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Thread: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset. <3

  1. #31
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoko View Post
    Considering how he still had enough chakra to perform his revival jutsu (he died only because of the amount of people involved not just by using the jutsu), yeah I'm saying he was not that low on chakra.
    Have you not learn anything from the war about Renni Tensi ?(spelling) that jutsu is a sacrificial jutsu.the user trade his life for lives to be brought back no matter how much or less chakra the user have.

    So no.

  2. #32
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    It's sacrificial depending on the amount of people being revived and/or how long they died. A village full of people? Sacrifice. Someone who died decades ago? Sacrifice.

    Konan said if he uses it now with these chakra levels... That implies it can be used safely under certain conditions (the user has a huge amount of chakra available). Actually I think if Nagato was at full strength, he could probably revive all of Konoha without killing himself.

    One or two people who died a few hours ago? Just requires a lot of chakra which Nagato had at the time. Was he at 100%? No. But the amount of chakra he had did not impede his last fight with Naruto.
    Last edited by Yoko; January 02, 2014 at 02:55 PM.

  3. #33
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoko View Post
    It's sacrificial depending on the amount of people being revived and/or how long they died. A village full of people? Sacrifice. Someone who died decades ago? Sacrifice.

    Konan said if he uses it now with these chakra levels... That implies it can be used safely under certain conditions (the user has a huge amount of chakra available). Actually I think if Nagato was at full strength, he could probably revive all of Konoha without killing himself.

    One or two people who died a few hours ago? Just requires a lot of chakra which Nagato had at the time. Was he at 100%? No. But the amount of chakra he had did not impede his last fight with Naruto.
    If you want to debate the manga(black zestu, Obito), then go ahead. Logic and opinion have no place among facts.

  4. #34
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    If you want to debate the manga(black zestu, Obito), then go ahead. Logic and opinion have no place among facts.
    Yes I'll debate manga fact with the manga the fact that I provided showing that revival is linked to chakra levels and it does not always result in user death. If you want to ignore anything that disagrees with you, then be my guest.

  5. #35
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    All good points but having those assets doesn't decrease his overall ability in Sage Mode. If we remove some story elements and try to interpret how the fight would go in that manner, Naruto would win just like he did without the aforementioned help. If Naruto was settled with his inner demons, i.e. if he knew his worth and that Minato is his dad, the resolve he got when he defeated the last Pain in base mode would be present from the start of the battle. Meaning he would be more proficient and probably wouldn't have to rely on frogs or Kurama.
    It doesn't, but it does show that he likely would have lost to Pain without those assets. Naruto would not have won because if we removed some story elements, we would also have Pain go all out, instead of holding back. This was probably the only fight where an enemy held back a lot against Naruto while being serious.

  6. #36
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    I don't want in any case for Naruto to become the Juubi's Jinchuuriki or being the Jinchuuriki of any other beasts...the image of the Sage of the six paths right behind him is enough to tell me what his next power up will be...He will surely chat with the sage at a specific time while he's supposedly deceased ...then with the sage's powers which have manifested into him because he is his supposed "reincarnation " ...he's gonna go on a rampage...that's always a power up a main character gets when the final villain seems impossible to beat.

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  8. #37
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    SO6P is effectively the Avatar of the Narutoverse, so I would definitely be satisfied with a ying - yang release jutsu that would allow Naruto to bend Madara's chakra and remove his ability to use jutsu. Better than a power up IMO.

  9. #38
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    SO6P is effectively the Avatar of the Narutoverse, so I would definitely be satisfied with a ying - yang release jutsu that would allow Naruto to bend Madara's chakra and remove his ability to use jutsu. Better than a power up IMO.
    Another good idea in fact...I doubt kishi is going to do so...this is a whole new arc meaning it will last more than 40 chapters or so...would be great If the SO6P could actually scold Madara saying he was not worthy for getting all of his DNA because he is not pure-hearted. Though as things seems to be just now ...this current Madara is nearly on the Pre-Jinchuuriki SO6P imo.

  10. #39
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Speaking about power levels of SM
    1) naruto wasn`t able to sync b/c of QB, Now having QB extracted he should be able to sync.
    2) Shanra Tensei power is limited. Nagato didn`t want to use second big one in time like this - simple underground clone whould finish him off (there would be bigger interval, more than mere 5 sec.
    3) We have seen few acts of resisting Shinra tensey:
    1/ Tsunade and ANBU on top of the roof (were overpowered by big one)
    2/ 6-tails QB used tails
    3/ Naruto himself used clone shield+clone support to withstand it.
    if we think carefully about third one we can understand that it`s most efficiant way -
    1. make it`s power lower by shield
    2. resist with additional support.
    If one resist just with support he will be crashed.
    If one just cover himself by shield, shield can be pierced or overpowered.
    So Naruto used few tricks.

    Next point
    When Naruto faced real Nagato there`s different story. He came with intention to talk, he wasn`t intend to fight so he didn`t dodge that rod
    (But he was able to do it the same way he was able to dodge raikage.)
    With Sage Mode he have better reaction, better sensing abilitys, can perform FRS (flying version noone (even Kakashi) even thought it`s even possible)

    Now about his current level (after aftershock go out)
    What am I expecting?
    1) ability to feel even more
    2) some control of nature
    3) he`s gonna summon:
    -frog duo
    -frog trio
    -3(!) frog elders (pa+ma+elder)

    He still have cards.
    Also there`s some chakra of another Bijus. I think he`ll restore their strength using SM techniques with their chakras so he`ll be even stronger than we used to think.
    It will be almost So6P level.

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/555/13
    He can feel danger faster (seems like even faster than in QB mode.
    If you belive in Light - It is becose of obsecurity
    If you belive in joy - It is becose of sadness
    And if you belive in God - It is becose of the Devil.
    (c)Enigma, The rivers of belief (the returning silence)

  11. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    Naruto will be without the kyuubi for about three chapters tops. That's the only reason Minato is still around.
    If this happens, I will litereally cry my eyes out...
    Enough easy mode is enough!

    Like others, I wan't to see Nauto use his brain for once, like when he fought against Pain. He illustrated that he's cable of it, yet, since then he has not shown it again.
    Now is the time for Naruto to shine, and he seriously needs to show that he's more than cable with his own powers, rather than relying on the tailed beasts.

    I certainly don't want to see Naruto get any tailed beast again, before soonest the end of the manga. It's time for Naruto to shine, and not his tailed beast chakra.

  12. #41
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jiraiyanindo's Avatar
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    Re: A Hero must first lose his greatest assets in order to gain his greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It doesn't, but it does show that he likely would have lost to Pain without those assets. Naruto would not have won because if we removed some story elements, we would also have Pain go all out, instead of holding back. This was probably the only fight where an enemy held back a lot against Naruto while being serious.
    I'm not sure pain/nagato held back as much as the timing was what did him in. I agree with the concept you are raising, which is that had any elements of the story changed then maybe naruto would be fighting nagato with all his abilities i.e. shinra tensei and what not. Naruto learning sage mode and being in Mt. Myobukuzan at the time helped him arrive during a time when nagato was 'weakened' and this ultimately helped to determine the course of that battle.

    Hard to say but how would naruto have handled animal path if he had not learned sage mode and had the toads summoned? That is probably the most troublesome power of pain. Jiraiya's whole battle basically was him trying to beat animal path.

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