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Thread: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet. <3

  1. #16
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    I don't like Obito much, but I feel like Kishimoto has sufficiently explained all of these.
    Except the hair part. That doesn't need explaining.
    Could you point out where those explanations were, because I would very much be interested in seeing them.

    Aside from Obito, I think the biggest issue has been the timeline. It's nearly impossible to understand when events have gone down, especially when Kishi keeps retconing and ignoring things.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    That's far from being the "biggest" plot hole. There are some errors that are just blatantly obvious.

    I.e.: It was mentioned more than once that Orochimaru left Akatsuki 7 and 10 years ago in Part I and II respectively. It has also been made clear that he has been part of Akatsuki at the same time as Itachi, and even mentioned he was the reason he left when Itachi was introduced, which would make Itachi 10 at the time. That's not just ridiculous, but according to Tobi, Itachi joined Akatsuki after the massacre of the clan, and we even got to see a grown-up Itachi fighting Orochimaru dressed-up as an Akatsuki.

    That's a huge ass plot hole, which was there since Part I. Apparently Kishimoto messed up when mixing up the backstories of a 50 years old with that of a teen.
    When did Orochimaru say he left when Itachi joined? I thought some time had passed since Itachi joined and Orochimaru left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Curtarc View Post
    About "that jutsu", that's something that has bothered me for a long time. I mean, has Kishi said anything on an interview about "that jutsu"? Did he confirm that it was in fact using the Kyuubi's power? I find it odd that if "that jutsu" was in fact the Kyuubi's cloak nothing else has been said about it in the manga since then. If Kishi hasn't confirmed anything yet on some kind of interview it only makes things even more suspicious.
    It's either a thing that Kishi hasn't gotten to yet or explained. Maybe he already showed it to us, but we don't know. Could be oodama rasengan, could be being able to alter the seal like he did to free and trap the Kyuubi, could be anything. Might not even be deux ex machine if Naruto busts it out and references it back to Jiraiya telling him it's dangerous, though it seems to need the Kyuubi.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curtarc View Post
    About "that jutsu", that's something that has bothered me for a long time. I mean, has Kishi said anything on an interview about "that jutsu"? Did he confirm that it was in fact using the Kyuubi's power? I find it odd that if "that jutsu" was in fact the Kyuubi's cloak nothing else has been said about it in the manga since then. If Kishi hasn't confirmed anything yet on some kind of interview it only makes things even more suspicious.
    If it's a jutsu, then I doubt it's Kurama's chakra/power. He didn't state anything that we would remotely add factual description. We can only guess.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudobito's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Something I would like to add as well, I remember Naruto trying to create a new technique in KCM , Tailed Beast Rasengan ( not Tailed Beast Bomb ), well seriously we haven't seen it at all and Naruto seems to have forgot about it completely himself or he actually preferred the use of Tailed Beast Bombs over it for some reasons. I would at least like to see how the technique is executed and its destructive capacity but as Naruto lost his BM cloak, the chances for it are probably near nil.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    I think it's a jutsu that has to do with Kyuubi's chakra. Jiraiya said not to use that jutsu because it was too dangerous, and I assume he was talking about that jutsu when he told the sealing frog Minato wanted to pass down a jutsu to Naruto, which needed the Kyuubi's chakra to be used.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Something I don't get is Madara fighting Onoki and Muu. He was wearing the Konoha headband and it seemed Hashirama was Hokage at the time, so I'm confused as to why Madara was fighting them in the first place and when did it occur in relation to him defecting from Konoha.

    Why Hashirama is the only Senju everybody is trying to get a piece of. If the Senju clan is descended from the young son of Sage of the Six Paths, then why can't Orochimaru, Danzo, Madara, etc steal a random Senju body. The whole clan should have Hashirma's amazing life force. Yet only Hashirama's DNA is getting passed around.

    How did Obito keep the Jinchuriki Mizukage under a genjutsu/control him? Perfect jinchuriki are supposed to be immune to genjutsu.

    These are things I don't get. Either they weren't explained or I'm not remembering something (probably the latter).

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Plot holes... let's see.

    Sasuke vs. Kabuto: Sasuke uses Amaterasu against Muki Tensei, a Senpou (charged with Natural Energy/Sage Chakra). The Amaterasu is so hot it forces the cave to go back to normal. Canon proof that Enton>Sage Chakra. Then, Sasuke faces Obito and he and Naruto hit him later with an Enton FRS and... absolutely nothing happens.

    I would've accepted that he had too large of an amount of natural energy in his body. Or that he absorbed it with Hungry Ghost's path. But instead he was just hit head on and the reason it did nothing is because now, only natural energy can hurt someone with natural energy? Bullshit. It wasn't even because of those magic balls that negate ninjutsu either, since the Sage Rasengan hit his body just like the Enton FRS did, and the god damn Sage Rasengan did more damage to him than the combined power of an FRS and a Kagutsuchi, even with elemental amplification.

    I wouldn't call this a plot hole though so much as a retcon to prevent Sasuke from doing too much.

    EDIT: Oh! And the biggest one is why the FUCK no one has attempted to cast a Genjutsu on Naruto. I want canon proof that Kurama can avoid having his chakra suppressed like what Sasuke did to him at the beginning of Part 2. No, I don't buy that "Naruto has a bijuu so he's immune to Genjutsu" bullshit either, because Yagura was a perfect Jinchuuriki and yet he was controlled for years by Obito's Genjutsu. I got NO reason to believe it wouldn't happen to Naruto.

    That's right. I believe this war could've been won by Madara simply looking Naruto in the eye the moment he got on the battlefield, suppressing his chakra so he couldn't strengthen the alliance with Kurama shrouds, and then murdered him at his liesure. No reason to believe it couldn't happen. Whatsoever.
    Last edited by ninjabot; January 27, 2014 at 08:33 PM.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    greatest asspull of all asspulls

    sasuke summoning a random hawk mid air during his battle with danzou

    that shit was just awesome

    Last edited by REN KOUEN; January 27, 2014 at 09:03 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudobito View Post
    You sure? Even Obito slipping through boulders before awakening the Mangekyou Sharingan?
    I'm of the opinion that Madara lied to him to plant the idea in his head that he would/could have such a power. Madara has all the knowledge in the world about what sharingan does what, apparently. All he had to do was have Zetsu set up the scenario of ultimate despair where Kakashi, the wielder of the other eye, kills Rin, the living bond between Kakashi and Obito- and voila, Kamui is unlocked. Even for a sharingan-user, Obito seemed to have quite a hold on how to use Kamui with just his instincts... Madara subliminally planted the thought in his head that gave him a hint to his own potential.

    Madara didn't have to say anything like that to have Obito's tumbling into Madara's hideout believable, either. Kishi could have just shown (and probably will at some point) that Zetsu simply grabbed Obito and pulled him through the earth into Madara's lair. Also strikes away the huge coincidence that Obito just happened to cave into Madara's passageway.

    ---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by REN KOUEN View Post
    greatest asspull of all asspulls

    sasuke summoning a random hawk mid air during his battle with danzou

    that shit was just awesome

    Now that is a magnificent asspull. We need a whole flashback gaiden to show just what the hell Sasuke was doing and when that he could have made that contract. When he had the time/privacy to train in secret on his Chidori variants is another (albeit smaller) asspull, imo. For someone who's had so much spotlight, Sasuke sure has had a lot of extracurricular adventures away from the reader.

    ---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Plot holes... let's see.

    Sasuke vs. Kabuto: Sasuke uses Amaterasu against Muki Tensei, a Senpou (charged with Natural Energy/Sage Chakra). The Amaterasu is so hot it forces the cave to go back to normal. Canon proof that Enton>Sage Chakra. Then, Sasuke faces Obito and he and Naruto hit him later with an Enton FRS and... absolutely nothing happens.
    Kabuto endowed the cave with life energy (yang) through the use of senjutsu. The heat of Amaterasu "killed" the cave's life energy and reverted it to normal. Obito's attacks weren't some living abomination, they were just Inyouton/multi-element chakra manipulation. This nowhere-near means that Enton > Senjutsu. They're apples and oranges.

    Quote Quote:
    I would've accepted that he had too large of an amount of natural energy in his body. Or that he absorbed it with Hungry Ghost's path. But instead he was just hit head on and the reason it did nothing is because now, only natural energy can hurt someone with natural energy? Bullshit. It wasn't even because of those magic balls that negate ninjutsu either, since the Sage Rasengan hit his body just like the Enton FRS did, and the god damn Sage Rasengan did more damage to him than the combined power of an FRS and a Kagutsuchi, even with elemental amplification.
    Specifically, only natural energy can harm someone who hosts the juubi. It's also probable that if a senjutsu-user (like Madara is now) becomes the juubi's jin, he won't have such a weakness. The juubi's jin just can't be harmed by conventional means, and requires senjutsu-powered attacks. Not sure what was wrong with that part- Enton FRS wasn't sage-powered. That rasengan was, so it did damage.

    Quote Quote:
    EDIT: Oh! And the biggest one is why the FUCK no one has attempted to cast a Genjutsu on Naruto. I want canon proof that Kurama can avoid having his chakra suppressed like what Sasuke did to him at the beginning of Part 2. No, I don't buy that "Naruto has a bijuu so he's immune to Genjutsu" bullshit either, because Yagura was a perfect Jinchuuriki and yet he was controlled for years by Obito's Genjutsu. I got NO reason to believe it wouldn't happen to Naruto.

    That's right. I believe this war could've been won by Madara simply looking Naruto in the eye the moment he got on the battlefield, suppressing his chakra so he couldn't strengthen the alliance with Kurama shrouds, and then murdered him at his liesure. No reason to believe it couldn't happen. Whatsoever.
    There is NO proof that Obito ever used a genjutsu on Yagura. In fact because we know of the jinchuuriki's power against genjutsu, it seems most likely Obito controlled him through more conventional means. Like holding his family/friends hostage the whole time or something more pedestrian like that. I do want to see why Kurama recognized Sasuke's malevolent chakra when he showed up in Naruto's jinchuuriki realm. That still makes little sense to me, but it's more of a mystery than an asspull at this point.

    ---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    When did Orochimaru say he left when Itachi joined? I thought some time had passed since Itachi joined and Orochimaru left.
    He didn't. He said he left after he failed to take Itachi's body and Itachi lopped off his hand. We don't know how much time passed between Oro joining, then Itachi joining, then the attempt on Itachi's body and Oro's defection. The timeline is pretty scrunched up at that point, but I don't think it's impossible.

    Quote Quote:
    It's either a thing that Kishi hasn't gotten to yet or explained. Maybe he already showed it to us, but we don't know. Could be oodama rasengan, could be being able to alter the seal like he did to free and trap the Kyuubi, could be anything. Might not even be deux ex machine if Naruto busts it out and references it back to Jiraiya telling him it's dangerous, though it seems to need the Kyuubi.
    I've always taken it to mean control over Kurama's power in general. Kishi should have never used the phrase "that jutsu", lol.

    ---------- Post added at 05:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    The biggest plot hole in the manga so far for me at least is the akatsuki rings. They were supposed to be important.... Orochimaru kept his and that was supposedly an issue for akatsuki IIRC and zetsu went out of his way to look for one a while back (I think it was deidara's). So... what is the deal here? Kishi just forgot about those altogether.
    This was a genuinely dropped thread. Those things were super-important until the story shifted to Rikudou and Senju/Uchiha being the only important things ever.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    When he had the time/privacy to train in secret on his Chidori variants is another (albeit smaller) asspull, imo. For someone who's had so much spotlight, Sasuke sure has had a lot of extracurricular adventures away from the reader.
    Was it stated Sasuke developed his chidori variants in secret or Orochimaru had no idea Sasuke could do them? If not, then I think Orochimaru just trained Sasuke into manipulating/releasing his chakra more efficiently and in different ways (such as releasing chidori current all over his body) and or maybe gave hints to Sasuke and it allowed him to develop these jutsus. Since Orochimaru stopped Sasuke from using what appears to be Kirin, he probably knew of Sasuke's chidori variants. At least, it looked like Kirin...which is odd since he didn't have the necessary condition to use it (storm clouds, atmosphere)
    Last edited by Yoko; January 31, 2014 at 02:07 AM.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Some of the biggest asspulls and other nonsense include, but are not limited to, the following:
    • Madara sealing bijuu in a matter of seconds when initially it took 3+ days to do it
    • Sharingan went from "Copy Wheel Eye" to "Do-Whatever-You-Want Eye"
    • Kage Bushin memory retcon
    • Hashirama being confirmed the strongest Hogake, when initially it was the Sandaime
    • Everything with Nagato
    • Oro being revived (again!)
    • Danzou being retconned into insignificance
    • Tobi having the power to teleport anywhere, whenever, with whoever he wants, and then sitting on his ass for 15+ years when it came to gathering bijuu
    • Sasuke getting stronger by throwing a tantrum in the Danzou fight
    • Naruto getting stronger by thinking happy thoughts in the Kyuubi fight
    • Whatever plot development occurs to conveniently revive Naruto + Sasuke more powerful than ever after Madara curbstomping the both of them

    The one asspull that tops everything else though is "the Tobi is da mastermind!" BS. One of the laziest attempts in recent memory at streamlining the plot I have ever seen. The story would have remained more coherent had Nagato remained the main villain instead of being replaced by a villain with a gamebreaking power who had no foreshadowing whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    He also forgot about "that jutsu" (we never got the official confirmation on what exactly that was, we only guessed) and the unique unknown Mangekyou Sharingan power you supposedly get when you awaken it.
    "That jutsu" is Naruto going Kyuubi. Jiraiya spent the timeskip unlocking the Kyuubi power in order for Naruto to combat kage-level threats. Unfortunately, the training was a failure as there was no one in Akatsuki Naruto could beat with that power.

    With the Sharingan, it develops whatever power is convenient for the plot atm.

    Quote Originally Posted by REN KOUEN View Post
    greatest asspull of all asspulls

    sasuke summoning a random hawk mid air during his battle with danzou

    that shit was just awesome

    Spoiler show
    I beg to differ. Second biggest asspull after "the Tobi is da mastermind!" BS: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-320-3/n...apter-315.html
    Last edited by Franckie; January 31, 2014 at 10:03 AM.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    This thread is gold! I am not able to pay too much attention to the whole Naruto Saga since ... well some time now...
    But most of the things here remind me of all the randomness i expierenced during that time.
    Yeah Naruto felt like just some Random Shit coming up every now and then. It defies its own rules every now and then too. So you can never predict what happen, and thats why i am not even trying to fully understand the plot as a whole anymore.

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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist
    Kabuto endowed the cave with life energy (yang) through the use of senjutsu.
    No he didn't.

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/582/3

    "Giving life" simply means animating. He didn't really give it life, let alone life energy. Unless you saw a different translation somewhere that actually mentions Youton, or that the cave was literally alive.

    I'll grant you that the wiki states he puts his lifeforce inside of the technique, but it mysteriously decides not to link to where the manga actually mentions this.
    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Ar..._Reincarnation

    Quote Quote:
    The heat of Amaterasu "killed" the cave's life energy and reverted it to normal. Obito's attacks weren't some living abomination, they were just Inyouton/multi-element chakra manipulation.
    I never said anything about his attacks, I pointed out how Sasuke and Naruto hit Obito's body with the Enton FRS, and no damage was done to it. His body was permeated with natural energy, and the "jutsu negation" power only comes from the orbs that weren't blocking the Enton FRS, so the fact that the Enton didn't harm Obito isn't justified.

    Quote Quote:
    This nowhere-near means that Enton > Senjutsu. They're apples and oranges.
    If an Enton hits a Senpou, the Senpou would lose to the Enton thanks to it's natural energy (or the Sage Chakra that makes it up) being burned away, just like what happened with Muki Tensei. That is definately reason enough to say Enton > Senjutsu. It's no different from saying Katon > Wind.

    Quote Quote:
    Specifically, only natural energy can harm someone who hosts the juubi. It's also probable that if a senjutsu-user (like Madara is now) becomes the juubi's jin, he won't have such a weakness. The juubi's jin just can't be harmed by conventional means, and requires senjutsu-powered attacks. Not sure what was wrong with that part- Enton FRS wasn't sage-powered. That rasengan was, so it did damage.
    They were harming the Juubi before it was inside Obito without using natural energy, but that's not the point. My point is that the Juubi isn't a giant ball of chakra like the other bijuu. It's a giant ball of natural energy. And we've seen what happens when Enton hits a mass of natural energy... or rather something fueled by natural energy: it negates it (Muki Tensei). That's reason enough to believe that Sasuke's Enton should be able to hurt Obito, let alone Sasuke's Enton powered up by an FRS. But nothing happened.

    Why?

    Quote Quote:
    There is NO proof that Obito ever used a genjutsu on Yagura.
    Bullshit there isn't: http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/459/15

    Ao saw it with his Byakugan. It was Genjutsu. Even if it wasn't Obito who did it, we've got canon proof right there that all that "being a perfect jinchuuriki makes you immune to Genjutsu" nonsense is... nonsense.

    Perfect Jinchuuriki are perfectly capable of being caught with Genjutsu.

    Perfectly. Even more awesome about it is that he was controlled for what seems like days, with Obito arriving and forcing him to do as he wishes at different points in time like it was nothing. You're telling me neither Madara nor Obito can just look at Naruto and make him eat a kunai? Fuck that.

    Kishi's just gonna make all of Naruto's opponents opt out of using Genjutsu "just because". Just like how Kubo saved Ichigo from having to learn a way to defeat Kyouka Suigetsu.
    Last edited by ninjabot; January 31, 2014 at 08:56 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member enmymiguel's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    the biggest asspull, naruto ending the war by himself and getting asspull to deal with the situation when we know he was not good.

    he try to do a beast bomb and he was not able, but when the situation happen, he was able to make a gigantic one who was able to match the power of 6 beast combine, when kurama has only half of hes power.
    I must create a real village, until i demonstrate what a real kage is. I cant Die!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Asspulls, plotholes, things you just don't get, and things that Kishi just hasn't gotten to yet.

    the most ridiculous things to happen with this manga? well there are quite a few:

    1. Obito being Tobi.
    2. Obito forming Akatsuki to seal the beasts when he could have gathered them all by himself and set his plan into motion years ago.
    3. Hashirama's cell becoming solution to every plothole there could have been.
    4. Replacing eyes becoming as simple as plucking an eye from someone and putting it back in someone else's socket.
    5. Sharingan spawning new abilities whenever the plot asks for it.
    6. Naruto having the ability to activate Full Biju mode for five minutes only at first. Not much time has passed, but he can keep it al night and day long while distribute chakra to the alliance who are thousands in number.

    i feel tired already. this is enough for now.
    Naruto Forever


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