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Thread: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet. <3

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet. <3

    So let's talk, you guys. Which is which?

    I've been defending Kishi pretty fervently lately. Partly because of the sheer negativity on the forums lately, but also because I feel like there's a misunderstanding between different types of bad writing. Let's get this out of the way: I don't know if it's executive meddling or Kishi himself, but Kishi is fucking terrible at pacing. He'll stretch out things that don't need to last for 50 chapters but will gloss over things his fans have been drooling over for 300 chapters, or off-panel certain fights that seem utterly unfair to the reader to off-panel. While this is bad sequential art, it's not necessarily bad writing. In a lot of ways, I feel like Naruto would be better off as a series of light novels... despite the fact that my entire future has been engineered by Kishi in the direction of comic-author (because of his art, no less)... and the fact that I can't read a story without a sequence of pictures... but I digress.

    There is a difference between asspull and poor execution... I'm just not sure anymore where one ends and the other begins, which is the point of this thread. Can you admit when you're just being impatient for the week-by-week plot to move forward, or have you honestly uncovered an example of irrevocable bullshit on Kishi's part? I think the distinction is important if I'm going to keep reading this forum, because the posts have been pretty diluted with mindless cynicism lately, even at chapters that don't deserve it.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member IChallengeYou!'s Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    example of a plothole:

    obito

    no matter how much kishi tried to serve the fanboys, the revelation itself was full of plotholes

    using ms powers to slip through the boulders before he awakened ms
    hair inconsistency
    power inconsistency
    eye inconsistency
    logic inconsistency
    motivation inconsistency
    i dont watch cartoons, but probably the voices are inconsistent as well, and i wouldnt be surprised why
    etc etc etc

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    example of a plothole:

    obito

    no matter how much kishi tried to serve the fanboys, the revelation itself was full of plotholes

    using ms powers to slip through the boulders before he awakened ms
    hair inconsistency
    power inconsistency
    eye inconsistency
    logic inconsistency
    motivation inconsistency
    i dont watch cartoons, but probably the voices are inconsistent as well, and i wouldnt be surprised why
    etc etc etc
    I don't like Obito much, but I feel like Kishimoto has sufficiently explained all of these.
    Except the hair part. That doesn't need explaining.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    I don't like Obito much, but I feel like Kishimoto has sufficiently explained all of these.
    Except the hair part. That doesn't need explaining.
    You sure? Even Obito slipping through boulders before awakening the Mangekyou Sharingan?
    - Zeref's Infinite Rage

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member BL-Tomoe's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    I believe that he awakened it back then, he close to death and all... and he "lost" his love - or Madara just lied to him. When it comes to certain things we REALLY need to see Madaras story, what he did behind the shadows, if he was involved with Rins death and other events...


    And obito... I really believe it was planned right from the beginning, at least from the Kakashi gaiden on, but Kishi overdid it with the hints and so he wanted to lure us readers away from that theory. It wasn't the best way, but I always thought that Obito would be Tobi, it just fitted perfectly... and since we saw Hashi and Tobirama, I expected to see Madara at some Point as well...

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Quote:
    Of course it is. You just "read" 2-3 chapters of the manga in one sitting. It's not that the war arc is that bad, it's just that people can't grasp the concept of how slow things progress in manga on a weekly basis and they project that as bad writing. Try reading the war arc again from the beginning. It will be a lot better than when you read it slowly weekly.
    As far as pacing and bad writing goes, I wrote this in one of the episode discussions. Asspulls on the other hand is something I don't like to discuss because the etiquette befalls the matter which is not liked by the readers. It all comes down to an opinion.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    You sure? Even Obito slipping through boulders before awakening the Mangekyou Sharingan?
    I thought Madara wasn't being literal, more like a foreshadow to the power Obito would unlock.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    The biggest plot hole in the manga so far for me at least is the akatsuki rings. They were supposed to be important.... Orochimaru kept his and that was supposedly an issue for akatsuki IIRC and zetsu went out of his way to look for one a while back (I think it was deidara's). So... what is the deal here? Kishi just forgot about those altogether.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    He also forgot about "that jutsu" (we never got the official confirmation on what exactly that was, we only guessed) and the unique unknown Mangekyou Sharingan power you supposedly get when you awaken it.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    You sure? Even Obito slipping through boulders before awakening the Mangekyou Sharingan?
    You're just taking madara's words too seriously. If obito is indeed activated his MS ability then his body wouldn't really being crushed. But hey, half of his body was being repaired by madara, right? He lost an arm and leg. So technically, he didn't slip through that rock but rather he was being hit and crushed.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    You're just taking madara's words too seriously. If obito is indeed activated his MS ability then his body wouldn't really being crushed. But hey, half of his body was being repaired by madara, right? He lost an arm and leg. So technically, he didn't slip through that rock but rather he was being hit and crushed.
    No, what you said is exactly what I believe. How on earth he could have slipped through the boulders when his body was crushed. (?!) That sounds completely unrealistic but yet Madara said so, I think as he was too old, he could be day-dreaming from time to time lol.
    - Zeref's Infinite Rage

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Example of an asspull (or, to say it more politely, a bad Deus ex Machina): Izanagi. Kishi pulled it out of his ass, just so that Tobi wouldn't die in Konan's explosive tags.

    Obito is a plothole. We're not supposed to explain what Madara's words about him "slipping through boulders" meant - Kishi is, and he doesn't do that. He just throws an obfuscated poor excuse of an explanation. Obito's motivation is also worth less than the shit that's always on Spiral Zetsu's mind. The hair was never explained, and the power is just attributed to the magical potion of the whole war arc, Hashirama's cells.

    Quote Originally Posted by GLaDOS
    Your whole life has been a mathematical error.
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Curtarc's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    He also forgot about "that jutsu" (we never got the official confirmation on what exactly that was, we only guessed) and the unique unknown Mangekyou Sharingan power you supposedly get when you awaken it.
    About "that jutsu", that's something that has bothered me for a long time. I mean, has Kishi said anything on an interview about "that jutsu"? Did he confirm that it was in fact using the Kyuubi's power? I find it odd that if "that jutsu" was in fact the Kyuubi's cloak nothing else has been said about it in the manga since then. If Kishi hasn't confirmed anything yet on some kind of interview it only makes things even more suspicious.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    Example of an asspull (or, to say it more politely, a bad Deus ex Machina): Izanagi. Kishi pulled it out of his ass, just so that Tobi wouldn't die in Konan's explosive tags.
    I disagree with that. You can't really call it a deus ex machina because it existed before his fight with Konan. Plus it was explained that it was a forbidden technique developed by the Uchiha clan. Izanami Would fit the bill of deus ex machina given the fact that it Came into existence specifically to defeat Kabuto, And Trap him inside an illusion despite his complete and utter prevention And precautions to such an event. Why Kishimoto chose to make the only female member of the organization a complete and utter failure out of everyone within the same group, I have no clue. However, izanagi Was not the deus ex machina, It wasn't new. Izanami, however, was.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    The biggest plot hole in the manga so far for me at least is the akatsuki rings. They were supposed to be important.... Orochimaru kept his and that was supposedly an issue for akatsuki IIRC and zetsu went out of his way to look for one a while back (I think it was deidara's). So... what is the deal here? Kishi just forgot about those altogether.
    That's far from being the "biggest" plot hole. There are some errors that are just blatantly obvious.

    I.e.: It was mentioned more than once that Orochimaru left Akatsuki 7 and 10 years ago in Part I and II respectively. It has also been made clear that he has been part of Akatsuki at the same time as Itachi, and even mentioned he was the reason he left when Itachi was introduced, which would make Itachi 10 at the time. That's not just ridiculous, but according to Tobi, Itachi joined Akatsuki after the massacre of the clan, and we even got to see a grown-up Itachi fighting Orochimaru dressed-up as an Akatsuki.

    That's a huge ass plot hole, which was there since Part I. Apparently Kishimoto messed up when mixing up the backstories of a 50 years old with that of a teen.
    Last edited by Fox666; January 24, 2014 at 11:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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