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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Aside from Obito, I think the biggest issue has been the timeline. It's nearly impossible to understand when events have gone down, especially when Kishi keeps retconing and ignoring things.
Something I would like to add as well, I remember Naruto trying to create a new technique in KCM , Tailed Beast Rasengan ( not Tailed Beast Bomb ), well seriously we haven't seen it at all and Naruto seems to have forgot about it completely himself or he actually preferred the use of Tailed Beast Bombs over it for some reasons. I would at least like to see how the technique is executed and its destructive capacity but as Naruto lost his BM cloak, the chances for it are probably near nil.
I think it's a jutsu that has to do with Kyuubi's chakra. Jiraiya said not to use that jutsu because it was too dangerous, and I assume he was talking about that jutsu when he told the sealing frog Minato wanted to pass down a jutsu to Naruto, which needed the Kyuubi's chakra to be used.
Something I don't get is Madara fighting Onoki and Muu. He was wearing the Konoha headband and it seemed Hashirama was Hokage at the time, so I'm confused as to why Madara was fighting them in the first place and when did it occur in relation to him defecting from Konoha.
Why Hashirama is the only Senju everybody is trying to get a piece of. If the Senju clan is descended from the young son of Sage of the Six Paths, then why can't Orochimaru, Danzo, Madara, etc steal a random Senju body. The whole clan should have Hashirma's amazing life force. Yet only Hashirama's DNA is getting passed around.
How did Obito keep the Jinchuriki Mizukage under a genjutsu/control him? Perfect jinchuriki are supposed to be immune to genjutsu.
These are things I don't get. Either they weren't explained or I'm not remembering something (probably the latter).
Plot holes... let's see.
Sasuke vs. Kabuto: Sasuke uses Amaterasu against Muki Tensei, a Senpou (charged with Natural Energy/Sage Chakra). The Amaterasu is so hot it forces the cave to go back to normal. Canon proof that Enton>Sage Chakra. Then, Sasuke faces Obito and he and Naruto hit him later with an Enton FRS and... absolutely nothing happens.
I would've accepted that he had too large of an amount of natural energy in his body. Or that he absorbed it with Hungry Ghost's path. But instead he was just hit head on and the reason it did nothing is because now, only natural energy can hurt someone with natural energy? Bullshit. It wasn't even because of those magic balls that negate ninjutsu either, since the Sage Rasengan hit his body just like the Enton FRS did, and the god damn Sage Rasengan did more damage to him than the combined power of an FRS and a Kagutsuchi, even with elemental amplification.
I wouldn't call this a plot hole though so much as a retcon to prevent Sasuke from doing too much.
EDIT: Oh! And the biggest one is why the FUCK no one has attempted to cast a Genjutsu on Naruto. I want canon proof that Kurama can avoid having his chakra suppressed like what Sasuke did to him at the beginning of Part 2. No, I don't buy that "Naruto has a bijuu so he's immune to Genjutsu" bullshit either, because Yagura was a perfect Jinchuuriki and yet he was controlled for years by Obito's Genjutsu. I got NO reason to believe it wouldn't happen to Naruto.
That's right. I believe this war could've been won by Madara simply looking Naruto in the eye the moment he got on the battlefield, suppressing his chakra so he couldn't strengthen the alliance with Kurama shrouds, and then murdered him at his liesure. No reason to believe it couldn't happen. Whatsoever.
Last edited by ninjabot; January 27, 2014 at 08:33 PM.
greatest asspull of all asspulls
sasuke summoning a random hawk mid air during his battle with danzou
that shit was just awesome
Last edited by REN KOUEN; January 27, 2014 at 09:03 PM.
Madara didn't have to say anything like that to have Obito's tumbling into Madara's hideout believable, either. Kishi could have just shown (and probably will at some point) that Zetsu simply grabbed Obito and pulled him through the earth into Madara's lair. Also strikes away the huge coincidence that Obito just happened to cave into Madara's passageway.
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---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------
Specifically, only natural energy can harm someone who hosts the juubi. It's also probable that if a senjutsu-user (like Madara is now) becomes the juubi's jin, he won't have such a weakness. The juubi's jin just can't be harmed by conventional means, and requires senjutsu-powered attacks. Not sure what was wrong with that part- Enton FRS wasn't sage-powered. That rasengan was, so it did damage.Quote:
There is NO proof that Obito ever used a genjutsu on Yagura. In fact because we know of the jinchuuriki's power against genjutsu, it seems most likely Obito controlled him through more conventional means. Like holding his family/friends hostage the whole time or something more pedestrian like that. I do want to see why Kurama recognized Sasuke's malevolent chakra when he showed up in Naruto's jinchuuriki realm. That still makes little sense to me, but it's more of a mystery than an asspull at this point.Quote:
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I've always taken it to mean control over Kurama's power in general. Kishi should have never used the phrase "that jutsu", lol.Quote:
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Last edited by Yoko; January 31, 2014 at 02:07 AM.
Some of the biggest asspulls and other nonsense include, but are not limited to, the following:
- Madara sealing bijuu in a matter of seconds when initially it took 3+ days to do it
- Sharingan went from "Copy Wheel Eye" to "Do-Whatever-You-Want Eye"
- Kage Bushin memory retcon
- Hashirama being confirmed the strongest Hogake, when initially it was the Sandaime
- Everything with Nagato
- Oro being revived (again!)
- Danzou being retconned into insignificance
- Tobi having the power to teleport anywhere, whenever, with whoever he wants, and then sitting on his ass for 15+ years when it came to gathering bijuu
- Sasuke getting stronger by throwing a tantrum in the Danzou fight
- Naruto getting stronger by thinking happy thoughts in the Kyuubi fight
- Whatever plot development occurs to conveniently revive Naruto + Sasuke more powerful than ever after Madara curbstomping the both of them
The one asspull that tops everything else though is "the Tobi is da mastermind!" BS. One of the laziest attempts in recent memory at streamlining the plot I have ever seen. The story would have remained more coherent had Nagato remained the main villain instead of being replaced by a villain with a gamebreaking power who had no foreshadowing whatsoever.
With the Sharingan, it develops whatever power is convenient for the plot atm.
Last edited by Franckie; January 31, 2014 at 10:03 AM.
This thread is gold! I am not able to pay too much attention to the whole Naruto Saga since ... well some time now...
But most of the things here remind me of all the randomness i expierenced during that time.
Yeah Naruto felt like just some Random Shit coming up every now and then. It defies its own rules every now and then too. So you can never predict what happen, and thats why i am not even trying to fully understand the plot as a whole anymore.
No he didn't.Originally Posted by badluckartist
"Giving life" simply means animating. He didn't really give it life, let alone life energy. Unless you saw a different translation somewhere that actually mentions Youton, or that the cave was literally alive.
I'll grant you that the wiki states he puts his lifeforce inside of the technique, but it mysteriously decides not to link to where the manga actually mentions this.
I never said anything about his attacks, I pointed out how Sasuke and Naruto hit Obito's body with the Enton FRS, and no damage was done to it. His body was permeated with natural energy, and the "jutsu negation" power only comes from the orbs that weren't blocking the Enton FRS, so the fact that the Enton didn't harm Obito isn't justified.Quote:
If an Enton hits a Senpou, the Senpou would lose to the Enton thanks to it's natural energy (or the Sage Chakra that makes it up) being burned away, just like what happened with Muki Tensei. That is definately reason enough to say Enton > Senjutsu. It's no different from saying Katon > Wind.Quote:
They were harming the Juubi before it was inside Obito without using natural energy, but that's not the point. My point is that the Juubi isn't a giant ball of chakra like the other bijuu. It's a giant ball of natural energy. And we've seen what happens when Enton hits a mass of natural energy... or rather something fueled by natural energy: it negates it (Muki Tensei). That's reason enough to believe that Sasuke's Enton should be able to hurt Obito, let alone Sasuke's Enton powered up by an FRS. But nothing happened.Quote:
Bullshit there isn't: http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/459/15Quote:
Ao saw it with his Byakugan. It was Genjutsu. Even if it wasn't Obito who did it, we've got canon proof right there that all that "being a perfect jinchuuriki makes you immune to Genjutsu" nonsense is... nonsense.
Perfect Jinchuuriki are perfectly capable of being caught with Genjutsu.
Perfectly. Even more awesome about it is that he was controlled for what seems like days, with Obito arriving and forcing him to do as he wishes at different points in time like it was nothing. You're telling me neither Madara nor Obito can just look at Naruto and make him eat a kunai? Fuck that.
Kishi's just gonna make all of Naruto's opponents opt out of using Genjutsu "just because". Just like how Kubo saved Ichigo from having to learn a way to defeat Kyouka Suigetsu.
Last edited by ninjabot; January 31, 2014 at 08:56 PM.
the biggest asspull, naruto ending the war by himself and getting asspull to deal with the situation when we know he was not good.
he try to do a beast bomb and he was not able, but when the situation happen, he was able to make a gigantic one who was able to match the power of 6 beast combine, when kurama has only half of hes power.
the most ridiculous things to happen with this manga? well there are quite a few:
1. Obito being Tobi.
2. Obito forming Akatsuki to seal the beasts when he could have gathered them all by himself and set his plan into motion years ago.
3. Hashirama's cell becoming solution to every plothole there could have been.
4. Replacing eyes becoming as simple as plucking an eye from someone and putting it back in someone else's socket.
5. Sharingan spawning new abilities whenever the plot asks for it.
6. Naruto having the ability to activate Full Biju mode for five minutes only at first. Not much time has passed, but he can keep it al night and day long while distribute chakra to the alliance who are thousands in number.
i feel tired already. this is enough for now.