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Thread: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member druzod's Avatar
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    Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    I am posting this question, because I do wonder why Juha Bach didn' try to kidnap Urahara Kisuke after he defeated Yamamoto.
    We all know that his the most intelligent being in the bleachverse.
    Urahara could be the one to threaten Juha Bach plan of success against the shinigamis.
    So why Juha Bach didn' try to kill him or kidnap him, his beyond strategic reasoning for me.
    Maybe Juha Bach is just being overconfident has all the villains are in general.
    What do you guys think?
    Last edited by druzod; January 04, 2014 at 04:01 PM.
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member raikwolf's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Quote Originally Posted by druzod View Post
    Maybe Juha Bach is just being overconfident has all the villains are in general.
    I believe you just answered your own question... He is too damn overconfident.


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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member druzod's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Quote Originally Posted by raikwolf View Post
    I believe you just answered your own question... He is too damn overconfident.
    That will be is downfall and loss.
    Release the World Engine!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Maybe he already knew Urahara would counter the medallions

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member raikwolf's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    From what he said to Uryu he was waiting for that to happen.


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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Quote Originally Posted by raikwolf View Post
    From what he said to Uryu he was waiting for that to happen.
    Quite, and it seems that he has a hidden plan behind it all, something that he wanted the Shinigami not to realize, drawing their attention elsewhere with their lost bankais.
    He made the shinigami think that his trump card is to steal bankais, when in reality, it was only a distraction.

    Question is, what is he distracting the Shinigami from? and was the first attack on SS a hidden strategy to make this hidden plan a reality which othervice wouldn't work?

    I don't think Ywach is overconfident though, but there will probably be an unknown factor which he did not plan for, and that's Ichigo's true strength. Even if he knows Ichigo's true strength potential, he's going to underestimate how fast he's gaining it.
    I doubt he's seeing Urahara and anyone else as a threat, he's blasting everyone out of the skies at the moment, apparently only Ichigo will be able to stop him.
    So one could say, everything will go to plans, until Ichigo starts handing a$$es to where they belong.

    I don't like repeating predictable patterns though, I find this to be Aizen vs. Ichigo all over again, an overwhelming force, that no one can stop, and only Ichigo's brute force can stop him... I know it's a new atmosphere, new scenes, new graphics, new motivations, but at its core, the plot is the same, so far.
    For once I'd like Ichigo to do something intelligent as well this time, and not just overpower him.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Because Urahara secretly is the main antagonist Can't be evil and locked up in a VR cell.
    Could the Sage of Six Paths be named Sanada Yukimura?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Yhwach seems to be the type that doesn't just destroy what he can use. Despite the Quincy's general ideologies he's perfectly content to use both Arrancar and Shinigami as part of his arsenal. So maybe he has some plan or other for Urahara. As the only other person to have created a Hogyoku, it might be that Yhwach wants to keep Urahara around as a countermeasure to Aizen, who Yhwach has to realise is a treacherous bastard and a potential threat what with the Hogyoku being lodged in his chest. Although that still doesn't explain why he didn't kidnap Urahara and brainwash him or whatever it is he does.

    Then again, Quilge never gave any hint of knowing who he was in HM, and was prepared to kill him before Grimmjow sliced him in two. It might just be that Yhwach knows exactly who he is and is just doesn't see him as a threat.

    ---------- Post added at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 PM ----------

    Although, on this topic, I hope that the reason Yhwach is seemingly unconcerned is that the WR has it's own science division good enough to counter Urahara. Because tbh I don't want too much of Urahara walking onscreen and saying "I invented something" and saving the day through the power of 'Science'. Like with the Hollowfication pill; it wasn't a bad development, but it was just a tad convenient. I didn't mind that so much because it saved time and got the battle moving forward, but yeah, I don't want too much Urahara magic going on unchallenged.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    to be honest wouldn't kidnapping Urahara be more trouble then its worth, i mean the guy is pretty resourceful and knows techniques to get out of pretty much any situation, not to mention the fact that he could gather Intel from being locked up and also give the information he gathers to SS easier then undoing your zipper with gloves on.

    In all honesty i think Ywach is more intelligent then that. Yes he's arrogant but you do have to give him credit he's been on the ball when comes to his strategy's
    Spoiler show

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member FetherMan's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Ywhach isn't exactly a dumb guy. For all we know, he could rival Urahara's intelligence. So far, he hasn't convinced me other wise. Plus, he's a 1,000 years old and I imagine, your intelligence has to increase somewhat with your powers, being that, you know and understand your allies, enemies and comrades / followers.

    ....And there is Mayuri to considered too.

    "I did battle with ignorance today and ignorance won".

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Well, going after urahara has the implication of being the one to make a move against him... which is dangerous in its own right. Juhabach so far has always had an strategic advantage when attacking the shinigami, he can't really do that against kisuke, its a huge and risky gamble. On the other hand kisuke is just one guy and while dangerous I don't really think he alone could turn the tide of the war even if his ability to make a difference is unquestionable. Even then, what urahara did against aizen bordered on dumb luck (his barrier only worked because aizen's power was lowered, an event which urahara in no form or context had influence on) and the medals being dealt with was an event which was already accounted for by the quincy. And to be fairy, juhabach has lead balls the size of jupiter if we consider he wanted to make aizen (the single most brilliant strategic mind in the manga) his subordinate. If juhabach sees aizen as someone he can keep as a subordinate in his army, why are urahara's gimmicks and dumb luck a threat? Besides, the quincy do appear to have their own brilliant minds among them. Someone came up with the volstandig, the medal and perhaps BG9 himself.... Someone among the quincy does appear to have a mind as inventive as urahara's....

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    It's actually unclear what Urahara could do to affect this war. I can see him creating something (like a seal) to get in Yhwach's way, on the other hand I could see the Quincy being a bit above his level to the point that he can't do all that much alone.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, going after urahara has the implication of being the one to make a move against him... which is dangerous in its own right. Juhabach so far has always had an strategic advantage when attacking the shinigami, he can't really do that against kisuke, its a huge and risky gamble. On the other hand kisuke is just one guy and while dangerous I don't really think he alone could turn the tide of the war even if his ability to make a difference is unquestionable. Even then, what urahara did against aizen bordered on dumb luck (his barrier only worked because aizen's power was lowered, an event which urahara in no form or context had influence on) and the medals being dealt with was an event which was already accounted for by the quincy. And to be fairy, juhabach has lead balls the size of jupiter if we consider he wanted to make aizen (the single most brilliant strategic mind in the manga) his subordinate. If juhabach sees aizen as someone he can keep as a subordinate in his army, why are urahara's gimmicks and dumb luck a threat? Besides, the quincy do appear to have their own brilliant minds among them. Someone came up with the volstandig, the medal and perhaps BG9 himself.... Someone among the quincy does appear to have a mind as inventive as urahara's....
    I beg to differ that what Urahara did with Aizen was dumb luck, in fact he pretty much knew what was going to inevitably going to happen to aizen and used that knowledge to his advantage, i do somewhat agree he may not of known ichigo could get to the level he achieved but even then i think he knew the FGT was something that would unify all of ichigo's powers (quincy and shinigami). In some ways i think its pretty safe to say FGT was the 1st legitimate instance where ichigo showed his quincy side.
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member raikwolf's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    I beg to differ that what Urahara did with Aizen was dumb luck, in fact he pretty much knew what was going to inevitably going to happen to aizen and used that knowledge to his advantage, i do somewhat agree he may not of known ichigo could get to the level he achieved but even then i think he knew the FGT was something that would unify all of ichigo's powers (quincy and shinigami). In some ways i think its pretty safe to say FGT was the 1st legitimate instance where ichigo showed his quincy side.
    Totally agree here, dumb luck by Urahara?, not a chance. The guy knew who Ichigo was, the guy hollified Ichigo, the guy trained Ichigo... the guy know everything about Ichigo xD, then he seems to know A LOT of what the RG guys did (Healing springs, modsouls...), he develop a seal for Aizen and beat him because he knew when to use it. Aizen power did low thanks to Ichigo but there's no way that wasn't what he was planning, he must have known that... just as Shinji said: "The were no miscalculations".
    I pretty much put Urahara in same league as Aizen, he clearly says that only Urahara surpass him in wisdom, maybe not power... but we don't even know how powerful he is, maybe he even have a hollow mas (anything is possible). I guess that the reason why Ywach tried to convince Aizen is simply because he already fought against SS and Ywach my think "the enemy of my enemy is my allied"... of course we don't know Aizen's intentions either LOL, this is a bunch of I don't know xD


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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Why Juha Bach didn't order to kidnap Urahara?

    Aizen's defeat occured due to the following factors:

    1.- Ichigo getting his transcendental powers at the right time while training for something completely different (he was going for a zampakuto technique, not godly powers)
    2.- Aizen loosing his powers thus making him vulnerable to shinigami kido.

    Given what we saw if either of those things had not happened then aizen would not have been defeated. Ichigo accidentally stumbling into godhood was a fundamental factor into whatever lead to aizen loosing his powers. Now, how in the hell could urahara plan for any of that? Did urahara have anything to do with ichigo reaching godhood? As far as we know, no. Even ichigo can barely be credited for that if we consider that his actual intent was an ordinary zampakuto technique. Did urahara have anything to do with aizen loosing his powers? As far as I can tell, no. What evidence is there that urahara had any sort of influence over this events? How could urahara know ichigo would acquire godhood? If he did, why would the way to that be ichigo learning a zampakuto technique? The manga made the point that what made aizen loose his powers was not in itself the result of taking damage or anything of the sort, ichigo made the point that what caused that came from within aizen. How in the hell can urahara account for that? Even if we assume urahara planned for aizen to go through some inner change so as to make the orb take away power from him, wouldn't the implication be that urahara's "plan" was merely a bunch of things over which we have no reason to believe he had any degree of control over happening in a very specific way which he in no way influenced?

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