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Thread: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
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    Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    It's been a possible prediction for a good while now, but it seems that there are little next to no discussion on the area, so here we go!

    Kenpachi and Byakuya are complete opposites, for one Kenpachi is from the slums, and Byakuya is from the highest level of society, a Noble.
    Byakuya is delicate, agile, uses strategy, kido, abilities, flashsteps, and what else, all the while Kenpachi uses pure strength, fights in slow speed, simple fighting (no tricks), and on and on.

    Yet Byakuya and Kenpachi appear to be equal in power.

    There are other opposites, feel free to add to them.

    This thread is to discuss how Kenpachi and Byakuya will remain equals in the future.
    It's a give away that Kenpachi is a deadly powerhouse now, so in order for Byakuya to stay Kenpachi's equal, he needs some powerups. Conveniently enough, he's in the Royal Palace, of all places, right now!

    So will they remain equal in strength and be opposite in nature? and if so, what kind of powers and abilities will they both get, if staying equa rivalsl.

    There are other threads to discuss Byakuya's strength, but few discussions based on Byakuya needing to stay in rivalry sync with Kenpachi, assuming this really is what Kubo want, so far it sems like it.

    Thoughts? Ideas? What will Byakuta need to reach Kenpachi's new level? and how?
    Last edited by Quantized; January 06, 2014 at 02:59 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Kenpachi's got raw nasty power, Byakuya's got speed, defense, and kido.
    They seem to even out since Byakuya has what Kenpachi lacks and vice-versa.

    If they fought, I believe Kenpachi would win in the end. He's just too powerful.

    For the future, Kenpachi has just learned the name of his zanpakutou. This is a step in the right direction. For Kenpachi, at least.

    For Byakuya to retain his level compared to Kenpachi, something about his bankai has to change. Perhaps he, too, has undergone the same training Renji has and has gotten a sizeable power-up.

    In any case, I believe Kubo is setting them both up to be major game changers in this battle.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Hakuteiken could potentially fuck Kenpachi up pretty badly. Also, I'm curious about Kenpachi's resistance to Kido. Bakudo #61 could render him helpless.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BaddAzzKenpachi74's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta42 View Post
    Hakuteiken could potentially fuck Kenpachi up pretty badly. Also, I'm curious about Kenpachi's resistance to Kido. Bakudo #61 could render him helpless.
    Kenpachi is a absolute POWERHOUSE now, who's already monstrous reatsu has now even reached new heights after having all of it unlocked after his fight with Unohana.

    I doubt a bakudo #61 could render him helpless, just like i doubt it would do much to Yama who Kenpachi (in terms of raw power) should be close to now.

    As far as the topic is concerned, well Byakuya is definitely going to get a big powerup judging by what Renji is showing us, but right now we have a Kenpachi who has not only had all of his limits released, but also has recently learned the name of his zanpakuto which opens even more potential for him to to make yet another huge jump in power.

    Byakuya is going to need something phenomenal to catch up to him now, but luckily as you said he is in the right place for such a powerup which is the Royal Palace.

    Live for battle, enjoy every minute, death is the price u pay for a good battle, live to kill, no fear.
    by Kenpachi Zaraki
    . ("Discuss This" http://discussthis.freeforums.org/index.php

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    He doesn't need anything really but the training/"gifts" from the RG.

    He was already pretty much the perfect example of a Captain, but with this training, he should be somewhere near Zaraki's level.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Think of Byakuya and Kenpachi like Sasuke and Naruto. Sasuke doesn't ever have to equal Naruto in power because the things he's skilled at make the advantage in power negligible if not outright worthless. His strengths lie elsewhere... and are far, FAR more plentiful.

    In fact...
    Spoiler: If this were an arena thread... show


    Whatever increase in power is achieved by Byakuya or Kenpachi it's important to remember that Kenpachi coming up with a bankai isn't all that believable. He technically doesn't even have Shikai, since he hasn't learned the name of his sword yet. He's training now sure, but I think realistically he'll only go up to shikai, leaving more room for growth (so realistically, only about 5 times what he showed against Unohana... or however much shikai is supposed to increase your power). Byakuya however, if Renji is any indication, will grow by a level that's "greater than anything he could achieve on his own", as per Hikifune's claim. Renji grew to senior captain levels all the way from VC levels. That's way, way more than what simply achieving a shikai or bankai can do for you.

    There is something to be said for Kenpachi finally awakening the potential he locked away years ago, but without knowing the strength of the captain he killed, or that captains strength level compared to characters like Unohana and Byakuya, there's no real way to guage whether whatever he achieves will be comparable to the colossal boost Byakuya has in store.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Whatever increase in power is achieved by Byakuya or Kenpachi it's important to remember that Kenpachi coming up with a bankai isn't all that believable. He technically doesn't even have Shikai, since he hasn't learned the name of his sword yet. He's training now sure, but I think realistically he'll only go up to shikai, leaving more room for growth (so realistically, only about 5 times what he showed against Unohana... or however much shikai is supposed to increase your power). Byakuya however, if Renji is any indication, will grow by a level that's "greater than anything he could achieve on his own", as per Hikifune's claim. Renji grew to senior captain levels all the way from VC levels. That's way, way more than what simply achieving a shikai or bankai can do for you.

    There is something to be said for Kenpachi finally awakening the potential he locked away years ago, but without knowing the strength of the captain he killed, or that captains strength level compared to characters like Unohana and Byakuya, there's no real way to guage whether whatever he achieves will be comparable to the colossal boost Byakuya has in store.
    Well, Kubo could give Kenpachi a Bankai without creating too many plotholes. Shikai can already be considered a given, since Kepachi's Zan started communicating with him. Bankai can be achieved by subjugating Zanpakuto and I imagine someone like Kenpachi, who was already one of the strongest Shinigami in SS without his power limit removed without even a Shikai, wouldn't need to train 10 years in order to achieve Bankai. In fact, there's no telling how fast he could achieve it. If he entered into his inner world right away and had a fight like Ichigo, he could already have Bankai.

    Peronally, I don't think he achieved it already. But on the other hand, that would kinda suck. Because, if we don't see Kenpachi's Bankai now, we probably never will.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Using another Naruto analogy, I consider Kenpachi to be someone like Rock Lee. Part of his appeal is that every fight for him is a handicap match because he can't use ninjutsu. If Lee could run around spitting fireballs or dropping lightning bolts on people it would ruin the very thing that causes people to be huge fans of his.

    If Kenpachi has access to some special ability that would be achieved with bankai (or the huge size difference that bankai's usually have over shikais) then his fighting style would change and he wouldn't be Kenpachi anymore. Like, look at all of his fights up until now. I can't see Kenpachi getting the same glee out of his fights if he has to wield something as big as Komamura's bankai or Mayuri's. I think even a Buster Sword would be pushing it since he'd have a ranged advantage.

    I guess what I'm getting at is too much of a boost would result in a personality change that I'm not sure Kenpachi's fans would welcome. Though that works against Byakuya as well because there are certain character aspects of him that could limit his growth as well. If he gets too much of a power boost, or something that turns him into a Kenpachi-style brute, the very thing that makes HIS fans love HIM will be tossed away as well. His pride and demeanor and versatility will be thrown away for a straightforward brawling Kenpachi style, which most Byakuya fans despise (myself being one of them).

    For both of these reasons I think Kubo will figure out a way to limit both Byakuya and Kenpachi's growth. Either by not letting Byakuya train as long as Renji and preventing Kenpachi from having Bankai... or by making Byakuya's (and Renji's) boosts only temporary thanks to the food's effects wearing off, and Kenpachi choosing to seal his power away again after defeating whoever he's sent to fight. For the thrill of the fight.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Giving Kenpachi a Bankai doesn't automatically mean his entire fighting style would change. There are all kinds of different types of Bankai. What if it created an enclosed arena where his enemies receive a power boost to be evened out with him? That would allow him to have fun fighting.
    But that's just an example I thought of now. His Bankai doesn't have to be anything close to a gigantic sword or something that changes his fighting style completely.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Knightmare of heaven 0's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Given how a Zanpakutou reflects a Shinigami's personality,Zaraki's Zanpakutou might work in a way such that it makes him and his opponent even in someway in a battle.It'll work only against a weaker opponent I guess,Zaraki doesn't seem like a guy who'll wet himself against stronger opponents,Infact he challenges them. Now that Zaraki has realised that he was restraining himself and could only hear his Zanpakutou after that,It could be something destructive.A huge sword with which he fights barbariacly and doesn't hold back at all.I could be wrong and Zaraki's Zanpakutou powers might work in the former way.

    Zaraki has this rivarly thing with Byakuya.It will not be surprising if Byakuya just comes out about on the same level as Zaraki for whatever reason.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BaddAzzKenpachi74's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post

    If Kenpachi has access to some special ability that would be achieved with bankai (or the huge size difference that bankai's usually have over shikais) then his fighting style would change and he wouldn't be Kenpachi anymore. Like, look at all of his fights up until now. I can't see Kenpachi getting the same glee out of his fights if he has to wield something as big as Komamura's bankai or Mayuri's. I think even a Buster Sword would be pushing it since he'd have a ranged advantage.

    I guess what I'm getting at is too much of a boost would result in a personality change that I'm not sure Kenpachi's fans would welcome.

    Big Kenpachi fan here, and I must say I would welcome a Kenpachi with a bankai and slight character change in a heartbeat.

    As evident by his fight with Unohana, his outlook on fighting is already starting to change, and he even is able to speak to his sword now which is something he has been wanting since the Ichigo fight, which was also a change in character for him since before the Ichigo fight he did not give 2 shits about his sword.

    Its not like this has not be forshadowed before, why else do you think he wanted to learn the name of his sword in the first place?

    He wanted to be able to utilize the full power of his sword, and him getting a bankai doesn't mean he will do a complete 180 as far as he personality goes.

    He could still fight like a maniac berserker with a bankai or a awakened shikai for that matter, we do not know what powers his sword holds, for all we know it may compliment his current fighting style nicely.

    The only thing that would turn me off is if he started to want to learn shunpo or kidou and other outside abilities, but that sword is a part of him, there is nothing wrong with him realizing its full potential in my opinion.

    Live for battle, enjoy every minute, death is the price u pay for a good battle, live to kill, no fear.
    by Kenpachi Zaraki
    . ("Discuss This" http://discussthis.freeforums.org/index.php

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Quote Originally Posted by BaddAzzKenpachi74 View Post
    Big Kenpachi fan here, and I must say I would welcome a Kenpachi with a bankai and slight character change in a heartbeat.

    As evident by his fight with Unohana, his outlook on fighting is already starting to change, and he even is able to speak to his sword now which is something he has been wanting since the Ichigo fight, which was also a change in character for him since before the Ichigo fight he did not give 2 shits about his sword.

    Its not like this has not be forshadowed before, why else do you think he wanted to learn the name of his sword in the first place?

    He wanted to be able to utilize the full power of his sword, and him getting a bankai doesn't mean he will do a complete 180 as far as he personality goes.

    He could still fight like a maniac berserker with a bankai or a awakened shikai for that matter, we do not know what powers his sword holds, for all we know it may compliment his current fighting style nicely.

    The only thing that would turn me off is if he started to want to learn shunpo or kidou and other outside abilities, but that sword is a part of him, there is nothing wrong with him realizing its full potential in my opinion.
    I think you're right about not really wanting to see Kenpachi suddenly using kido, etc. Part of what makes the Kenpachi/Byakuya rivalry work is that Kenpachi is into brute force and fighting for the sake of fighting, while Byakuya is a moral fighter who is skilled in multiple areas and has a 'no screwing around' approach to fighting. He states why he's there, looks for his opening and makes a surgical strike meant to kill (This only didn't work for him vs Ichigo and As Nodt.). Kenpachi plays with his opponents. And the two are just rollicking fun when they fight a foe while arguing with each other.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    While there's really no evidence suggesting Zaraki can use Shunpo, he was shown that he can move fast, Shunpo or not.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-563-14...apter-109.html

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

  15. #14
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BaddAzzKenpachi74's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    While there's really no evidence suggesting Zaraki can use Shunpo, he was shown that he can move fast, Shunpo or not.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-563-14...apter-109.html

    Pretty sure that he can not use Shunpo.

    That is just him using his raw power to increase his running speed to that point.

    He can't Shunpo, but he can come pretty darn close to it given his raw power that he utilizes when running.

    So I do not understand why people always try to downplay his speed simply because he does not know how to Shunpo.

    Live for battle, enjoy every minute, death is the price u pay for a good battle, live to kill, no fear.
    by Kenpachi Zaraki
    . ("Discuss This" http://discussthis.freeforums.org/index.php

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya & Kenpachi ~ Rivalry, opposite characters, yet similar role in story.

    Don't know who was downplaying it.

    I think he can do Shunpo pretty well, since it's like one of the more basic Shinigami skills, and some Shinigami lower ranked than Kenpachi use it. But as I said, it was never shown he was using Shunpo specifically. Not that it really matters.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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