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Thread: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

  1. #1
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    Juhabach has been going strong at the whole war thing for a while now. However his ultimate objective is not to beat the gotei 13, it can't be. The gotei 13 are merely a stepping stone as far as we know. Juhabach aims to destroy the world and change it to his liking something which can only be achieved by getting to the soul king, the one urahara described as the lynchpin that holds everything together. However getting to the soul king is not small feat, the guy resides in an inaccessible dimension on top of SS. Aizen went through huge amounts of trouble to get a key and he still didn't get to that. So that leaves the question, how does juhabach plan on getting in to the royal dimension?

    So far the only alternative the manga has ever given in regards to this is the spirit key which is forged from a huge concentration of souls. In context what would make the most sense is that juhabach plans on acquiring a soul key somehow. At this stage in the manga an alternative to it existing would be a huge blow to the plot if we consider that aizen didn't come up with an alternative to the key even when putting the full power of his intellect behind the issue. I guess quincy have their own science and whatnot but I would still argue the plot would suffer from an alternative to a key.

    So with a key being the most logical alternative the issue here is how exactly juhabach plans on using/getting one. As it stands there are actually at most 6 keys in existence at any given time. Before the manga explained that the royal key was in the bones of the royal guards aizen had made the point that only the captain commander knew where the royal key was and that such information was passed by word of mouth. Now, it is entirely possible that only yamamoto knew the key was in their bones however it is also possible that a secret key existed so that in case of the direst of situations they could communicate with SS greatest war asset (and of course yamamoto wouldn't have had a chance of using it). Now, if we assume no such secret key exists or that juhabach will be unable to acquire it the only solution they would have is to create a key by their own means which is IMO the more interesting alternative mainly because it has been a huge plot point in the manga for so long.

    So the question would be whether juhabach plans on going about this the same way as aizen did (using a butload of human souls) or perhaps developing a method over 1000 years. One thing that so far does not make sense at all is the destruction of hollows at the start of the series. Why reveal themselves like that to shinigami? Well, they did go about it rather weirdly eventually however killing hollows at that stage would not benefit the war as a whole and it would certainly not benefit the worlds they are trying to gain control over. What if juhabach plans on making a soul key out of hollow souls? If he gathers enough souls then all he would need is a place like karakura town and he would not have to use innocent humans. Juhabach has no moral qualms about how he wins the war but perhaps murdering 100000 people just like that would not sit right with the dangerous and unstable army he is leading. The quincy are able to create things out of nothing with their abilities, perhaps they would even be able to create their own high density reishi area with their abilities. So they could potentially already have the souls and location to make the key. A jureichi should not even be hard to come up with for that matter. The jureichi seems to be a location saturated with spirit particles so just having a bunch of strong people in a particular area would actually do the trick. If juhabach plans on using hollow souls then perhaps he has already set up a location in HM. Las noches would actually be a pretty good place to deal with this considering the arrancar that still lived there.

    Any thoughts or alternative theories? I think this is one of the bigger plot points left so how juhabach deals with this should be an interesting discussion topic.

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    Assuming Juhabach's goal is to reach SK, i think while destroying SS and then ultimately destroying balance doing so i feel this would have an effect on the Royal Realm, if the Soul king has created this dimension and his powers are connected to the balance of souls being forever flowing then Juhabach's plan to destroy SS would surely cause huge imbalances for the soul king to keep control of things all dimensions including his own would essentially become one.
    Spoiler show

  3. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    As you've quite rightfully said, Yhwach's primary goal isn't to eliminate the Gotei-13, yet he seems to be very laid back...almost as if he's waiting for something.

    I can only speculate at this point, but I have a definite feeling that Haschwalth's balancing ability has a vital role to play in Yhwach's plan, as demonstrated by the execution of the Sternritter members who lost; it was apparent he wasn't just killing them off because they're worthless, but as a sacrifice of sorts. This leads me to believe he's allowing the weaker members of his forces to lose to give himself a fair disadvantage, which will then be turned into an advantage of equal magnitude by Haschwalth's ability; this boost may give Yhwach the power that he needs to overthrow the Soul King...when he gets there...

    Which brings me back to the topic of discussion; he's spending all of this time doing the above, yet he doesn't appear to be bothered about how he's actually going to get to the Royal Dimension...that suggests to me he already has a way to get there, so all he's got to do now is acquire enough power to overthrow the Soul King before he actually departs. As to his actual means of getting there; who knows? Perhaps he has an Ouken from a previous alliance with the Shinigami, or perhaps he plans to get into the Royal Dimension via Ichigo or Aizen somehow?

    Another possibility could be that he has no intention of invading the Royal Dimension, and is simply showing his defiance against the Soul King by crushing his forces in the Seireitei. It would certainly be giving the Soul King the finger to invade every realm and perch his throne within the Seireitei, even if he doesn't get into the Royal Dimension (he's basically taunting the Soul King from just outside his home)!
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    There might be several ways. Like you said the Quincy have their own science/abilities so they could probably concentrate reishi enough to produce a key.

    Then there's the balance of the worlds, if they disrupt that then shouldn't the royal realm be easier to access?

    It could also be why he is executing his subordinates, to gather their dense reishi which is probably the equivalent of many many human souls already. Quincies seem to basically be humans anyway so it could work.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    I was just thinking.. Was he really aiming for the Soul King? Won't that destroy the balance of the worlds and everything just crumble??? Sorry i had more questions than answers..lol

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    ^ Urahara said that killing the Soul King would cause SS to crumble, but he never mentioned the other worlds. But I wonder if that killing the actual individual, or just leaving the throne empty. If someone killed him and then took his place, would SS remain? Don't know...

    Either way, I doubt Yhwach cares. I wouldn't put it past him to eradicate SS in it's entirety. In fact, perhaps that's his intention. In a way, the only way to compensate for completely obliterating all Hollow life, which may or may not be a goal, would be to completely wipe out SS, and put an end to the balance full stop. Assuming it works that way, that is. It would take out Wandenreich (the place, not the organisation) as well, but the Quincy can always rebuild. Just speculation, tbh I'm not 100% convinced Yhwach's goal is even similar to Aizen's. Where Aizen wanted to dominate, I can imagine Yhwach simply wants to destroy and leave Quincy as the reigning spiritual beings.

    As for reaching the Soul King, because I'm sure that is at least part of it. He seems well-versed enough in the Royal Realm's method of operation to have known that the RG would come down with the G13 battered and the fact that he then moved his realm into Seireitei would suggest that he knew the RG wouldn't be staying or coming back to join the fight. Also his "nine days" thing shows that he's got a definite timetable in mind. Maybe he's waiting for the RG to come down as soon as he's had his way with the G13, and when he's through with them he'll use one of them as a key. The possibility of that alone is a good enough reason for the RG to just stay out of this, but if the Wandenreich destroy the G13, only Hollows and Quincy will be operating and that spells destruction for everybody.

    So that's my guess. Finish off the G13, collect his War Potentials, then when the RG come down in response, capture them and use their Oukens.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member FetherMan's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    Kubo never laid out Ywhach's actual plan or his goal. So far, Ywhach merely took over Hueco Mundo and raided Soul Society, with the intent of bringing destruction to their forces. Also, one of his primary goals for the first raid on SS was to acquire Aizen and his abilities.

    Ywhach wants a war period. With who could be the Soul King or something else entirely. I don't think, this entire story line is cleared up yet as far as what the villain wants and the motivation behind it. There's still a tad bit of information being held back on Kubo's part regarding the Quincy and their overall motives. Besides, the series still has 7 years left to conclude, so will still have a great bit of story left to look forward to.

    "I did battle with ignorance today and ignorance won".

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    I just have this feeling that Yhwach and the Soul King are connected; both are extremely powerful, both are rulers of their respective races...and here's the really interesting part...both seem to have recently been in a state of hibernation...
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

  9. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    ^ Interesting, I hadn't considered the hibernation angle, although I've always thought Yhwach and the Soul King may well be connected. That's another potential similarity, though it's still kind of questionable. The Soul King was obviously awake at some point, since he handed down the order for the RG to get to SS before we later saw him waking up in his palace. So we still don't know what condition he's been in over the millennium Yhwach spent dozing. Then again, it was said that he very rarely acts, so he might well have been periodically hibernating.

    But I do think the Soul King may be the progenitor of Shinigami just as Yhwach is the progenitor of Quincy. Maybe. Yhwach might be an equal opposite, or just a rebel upstart. The fact that he seems to age, and that he was defeated by Yamamoto, who was ridiculously powerful but still technically a mere underling of the Soul King, would kind of indicate that Yhwach is a lesser being. On the other hand, he's by no means a weakling, and it's not like we know exactly what happened between him and Yama 1000 years ago. He might just have run out of time. Also, he's apparently able to give Arrancar Quincy-esque powers, and boost the powers of his own (Quilge hinted that he could adjust the strength of Blut, plus I reckon Royd was only able to keep up with Yama because Yhwach gave him a boost), which seems kind of similar to the Soul King's ability to grant the power of Ouken.
    Dunno, won't be able to tell for certain until we learn more about the Soul King. Still, I do sense a connection between the two.

    I wonder how far back Yhwach goes. If he is indeed the Soul King's equal there could be some interesting history. Little theory - what if SS actually began as a blank template? Perhaps the form it takes depends entirely on who sits on the throne. If Yhwach was on it, the whole of SS would be moulded into a reflection of him, if you know what I mean. So maybe there was a power struggle between him and SK, and SK won, took the seat, and made SS in his image. Aizen made his own attempt, now Yhwach is trying again.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    I would argue that the soul king being potentially the origin of shinigami would be something distinct from his actual duties as soul king. As far as juhabach being a counterpart to it I think there is an important context difference to consider. The soul king is not king just because he boned enough to start a type of souls, the soul king has actual duties which he performs from his dimension which regard the existence of the world itself. As far as we know juhabach is not currently anything like that, his existence does not hold reality from crumbling. He is just some dude who boned enough to have a military organization made entirely from his descendants. As far as the world is concerned juhabach could die and no one would know better. In turn the SK dying and not being replaced would likely have dire consequences for all those that have to continue existing and whatnot.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member BrunoGF's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    If I recall correctly I don't remember Juhabach saying he wants to get to the Soul King.
    An easy way to face him would be destroying everytihng and everyone, Gotei 13 and Royal Guard included, until the Soul King would be needed to fix everything.

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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    It could be that if Yhwach has a plan to enter the Royal Dimension is connected to his hollow massacre, since that creates an imbalance and the dimensions start to slowly break apart. Karakura town has shown several tears and although we haven't seen one in SS is possible the they could start appearing there, he could be planning to use this tears to somehow access the RD.
    please click on them to help them grow.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrunoGF View Post
    If I recall correctly I don't remember Juhabach saying he wants to get to the Soul King.
    An easy way to face him would be destroying everytihng and everyone, Gotei 13 and Royal Guard included, until the Soul King would be needed to fix everything.
    It wouldn't make sense that he didn't plan on getting to the soul king though. If they defeat the gotei 13 they still have to face the royal guard and ultimately it is taking the seat of the king that will give juhabach the ability to change things to his liking. If they take out the gotei 13 they could at most take control of sereitei and take over shinigami duties. If they take over the king's throne they can change the world itself as juhabach becomes the new lynchpin. Juhabach wants to destroy the world however as I see it the necessary step for him to build it anew would have to be becoming the soul king.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Twar's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    If Juhabach's motive was simply to overthrow the Soul King and cause chaos, you'd think Aizen would have no objections to joining his cause (due to the apparent discontent he showed against the whole institution of SK). His disagreement could suggest either that this isn't Juhabach's plan or Aizen is convinced that if he were to help him, Juhabach would go on to replace SK as "lynchpin", merely changing the name of the ruler, not the game.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: How does Juhabach plan on getting to the soul king?

    And Aizen doesn't want to be anyone's subordinate anyway, and even if he wanted to, Aizen wants to become the Spirit King or eliminate it. Maybe Yhwach wants the throne for himself.

    I still don't see though why Yhwach thinks Aizen would serve him when Aizen could probably oneshot him. Another thing that points to Yhwach getting a powerup, his current state is not enough when Aizen and Ichigo are out there.

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