itachi would have already been turned into a pawn once again. If when the fight just started when Kabuto used Sage Art : White Rage Technique and If he hadn't tried to capture Sasuke instead, and If he had gone for Itachi, he would have won during his first attack. So no, to me Kabuto is stronger than him, and that is even without his edos, Sasuke and Itachi had to buy some time for Izanami, It ain't a techique which can be pulled out in the blink of an eye.

    To me these are the only characters he can't beat, though I forgot to add Juubito/Rinnegan Obito. So for me, there are only these 7 characters he can't beat. I think he would beat Alive Minato but I think he'd lose against KCM Minato.
    Last edited by Rikudobito; January 25, 2014 at 04:19 PM.
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by REN KOUEN View Post
    Itachi took out dragon sage mode kabuto

    no way in hell sasuke could have won that fight, itachi could have just landed izanami on sasuke at any time...
    Given that they were purposely holding back because they wanted Kabuto alive, it's questionable at best that Sasuke couldn't have won.

    And how exactly would Itachi catch Sasuke in Izanami? What "lesson" would Itachi use that Sasuke would be incapable of accepting? Izanami wouldn't be effective in this case because Sasuke already knows how to deal with it, meaning he can simply "accept" whatever condition and escape. Not to mention that Itachi would lose an Sharingan, weakening himself. Itachi would be far better without trying to use Izanami.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Given that they were purposely holding back because they wanted Kabuto alive, it's questionable at best that Sasuke couldn't have won.

    And how exactly would Itachi catch Sasuke in Izanami? What "lesson" would Itachi use that Sasuke would be incapable of accepting? Izanami wouldn't be effective in this case because Sasuke already knows how to deal with it, meaning he can simply "accept" whatever condition and escape. Not to mention that Itachi would lose an Sharingan, weakening himself. Itachi would be far better without trying to use Izanami.
    No. It goes the same to kabuto. He also purposely holding back because he was dying to have sasuke's body and to overwrite itachi's ET seal/talisman. So the two of them are holding back their assess for a purpose. So stop overetimating sasuke, because sasuke can't do anything to defeat sage mode kabuto. Sasuke will be defeated easily for a very simple reason, he knows nothing to sage mode, if he'll attack kabuto in a stupid way like he did to madara, and boom, he's dead. That's why itachi didn't just attack kabuto head-on. Because he knew how and dangerous the sage mode really is.

    Wow, what a post, RK. I remember how you claimed that minato can't escape and defeated easily if itachi will use his izanagi to him. And yet right now you just made an statement that sasuke can escape that izanami just by simply accepting the condition?

    The thing is, itachi just said that using the izanami in a battle is really useless. Because anyone can escape that genjutsu if they want to. Not unless they're kabuto and orochimaru.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    No. It goes the same to kabuto. He also purposely holding back because he was dying to have sasuke's body and to overwrite itachi's ET seal/talisman. So the two of them are holding back their assess for a purpose. So stop overetimating sasuke, because sasuke can't do anything to defeat sage mode kabuto. Sasuke will be defeated easily for a very simple reason, he knows nothing to sage mode, if he'll attack kabuto in a stupid way like he did to madara, and boom, he's dead. That's why itachi didn't just attack kabuto head-on. Because he knew how and dangerous the sage mode really is.
    It's not the same. There isn't any indication that Kabuto could have instantly killed either of them, or that he had such a technique that he held back. He isn't like Itachi and Sasuke, who we know could have instantly ended things from a distances. At the very least, from everything we know of him, any lethal attack from Kabuto would have to have been up-close. If Sasuke can take down a senjutsu using Juubi-spawn with his Enton, along with countering a senjutsu technique with Amaterasu, he could have easily shot Kabuto with Amaterasu and let him burn. Liquidifcation and regeneration wouldn't protect against that. Also, Sasuke has shown he knows quite a bit about Sage Mode and natural energy. Did you miss the whole battle with Obito, where we saw Sasuke put that knowledge to use in order to actually land hits on Obito? The fact that the Cursed Seal employed it was a boon.

    And no, the reason Itachi didn't attack Kabuto was because his whole plan was to caught him in a genjutsu, a fact that Itachi outright states.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Wow, what a post, RK. I remember how you claimed that minato can't escape and defeated easily if itachi will use his izanagi to him. And yet right now you just made an statement that sasuke can escape that izanami just by simply accepting the condition?

    The thing is, itachi just said that using the izanami in a battle is really useless. Because anyone can escape that genjutsu if they want to. Not unless they're kabuto and orochimaru.
    Um, that's because Izanami and Izanagi are quite different techniques, with the latter having a critical flaw making it unsuitable for battle (as mentioned). I think there are very few opponents who wouldn't be able to escape Izanami, including Minato. On the other hand, there is no way to "escape" Izanagi. Even if you know about it, it'll still grant an opening for an attack.

  7. #81
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    It's not the same. There isn't any indication that Kabuto could have instantly killed either of them, or that he had such a technique that he held back. He isn't like Itachi and Sasuke, who we know could have instantly ended things from a distances. At the very least, from everything we know of him, any lethal attack from Kabuto would have to have been up-close. If Sasuke can take down a senjutsu using Juubi-spawn with his Enton, along with countering a senjutsu technique with Amaterasu, he could have easily shot Kabuto with Amaterasu and let him burn. Liquidifcation and regeneration wouldn't protect against that. Also, Sasuke has shown he knows quite a bit about Sage Mode and natural energy. Did you miss the whole battle with Obito, where we saw Sasuke put that knowledge to use in order to actually land hits on Obito? The fact that the Cursed Seal employed it was a boon.

    And no, the reason Itachi didn't attack Kabuto was because his whole plan was to caught him in a genjutsu, a fact that Itachi outright states.

    Um, that's because Izanami and Izanagi are quite different techniques, with the latter having a critical flaw making it unsuitable for battle (as mentioned). I think there are very few opponents who wouldn't be able to escape Izanami, including Minato. On the other hand, there is no way to "escape" Izanagi. Even if you know about it, it'll still grant an opening for an attack.
    He would have probably not instantly killed them, but he could have attempted at least to try and cpture at least one of them. He had the means to capture them with the first technique he used while he entered Sage Mode right off the bat, the White rage technique which could paralyse both of them. He could have made Itachi return as his pawn, hadn't he gone for Sasuke instead. There were frequent occassions where ( I'm just repeating it from one my previous posts ), Itachi had to rely on Sasuke when both were trapped by Tayuya's sound genjutsu and both had to help each other here, If one was missing then the match would have already ended. Also, when Kabuto pierced through Itachi, you have to admit If Sasuke didn't acted as a distraction with Susanoo, Kabuto would have already turn Itachi back into his pawn once again. Seriously If Itachi wasn't an Edo he would have been beaten and If Sasuke wasn't there, Kabuto would have won.

    Okay. I would for, some reasons agree that on a side note, these Juubi-spawns indeed possess Natural Energy, but for sure they weren't that strong. I could go as far as call them fodders which even the Konoha 11 managed to beat with relative ease. Even a base mode Naruto was able to solo one with a single kick. Though I guess you're mentioning about the Bigger Juubi-spawns right?, they aren't that strong as well.

    You think Amaterasu would have been that much of a problem?, for sure with Sasuke's Blaze Release mastery, it could have been made much more easier for the duo, but...Kabuto has more than the means to escape it. Kabuto has Orochimaru's body replacement-style technique in his arsenal. As far as I know you can't say that with such technique he can't escape, because Sasuke already proved it against Itachi that he was able to escape from Amaterasu nonetheless. So no, as long as this technique is concerned, whether Sasuke's control over Blaze Release is superb will matter not. Though will Kabuto even need that technique to be honest? NO. It would be simply like guessing Kabuto would just sit by and let Sasuke and Itachi use techniques from afar? Kabuto already proved how he was able to easily avoid Sasuke's Susanoo arrow while he couldn't even see it just using his sensing capacity and his advanced reflexes from Sage Mode. I recall, that Susanoo arrow had to make Kakashi resort to Kamui and the latter stated the Arrow to move at very high speed when launched. Whether it is Amaterasu ( no need to even use Oro's body-replacement technique ) ,Arrows,Totsuka sword, I'd expect Kabuto to dodge all of them.

    It seems our definition of how Izanami works seems to be different but oh well...Isn't Izanami a technique used to make people realise the error of their ways and to acknowledge the real results of their action and to accept their fate as well as to accept reality as it is. Judging from Kabuto's personality, that's made the technique suitable to trap him, he did not accept reality. So no, someone like Minato who is pure-hearted and who has fully accepted reality, the technique will not work on him I think If Izanami is truly all about that unless Kishi changes the information given. That's the technique's weakness to me and as Itachi said every technique has a weakness whether you like it or not.
    Last edited by Rikudobito; January 26, 2014 at 04:43 PM.
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  8. #82
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    He would have probably not instantly killed them, but he could have attempted at least to try and cpture at least one of them. He had the means to capture them with the first technique he used while he entered Sage Mode right off the bat, the White rage technique which could paralyse both of them. He could have made Itachi return as his pawn, hadn't he gone for Sasuke instead. There were frequent occassions where ( I'm just repeating it from one my previous posts ), Itachi had to rely on Sasuke when both were trapped by Tayuya's sound genjutsu and both had to help each other here, If one was missing then the match would have already ended. Also, when Kabuto pierced through Itachi, you have to admit If Sasuke didn't acted as a distraction with Susanoo, Kabuto would have already turn Itachi back into his pawn once again. Seriously If Itachi wasn't an Edo he would have been beaten and If Sasuke wasn't there, Kabuto would have won.
    Kabuto did attempt that, and failed. It really wouldn't have mattered which one he had aimed for, Itachi still would have had the protection of Susanoo. Now I'm sure one could question whether Kabuto would have been strong enough to break through the initial Susanoo aura, but pulling out the kunai and puncturing it would have at the very least given Itachi the heads up to strength it. Sure, there were times when the brothers needed each other, but that was only due to them holding back and trying to catch Kabuto with Itachi's specific plan. Had they not needed him alive, there's no logical reason that fight would have even gotten that far. A single stab with the Totsuka Blade from Itachi, ala Nagato, would have ended the whole fight a minute after it began.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    Okay. I would for, some reasons agree that on a side note, these Juubi-spawns indeed possess Natural Energy, but for sure they weren't that strong. I could go as far as call them fodders which even the Konoha 11 managed to beat with relative ease.
    My point was that Amaterasu/Enton > Senjutsu. Even the actual Juubi had to sacrifice a part of itself to counter being hit by an enhanced Enton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    You think Amaterasu would have been that much of a problem?, for sure with Sasuke's Blaze Release mastery, it could have been made much more easier for the duo, but...Kabuto has more than the means to escape it. Kabuto has Orochimaru's body replacement-style technique in his arsenal. As far as I know you can't say that with such technique he can't escape, because Sasuke already proved it against Itachi that he was able to escape from Amaterasu nonetheless. So no, as long as this technique is concerned, whether Sasuke's control over Blaze Release is superb will matter not. Though will Kabuto even need that technique to be honest? NO. It would be simply like guessing Kabuto would just sit by and let Sasuke and Itachi use techniques from afar? Kabuto already proved how he was able to easily avoid Sasuke's Susanoo arrow while he couldn't even see it just using his sensing capacity and his advanced reflexes from Sage Mode. I recall, that Susanoo arrow had to make Kakashi resort to Kamui and the latter stated the Arrow to move at very high speed when launched. Whether it is Amaterasu ( no need to even use Oro's body-replacement technique ) ,Arrows,Totsuka sword, I'd expect Kabuto to dodge all of them.
    Sure, Kabuto could have managed to escape the first attack with the replacement technique, but that's kind of moot here. First off, Sasuke has shown not only the ability to create a massive single shot of Amaterasu to cover a huge area (meaning even creating a new body wouldn't escape the flames) but also the ability to shoot multiple blasts of the flames (meaning he could simply sit back and snipe every new body Kabuto made til Kabuto ran out of chakra). Secondly, Sasuke is fully aware that Kabuto has that means of escape, so there is little to no reason he would not take that into account. As for dodging, Kabuto was barely able to dodge the arrow, and that was only because he was allowed to play attention to it. Distracted, his ability to dodge is non-existent. Throw in the previously mentioned facts about multiple attacks and massive AOE, along with the fact that Sasuke can continue to manipulate the flames afterward, and whether he could actually dodge them all is doubtful. But we're getting off topic here and should take it to another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    It seems our definition of how Izanami works seems to be different but oh well...Isn't Izanami a technique used to make people realise the error of their ways and to acknowledge the real results of their action and to accept their fate as well as to accept reality as it is. Judging from Kabuto's personality, that made the technique suitable to trap him. So no, someone like Minato who is pure-hearted and who has fully accepted reality, the technique will not. That's the technique's weakness to me and as Itachi said every technique as a weakness whether you like it or not.
    Our definitions don't seem to be that different... as you said, Izanami is about making someone accept a truth. Now I don't think that the person would have to make an actual error to still be forced to accept something, but regardless, yeah that's the weakness. That's why I could only see a few people, like Kabuto and Naruto, being incapable of escaping it. Formerly Sasuke might have been in that group too, but his current self has already shown the ability to recognize and accept his mistakes. So what would he be caught with? Plus he was told how it worked so even if there was an issue he had to face, he knows what he would need to do to save himself.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    It's not the same. There isn't any indication that Kabuto could have instantly killed either of them, or that he had such a technique that he held back. He isn't like Itachi and Sasuke, who we know could have instantly ended things from a distances. At the very least, from everything we know of him, any lethal attack from Kabuto would have to have been up-close. If Sasuke can take down a senjutsu using Juubi-spawn with his Enton, along with countering a senjutsu technique with Amaterasu, he could have easily shot Kabuto with Amaterasu and let him burn. Liquidifcation and regeneration wouldn't protect against that. Also, Sasuke has shown he knows quite a bit about Sage Mode and natural energy. Did you miss the whole battle with Obito, where we saw Sasuke put that knowledge to use in order to actually land hits on Obito? The fact that the Cursed Seal employed it was a boon.

    And no, the reason Itachi didn't attack Kabuto was because his whole plan was to caught him in a genjutsu, a fact that Itachi outright states.

    Um, that's because Izanami and Izanagi are quite different techniques, with the latter having a critical flaw making it unsuitable for battle (as mentioned). I think there are very few opponents who wouldn't be able to escape Izanami, including Minato. On the other hand, there is no way to "escape" Izanagi. Even if you know about it, it'll still grant an opening for an attack.
    1. But kabuto is in sage mode, amaterasu or any attack are all useless. Didn't he said that he's one with nature? He closed his eyes because he can sensed them pretty easily. So shooting the amaterasu would be literally useless. No, sasuke knows nothing about the sage mode. Well, maybe he knew basically about jugo's senjutsu/natural energy, but literally, he's clueless of the capability and power of sage mode.

    Maybe. But my interpretation is kinda different. How the heck itachi will cast his genjutsu to kabuto who just closed his eyes? Yea, he just said that he wants to caught him with his genjutsu, but as that fight moving on, itachi knew that any of his genjutsu is useless, that's why he relied to his izanami.

    2. My bad, it wasn't the izanagi but the izanami. You just claimed that minato will be caught by the izanami and he can't escape that genjutsu. Whereas you just claimed that sasuke can escape that by just accepting the condition. Which is kinda bias. and no, I think minato is one of the opponents who can escape that izanami pretty easily. Minato is no orochimaru and kabuto. But anyway, itachi just said that izanami is really useless to use in a battle. So it's no doubt sasuke can escape that, not unless he's as evil as his master and fellow desciple.

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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    1. But kabuto is in sage mode, amaterasu or any attack are all useless. Didn't he said that he's one with nature? He closed his eyes because he can sensed them pretty easily. So shooting the amaterasu would be literally useless. No, sasuke knows nothing about the sage mode. Well, maybe he knew basically about jugo's senjutsu/natural energy, but literally, he's clueless of the capability and power of sage mode.
    They are far from useless. We saw that Kabuto could be hit, despite his "sage senses". And given all the means Sasuke has to use Amaterasu, it would take more then simple dodging to avoid being hit. How is he clueless when as mentioned, the Cursed Seal is basically the same thing? He may not know certain details like the balancing issue, but he knows what senjutsu can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Maybe. But my interpretation is kinda different. How the heck itachi will cast his genjutsu to kabuto who just closed his eyes? Yea, he just said that he wants to caught him with his genjutsu, but as that fight moving on, itachi knew that any of his genjutsu is useless, that's why he relied to his izanami.
    Izanami was the genjutsu that Itachi intended to use. He made that clear soon after the battle had begun. Once Kabuto revealed his "counter", the whole strategy was about going through the motions to set Izanami up.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    2. My bad, it wasn't the izanagi but the izanami. You just claimed that minato will be caught by the izanami and he can't escape that genjutsu. Whereas you just claimed that sasuke can escape that by just accepting the condition. Which is kinda bias. and no, I think minato is one of the opponents who can escape that izanami pretty easily. Minato is no orochimaru and kabuto. But anyway, itachi just said that izanami is really useless to use in a battle. So it's no doubt sasuke can escape that, not unless he's as evil as his master and fellow desciple.
    When did I ever claim that? I'm quite sure I never spoken about Minato being caught by Izanami. And I think you misunderstood what I just wrote. I acknowledged that Minato would be among those who would be able to escape it. I also doubt Orochimaru wouldn't escape either. He seems fully capable of accepting his own limits.

  11. #85
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Kabuto did attempt that, and failed. It really wouldn't have mattered which one he had aimed for, Itachi still would have had the protection of Susanoo. Now I'm sure one could question whether Kabuto would have been strong enough to break through the initial Susanoo aura, but pulling out the kunai and puncturing it would have at the very least given Itachi the heads up to strength it. Sure, there were times when the brothers needed each other, but that was only due to them holding back and trying to catch Kabuto with Itachi's specific plan. Had they not needed him alive, there's no logical reason that fight would have even gotten that far. A single stab with the Totsuka Blade from Itachi, ala Nagato, would have ended the whole fight a minute after it began.

    My point was that Amaterasu/Enton > Senjutsu. Even the actual Juubi had to sacrifice a part of itself to counter being hit by an enhanced Enton.

    Sure, Kabuto could have managed to escape the first attack with the replacement technique, but that's kind of moot here. First off, Sasuke has shown not only the ability to create a massive single shot of Amaterasu to cover a huge area (meaning even creating a new body wouldn't escape the flames) but also the ability to shoot multiple blasts of the flames (meaning he could simply sit back and snipe every new body Kabuto made til Kabuto ran out of chakra). Secondly, Sasuke is fully aware that Kabuto has that means of escape, so there is little to no reason he would not take that into account. As for dodging, Kabuto was barely able to dodge the arrow, and that was only because he was allowed to play attention to it. Distracted, his ability to dodge is non-existent. Throw in the previously mentioned facts about multiple attacks and massive AOE, along with the fact that Sasuke can continue to manipulate the flames afterward, and whether he could actually dodge them all is doubtful. But we're getting off topic here and should take it to another thread.

    Our definitions don't seem to be that different... as you said, Izanami is about making someone accept a truth. Now I don't think that the person would have to make an actual error to still be forced to accept something, but regardless, yeah that's the weakness. That's why I could only see a few people, like Kabuto and Naruto, being incapable of escaping it. Formerly Sasuke might have been in that group too, but his current self has already shown the ability to recognize and accept his mistakes. So what would he be caught with? Plus he was told how it worked so even if there was an issue he had to face, he knows what he would need to do to save himself.
    That's why I said "could" , yes I agree that Itachi still have the Susanoo protection so as to cover himself from being attacked.
    Once Kabuto entered Sage Mode, the plans changed I think, Itachi told Sasuke not to kill him before Kabuto went into Sage Mode. Soon afterwards, I think the plans changed because he could no longer use genjutsu on him,so they had to resort by force and they did not expect him to be a Sage Mode user, so yeah it changes a lot of things as well. Now,Kabuto as well had no intention to kill the brothers,...he could have fully attacked Itachi because he was an Edo tensei, but his intentions to kill Sasuke were nil. He simply wanted to capture Sasuke. So, both sides were fighting with "don't kill him/them" in their mind. Totsuka blade would be a piece of cake to evade due to sensing, advanced perception and reflexes. He avoided an arrow from Sasuke which is stated by Kakashi to move at very fast speeds, He would have avoided Totsuka easily, what happened to Nagato was that he was blinded by the smoke, that's a different context from here.

    Maybe, but what my version of what the Juubi was trying to do is that It was trying to get rid of the black flames before they could proliferate on him and consequently making him unable to remove all of his body parts. Well, that's logic anyone would try to get fire off of them.

    He was barely able to avoid the arrow,because he was "blind" ,yes I'm using the word blind because he was still inside the snake and couldn't see anything yet he was easily able to avoid the arrow. Sasuke is aware of Kabuto's ability to escape, yes but Kabuto is also aware of their abilities. Kabuto wouldn't go head on against dangerous techniques such as Amaterasu and Susanoo, he had to plan what to do before going head on. Of course, Sasuke could have thrown all of those techniques at Kabuto but therein lies the problem that Kabuto is very tricky in that domain of being able to escape. The first Amaterasu depends my friend, the eight-tails is a giant target, of course he would have to fire a huge-scale version of Amaterasu on him, Kabuto is very minuscule when compared to the eight-tails. That Blaze Release magatamas, you do realise they take different paths, don't you? not all of them would be aiming for Kabuto, all of these go into different paths unless Sasuke decides to throw them in a single path. Kabuto may of course use the body-replacement technique of Orochimaru which is very chakra-consuming, but you forget that Blaze release/Amaterasu is very chakra-consuming as well, If Sasuke fires a lot of them, I'm sure he'll be extremely tired and he will not always get the target right, there are more times that he will miss due to Kabuto's reflexes and his ability to replace his body. So, I conclude that Sasuke will waste more chakra and dont' forget Kabuto has the ability to passively absorb nature energy while he is moving due to having inherited Juugo's power/cells.

    Naruto has fully accepted reality in fact, I'd doubt he'd be trapped. Izanami would work mainly on arrogant persons who don't accept reality such as Madara ( maybe he has a trick to get out of it ), many akatsuki members including Obito. Yes, the former Sasuke would have been part of that group and now he's changed.
    Last edited by Rikudobito; January 27, 2014 at 04:30 PM.
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    I'm always back and forth with this battle. The way Sasuke perform against Madara, I'm leaning towards Itachi. If Sasuke pulls the same stunt that he pulled on Madara, all Itachi has to do is hit him with Tsukuyomi before he can act, by the time Sasuke breaks out he'll have a sword through his chest.

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    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    That's why I said "could" , yes I agree that Itachi still have the Susanoo protection so as to cover himself from being attacked.
    Once Kabuto entered Sage Mode, the plans changed I think, Itachi told Sasuke not to kill him before Kabuto went into Sage Mode. Soon afterwards, I think the plans changed because he could no longer use genjutsu on him,so they had to resort by force and they did not expect him to be a Sage Mode user, so yeah it changes a lot of things as well. Now,Kabuto as well had no intention to kill the brothers,...he could have fully attacked Itachi because he was an Edo tensei, but his intentions to kill Sasuke were nil. He simply wanted to capture Sasuke. So, both sides were fighting with "don't kill him/them" in their mind. Totsuka blade would be a piece of cake to evade due to sensing, advanced perception and reflexes. He avoided an arrow from Sasuke which is stated by Kakashi to move at very fast speeds, He would have avoided Totsuka easily, what happened to Nagato was that he was blinded by the smoke, that's a different context from here.
    The plan didn't change. At best, all that changed was which genjutsu Itachi intended to use. But the overall plan, catching him in a genjutsu, was still being followed. And it's not really the same. Kabuto's objective still required him to stab Itachi and devour Sasuke, so the means in which he fought were the same as if he was fighting to kill. That's quite different from the brothers, who we know were holding back and willingly getting up-close when they didn't have to. Unlike them, Kabuto has never been shown capable of killing someone at a range. Except it clearly wasn't easy to evade, since Nagato, who was also a sensor, was incapable of doing so. And as mentioned, Kabuto had a terrible record of actually avoiding attacks. Quite sure Itachi was able to cut him several times with a regular sword.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    Maybe, but what my version of what the Juubi was trying to do is that It was trying to get rid of the black flames before they could proliferate on him and consequently making him unable to remove all of his body parts. Well, that's logic anyone would try to get fire off of them.
    And it would be the same for Kabuto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    He was barely able to avoid the arrow,because he was "blind" ,yes I'm using the word blind because he was still inside the snake and couldn't see anything yet he was easily able to avoid the arrow. Sasuke is aware of Kabuto's ability to escape, yes but Kabuto is also aware of their abilities. Kabuto wouldn't go head on against dangerous techniques such as Amaterasu and Susanoo, he had to plan what to do before going head on. Of course, Sasuke could have thrown all of those techniques at Kabuto but therein lies the problem that Kabuto is very tricky in that domain of being able to escape. The first Amaterasu depends my friend, the eight-tails is a giant target, of course he would have to fire a huge-scale version of Amaterasu on him, Kabuto is very minuscule when compared to the eight-tails. That Blaze Release magatamas, you do realise they take different paths, don't you? not all of them would be aiming for Kabuto, all of these go into different paths unless Sasuke decides to throw them in a single path. Kabuto may of course use the body-replacement technique of Orochimaru which is very chakra-consuming, but you forget that Blaze release/Amaterasu is very chakra-consuming as well, If Sasuke fires a lot of them, I'm sure he'll be extremely tired and he will not always get the target right, there are more times that he will miss due to Kabuto's reflexes and his ability to replace his body. So, I conclude that Sasuke will waste more chakra and dont' forget Kabuto has the ability to passively absorb nature energy while he is moving due to having inherited Juugo's power/cells.
    Seeing has nothing to do with sensory skills, so that's moot. That's the whole point of sensory abilities, that they grant additional perception beyond the normal senses. Kabuto couldn't have been aware of the majority of their abilities. Itachi was infamous for holding back and only using genjutsu, even Konoha didn't know his full power. The only person who ever came close to seeing it was Sasuke and even then we know Itachi was still holding quite a bit back. And as for Sasuke, Kabuto would have only known of some of Sasuke's pre-MS abilities, since he purposely hid the Chidori variations, and maybe that he had gained Amaterasu and riblet Susanoo. There was no way for Kabuto to learn that Sasuke had gained Enton manipulation or that his Susanoo had advanced so much. As for what Kabuto did, that's exactly what he did. He only did as well as he did because Itachi outright stated his intentions at the start of the fighting.

    The size of the target doesn't affect the amount of flames that Sasuke can throw at it. Sasuke knowing what he knows means there's little reason he couldn't just decide to cover the field in flames and thus negate any chance of Kabuto forming a new body. The magatama's go where Sasuke wants them to go. That fact is clear given not a single one missed or a spare magatama created shows the control. And Amaterasu/Enton isn't consuming for EMS Sasuke. He has used it and Susanoo numerous times without any sign of weariness or running low on chakra. Even before that, he was capable of using at least six MS techniques on top of his regular techniques before running low on chakra. Not to mention the whole benefit of Enton is that it allows him to employ Amaterasu without having to make it, there by cutting down on the cost of it. A few MS techniques aren't gonna get Sasuke, else he would have ran out of chakra against Kabuto, having used both Amaterasu and Susanoo multiple times in a row.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    Naruto has fully accepted reality in fact, I'd doubt he'd be trapped. Izanami would work mainly on arrogant persons who don't accept reality such as Madara ( maybe he has a trick to get out of it ), many akatsuki members including Obito. Yes, the former Sasuke would have been part of that group and now he's changed.
    Naruto hasn't accepted reality. He has been dead-set on ignoring it, despite being told otherwise. If Naruto could accept reality, then he would have given up on Sasuke, instead of going against his own way or nearly starting a war. Madara accepted reality. He had no disillusions about Hashirama being stronger then him, something he had acknowledged a few times.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke
    I'm always back and forth with this battle. The way Sasuke perform against Madara, I'm leaning towards Itachi. If Sasuke pulls the same stunt that he pulled on Madara, all Itachi has to do is hit him with Tsukuyomi before he can act, by the time Sasuke breaks out he'll have a sword through his chest.
    Nah. Itachi's Tsukuyomi comes with a severe side effect (intense migraines and fatigue). If Sasuke were to break out of Tsukuyomi, the same thing would happen as the last time it happened: Itachi'd suffer the world's most gnarly ice cream headache while falling to his knee to catch a breather. And this was back when Sasuke didn't have MS, let alone EMS. His doujutsu is on another level now.

    I swear, unless that Totsuka is especially effective against Sasuke's Susanoo, there is no fight here.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The plan didn't change. At best, all that changed was which genjutsu Itachi intended to use. But the overall plan, catching him in a genjutsu, was still being followed. And it's not really the same. Kabuto's objective still required him to stab Itachi and devour Sasuke, so the means in which he fought were the same as if he was fighting to kill. That's quite different from the brothers, who we know were holding back and willingly getting up-close when they didn't have to. Unlike them, Kabuto has never been shown capable of killing someone at a range. Except it clearly wasn't easy to evade, since Nagato, who was also a sensor, was incapable of doing so. And as mentioned, Kabuto had a terrible record of actually avoiding attacks. Quite sure Itachi was able to cut him several times with a regular sword.

    And it would be the same for Kabuto.

    Seeing has nothing to do with sensory skills, so that's moot. That's the whole point of sensory abilities, that they grant additional perception beyond the normal senses. Kabuto couldn't have been aware of the majority of their abilities. Itachi was infamous for holding back and only using genjutsu, even Konoha didn't know his full power. The only person who ever came close to seeing it was Sasuke and even then we know Itachi was still holding quite a bit back. And as for Sasuke, Kabuto would have only known of some of Sasuke's pre-MS abilities, since he purposely hid the Chidori variations, and maybe that he had gained Amaterasu and riblet Susanoo. There was no way for Kabuto to learn that Sasuke had gained Enton manipulation or that his Susanoo had advanced so much. As for what Kabuto did, that's exactly what he did. He only did as well as he did because Itachi outright stated his intentions at the start of the fighting.

    The size of the target doesn't affect the amount of flames that Sasuke can throw at it. Sasuke knowing what he knows means there's little reason he couldn't just decide to cover the field in flames and thus negate any chance of Kabuto forming a new body. The magatama's go where Sasuke wants them to go. That fact is clear given not a single one missed or a spare magatama created shows the control. And Amaterasu/Enton isn't consuming for EMS Sasuke. He has used it and Susanoo numerous times without any sign of weariness or running low on chakra. Even before that, he was capable of using at least six MS techniques on top of his regular techniques before running low on chakra. Not to mention the whole benefit of Enton is that it allows him to employ Amaterasu without having to make it, there by cutting down on the cost of it. A few MS techniques aren't gonna get Sasuke, else he would have ran out of chakra against Kabuto, having used both Amaterasu and Susanoo multiple times in a row.

    Naruto hasn't accepted reality. He has been dead-set on ignoring it, despite being told otherwise. If Naruto could accept reality, then he would have given up on Sasuke, instead of going against his own way or nearly starting a war. Madara accepted reality. He had no disillusions about Hashirama being stronger then him, something he had acknowledged a few times.
    The intention to kill was nowhere near present, I think. Even Kabuto said he wanted a young Uchiha body to fit his purposes and for his future researches or whatever, killing Sasuke would bring an end to this "plan" of his. He did "kill" someone at a range ( by close-range in that instance ) when he pierced Itachi with his chakra scalpel and at mid-range when he used Muki Tensei on Itachi. But, Itachi was an edo tensei at that time thus rendering the word "kill" a bit too strong. But the idea is still there because If Itachi wasn't an Edo he would have died nevertheless. Again, that's one of those moments where Kabuto would have outright ended the match on his own and that was without his precious edo corpses. Again, Nagato was blinded by the smoke, and I would prefer to reject that "sensor" thing because both us know that Nagato was devoided of all his "senses" as he became nothing more than a mere puppet/mindless person as when he was controlled by kabuto so it wasn't really Nagato fighting at all. If you say the opposite I won't even bother replying because the definition of mindless means = senseless ( I mean he has lost the use of his senses as he was not even the one controlling his own body so his "sensing" factor is out of the question here, i.e : it's not even present ).

    No, Itachi was ill at that time and his eyesight was deteriorated due to the usage of his Mangekyou Sharingan prowesses, that's more than just holding back to me, he was likely at 30-40% of his own power. Of course Konoha didn't know his full power, not only because he left at an early age but also because he probably didn't master his MS abilities at that time.

    No, you don't understand what I was trying to mean, Sasuke can freely control the amount of flames he uwants to throw at his opponent. Like against the Eight-tails/Bee he had to resort a large-scale version of Amaterasu, would he have used it on a regular-sized human? No ...as proof when he used it on the Raikage it wasn't as big as when he used it on the Eight-tails. He made the flames that big so that it could completely cover the beast. If you're talking about the Zetsus, they're fodder lol. Kabuto has advanced Reflexes and Perceptions in Sage Mode and that's undeniable. But Kabuto has practically shown no signs of fatigue after using Orochimaru's Body-replacement Style technique several times, and not even close to run low on chakra and I shall probably recall to you that Kabuto can passively absorb Senjutsu Chakra while he's moving at the same time, and yeah, that's a trait he obtained from Juugo after assimiliating his abilities using Sakon and Ukon's kekkei genkai. That ability from Juugo has helped him to replenish his Senjutsu chakra, so it's near impossible for him to actually run out of it or even run out of chakra itself.

    I see. For me he has accepted it. But you can't really tell, so far, Izanami has been used against arrogant people, who abused on their powers ( as seen in the anime, don't tell me just because it's "anime" that it has no point because the anime staff contacts Kishi before making such episodes ( Izanagi and Izanami ), the slightest error they make, it outright changes the point of the story ). Naruto is not part of those persons, Sasuke as well isn't. That's why Kabuto was suited to be trapped in the loop. Then going by your logic, as Sasuke is not accepting that he's about to die, meaning he's not accepting reality here, does that mean that he re-enters the group of those who are prone to be trapped into the loop?
    Last edited by Rikudobito; January 29, 2014 at 04:56 PM.
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  16. #90
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi Uchiha vs Sasuke Uchiha :All Out

    Spoiler: Technically off-topic show


    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    I see. For me he has accepted it. But you can't really tell, so far, Izanami has been used against arrogant people, who abused on their powers ( as seen in the anime, don't tell me just because it's "anime" that it has no point because the anime staff contacts Kishi before making such episodes ( Izanagi and Izanami ), the slightest error they make, it outright changes the point of the story ). Naruto is not part of those persons, Sasuke as well isn't. That's why Kabuto was suited to be trapped in the loop. Then going by your logic, as Sasuke is not accepting that he's about to die, meaning he's not accepting reality here, does that mean that he re-enters the group of those who are prone to be trapped into the loop?
    I haven't a clue what happen in the anime, I don't watch it anymore. Anyway, Izanami isn't just about the abuse of power. Kabuto wasn't abusing power and the whole issue with him was that he didn't accept his own limitation, instead he attempted to supersede it by stealing from others. Sasuke not wanting to die doesn't mean he wouldn't accept death, he really wouldn't have any choice. That's much different then not realizing you can't bring someone back because they keep trying to kill you and everyone near you.

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