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Thread: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset. <3

  1. #16
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Naruto was a Kage level shinobi already against Pain. Enough said.
    Um yea, that's why I compared him to kages. Kage level is 3rd or 4th tier nowadays.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Naruto was a Kage level shinobi already against Pain. Enough said.
    he still would have lost without the frogs, the Kyuubi, and Minato to help him, though. The frogs provided distraction and more power, like when they attacked the summons and when Bunta put Naruto and Animal Realm in his mouth. The Kyuubi broke Naruto free of Pain and greatly weakened Pain by making him use chibaku tensei. Minato both fixed the seal and gave Naruto hope and confidence. Hell, if it weren't for Hinata, Naruto wouldn't have let Kyuubi take over.

    Naruto is a powerhouse without the Kyuubi's chakra thanks to Sage Mode, but he wasn't that much of a powerhouse. He was more of a shrewd fighter who used combination of tricks to win. That's where Naruto excels, and he's shown that so many times over. He's not as good no matter how much power the Kyuubi gives him.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    he still would have lost without the frogs, the Kyuubi, and Minato to help him, though. The frogs provided distraction and more power, like when they attacked the summons and when Bunta put Naruto and Animal Realm in his mouth. The Kyuubi broke Naruto free of Pain and greatly weakened Pain by making him use chibaku tensei. Minato both fixed the seal and gave Naruto hope and confidence. Hell, if it weren't for Hinata, Naruto wouldn't have let Kyuubi take over.

    Naruto is a powerhouse without the Kyuubi's chakra thanks to Sage Mode, but he wasn't that much of a powerhouse. He was more of a shrewd fighter who used combination of tricks to win. That's where Naruto excels, and he's shown that so many times over. He's not as good no matter how much power the Kyuubi gives him.
    All good points but having those assets doesn't decrease his overall ability in Sage Mode. If we remove some story elements and try to interpret how the fight would go in that manner, Naruto would win just like he did without the aforementioned help. If Naruto was settled with his inner demons, i.e. if he knew his worth and that Minato is his dad, the resolve he got when he defeated the last Pain in base mode would be present from the start of the battle. Meaning he would be more proficient and probably wouldn't have to rely on frogs or Kurama.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    I'm not going to go into the pain vs naruto battle because we all know Naruto had no chance at winning by himself just like any other kage. With that being said, Sage mode is definitely kage level. As I said before kage level isn't good enough to beat pain.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    It's definitely not enough to beat Nagato who has all of the Rinnegan abilities with him, no. But as I said, had Naruto the state of mind of when he beat the last path, he would clean them easily.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Are you forgetting Nagato was chakra exhausted and bleeding;making it impossible for God Realm to perform properly?

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    I'm not forgetting anything. With the right state of mind, Naruto finished the fight in base mode. That alone says what kind of a monster he would be in SM.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    I'm not forgetting anything. With the right state of mind, Naruto finished the fight in base mode. That alone says what kind of a monster he would be in SM.
    A path that didn't have enough chakra to perform its best jutsu.
    Naruto would be kage level at best. Meaning Gaara, Oonoki,and A level; those are the strongest Kages. Even if he had unlimited sage chakra, it would change much.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    A path that didn't have enough chakra to perform its best jutsu.
    Naruto would be kage level at best. Meaning Gaara, Oonoki,and A level; those are the strongest Kages. Even if he had unlimited sage chakra, it would change much.
    No, he didn't have time to perform his best jutsu because Naruto finally used his head with the right state of mind. Chakra consumption doesn't matter since it applies to both parties, and both parties were out of chakra since it was the end of the battle.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    No, he didn't have time to perform his best jutsu because Naruto finally used his head with the right state of mind. Chakra consumption doesn't matter since it applies to both parties, and both parties were out of chakra since it was the end of the battle.
    No. God real ST was ineffective against Naruto's clones because he didn't have enough chakra to use it. God real ST can break bones in boss summonings, but can't pop Naruto's clones? Come on.

    Naruto was low on chakra but could still make hundreds of clones, pain jutsu was to weak to pop clones. You tell me that don't make a difference?

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    No. God real ST was ineffective against Naruto's clones because he didn't have enough chakra to use it. God real ST can break bones in boss summonings, but can't pop Naruto's clones? Come on.

    Naruto was low on chakra but could still make hundreds of clones, pain jutsu was to weak to pop clones. You tell me that don't make a difference?
    The hell are you talking about? There's a 5 second gap during which he cannot use the technique. Your argument is invalid and thus chakra doesn't have anything to do with the the fact that Naruto took him down exploiting his weakness.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    No. God real ST was ineffective against Naruto's clones because he didn't have enough chakra to use it. God real ST can break bones in boss summonings, but can't pop Naruto's clones? Come on.

    Naruto was low on chakra but could still make hundreds of clones, pain jutsu was to weak to pop clones. You tell me that don't make a difference?
    Pain said he could make a bigger Chibaku Tensei to restrain an eight tail Naruto. He doesn't seem to be that low on chakra imo.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    The hell are you talking about? There's a 5 second gap during which he cannot use the technique. Your argument is invalid and thus chakra doesn't have anything to do with the the fact that Naruto took him down exploiting his weakness.
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/10
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/11
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/12
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/13

    As I said! God realm ST was to weak to disperse clones because he was chakra exhausted. That's the only thing that allowed Naruto to get a hit in the 5 second range.

    ---------- Post added at 10:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoko View Post
    You are talking about a event that took place 7 chapters before. Are you saying Nagato didn't lose any chakra in seven chapters???

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/10
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/11
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/12
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/442/13

    As I said! God realm ST was to weak to disperse clones because he was chakra exhausted. That's the only thing that allowed Naruto to get a hit in the 5 second range.
    That's not true. It wasn't weak because he was able to destroy the majority of clones that were disguised as the rocks. The quantity of the clones was simply too big to destroy them all. Your argument is still invalid and made up for the sake of having an excuse.

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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    You are talking about a event that took place 7 chapters before. Are you saying Nagato didn't lose any chakra in seven chapters???
    Considering how he still had enough chakra to perform his revival jutsu (he died only because of the amount of people involved not just by using the jutsu), yeah I'm saying he was not that low on chakra.

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