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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
When was the first time Ichigo exhibit Quincy power? By that I meant outside of common abilities that share with the Hollows and Shinigami. I don't want to reread the whole series. So if anyone think they know, feel free to answer. Since I doubt it will be a clear cut answer, discussion should be good.
Apparently based on Bleach wiki, Zangetsu had always been Ichigo's quincy power as opposed to the hollow in me which is his shinigami power. So either your answer and or the first time Ichigo saw Zangetsu.
---------- Post added at 02:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 AM ----------
Which is extremely confusing because learning Zangetsu was a step to get his "shinigami" power. I am totally lost in Bleach logic.
What is truth is that Bach-getsu said he was trying to hold ichigo back, and its always his real zangetsu that saved his ass. These 2 are a pretty good indicator of what is going on as for his abilities and how he grew in powers.
But for his undeveloped powers they had no personality and also its in essence his own self your talking about. So he is both shinigami and quincy, untrained he cant really focus those powers. Thus its possible that during fights he just sucked up reiatsu anyways, or actually throughout his life. Thats why when Rukia first stabbed him he sucked her dry. And actually could have killed her (small miracle here).
His Zangetsu really is Zangetsu so that is not the question, Back-getsu merely tried to hold him back cause he knew what would become of his fights. The awareness of the first quincy must have been there and the fear that Ichigo had to pick sides. So its likely that he merely tried to make Ichigo retire. But not that he was the real zangetsu at some point (as in that ichigos powers are fake).
The only instance we know for a fact would be the time old man zangetsu drew him into his inner world and ichigo fought zangetsu during the kenpachi fight. Ichigo made the point that old man zangetsu used the quincy shadows to draw ichigo into his inner world. Anything before that would be speculation at this point. Perhaps a reasonable case can be made for ichigo being a quincy influencing his absortion of rukia's powers however nothing conclusive can be said on the matter.
As for Ichigo and his Quincy powers, I think the earliest he used them was during his fight with Kenpachi. Old Man Zangetsu stopping his bleeding was actually Blut.
And you have to understand that Aizen does not account for everything that happens, he does however twist events and is the nr 1 mindfucker in the story. In TBTP he even told Shinji that it was him that chose to be with him. Also look how surprised he was that Shinji tore down that cloak as Aizen was watching events with Urahara. I believe that in some way he does plan ahead but he cant become a Lt unless chosen by a captain. Sure he can refuse, but he worked his way up so he could be one.
You first got to be chosen to be 1 to even refuse the position. So even if he says he could have refused and it being true his main purpose of saying those things, as he did with Ichigo is cause he likes to mindfuck with people. Especially those people he finds *interesting*.
Coming back where i was, i believe that it is merely Aizen trying to set events to his hand rather then spilling the beans about Ichigos mother, it was not yet time to tell him that he was half quincy. Thus explaining how he was sucking up all her powers. And like i said Aizen plans ahead, he could use it as leverage with Ichigo in some way, but now he cant since its already told.
I think its fair to say Kubo didn't always intend on making Ichigo into a Quincy. I think this 1000 year blood war arc is all a rewrite that happened sometime during the Arrancar arc. There were only some slight murmers around the web at the time but there was some speculation and questionable evidence that I read sometime around when the FKT battle was going on that pointed towards an overhaul of what Kubo already had planned for the plot of Bleach.
Not to say that the idea of changing the plot could undermine Bleach thus far, I'm sure making Quincies a major part of the plot is something Kubo has always thought of, and it's been blended into the plot pretty well. And it would also be fair to say that no author/mangaka knows what the plot will be in 400+ chapters.
So no matter either way but I don't think there will be many solid pieces of evidence of Ichigo using Quincy powers very far back in the series.
I would have linked if I could..but I can say the discussion was here at mangahelpers.
One thing I read a few times was that back during the Arrancar arc Kubo had 40-50 rough chapter drafts drawn out ahead of time that may or may not have been scraped because what he had planned wouldn't gel well due to the popularity of certain characters driving the popularity of bleach.
The other odd thing that popped up on here was a post that was supposedly someone who had a close connection to one of Kubos drawing assistants. He claimed the same thing, that Kubo had scraped a lot of planned plot and rewrote it. At the time the post had a strange feeling of legitimacy because it was very long and detailed. A couple days after it was made and discussed by a few members including me it got deleted.
So I will call it a conspiracy theory now but I have my suspisions non the less.
Btw this was at least 3 or more years ago when this stuff was around.
Last edited by conn-man; December 31, 2013 at 07:02 PM.
Now what is the main problem with me is always that he adopted his wifes name. It is odd to do. And isnt even explained by Kubo. He simply ignores the fact that a generally common custom of male lineage is dropped by Isshin.
The other part is his mothers death which i always speculated on related to her having at least some ability to fight thus protect her son, and she did. Many said that it was just crossfire and she just died a human. But she was a quincy.
I feel that the quincy part of him is a bit forced, since its always been more clear that he had both a hollow side and shinigami side. When old guy zangetsu actually talked to hollow-ichigo he absorbed him into himself (when Ichigos consciousness had left already) so i never felt the need to see him as something else then a part of Ichigo. Actually he still is, but he is the quincy part. What i dont get is why hes clad in black rather then white as all quincy do. But o well.
Meh, the last name thing is okay. I meant it isn't a really big deal. Ichigo's mother death is kinda strange. Originally, it fits if she was just a human. But she was a super competent hollow. The whole Yhwach <--- this guy's name is a bitch to spell-- extermination of half blood thing is super weird. Even if because of the hollow influence in her, she should be competent enough to run or stall for time. Beside aren't there shinigami around anyway for that job. Much less there are ishida's father, urahara. Someone should have sense something.
Then there is the whole Ishida is the chosen one. He isn't even a pure blood. He is 3/4 of a quincy or a little bit more. Beside if Yhwach going that route then Ishida's father is even more special.
Here is something I found back in the Interviews with Kubo thread
''CREDITS FOR THE SUMMARY BELOW OF THE INTERVIEW AT JUMP FESTA GO TO THE USER TATAI ON http://bleachasylum.com
- Bleach is at his half
- Bleach should continue another 10 years.
- Kubo has recently put his entire scenario on paper to make the story more exciting. (For the next 10 years)
- He works with his assistants and his publisher to expand the script and make it consistent to the maximum.
- He is very proud of the plot he had prepared and began to know how he wants to finish Bleach.
- In the first place, Grimmjow wasn't meant to be an important character, he was to quickly die. But as of now, his existence will eventually matter for the future of the manga.
- The birth of ichigo is surrounded in mystery since it's very special. the readers will be amazed when they will know about it ! He is eager to see their reaction.
- Normally the Arrancar arc shouldn't be too long. It's thanks to the craze for Japanese fans for the Arrancars, without it, the arc would have been shorter.
- Female characters that kubo prefers are Matsumoto and Inoue.
- Male characters that Kubo prefers are Mayuri and Aizen.
- The end of the Arrancar arc should have been the end of Bleach if it didn't work and if the publisher had asked Kubo to finish the manga quickly. (Like before the start of the SS arc, because Bleach was threatened at that time)
- Kubo wanted to put this scene because it was really good, but the real end of Bleach will be totally different. (Note : Unfortunately, the scene in question is not specified in the summary of the fan. Maybe Kubo talk about the farewell scene, but it's just an opinion).
It's a summary of the Jump Festa.''
This is not the exact evidence I was looking for to back my earlier claims up but it is along the right lines. there is alot to be found in that old thread of interviews with Kubo. If you start from page one and read on there is a bit of detail from Bleach's past to put together. the one problem as you go through the thread is that many links to other interviews are dead since they are from so long ago.
Around what part of the story that Bleach was threaten?