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Thread: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

  1. #16
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    In order to win but produce no harm you must be truly above your enemy, we saw her parrying with Suleiman and avoiding his attacks but even with her ally(s) she couldn't take any of the bigshots and you may say that she got not enough time to do so but in the same panels she was fighting Suleiman, Bellamy took someone we knew the name of (Tank Lepanto). She was struggling already thus she is not strong enough to defeat those opponents with that style.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spam286 View Post
    Out of interest, do you believe Bartolomeo won his block by luck?

    It comes down to how you view the advent of Hakuba. Is he a character in his own right or a glorified technique of Cavendish's? Does his appearance come with stipulations? Does he hit everyone in range once, or does he have a specific time-limit, or did he actively choose to go back to sleep when he did? And was that because he thought he'd taken everybody out or was it because he was bored?

    If you see him as a character unto himself with no real stipulations except his own will, then Rebecca was probably lucky he chose to go back to sleep when he did. If his appearance is more like a technique and has caveats, either a time-limit or a one-hit-per-person thing, then luck doesn't really factor into it. Rebecca just avoided the attack like no one else did. Without knowing for sure it's sort of impossible to say either way.
    So you want to say that Cavendish become this popular and with a bounty of 250 000 000 with a technique that have a time attack of few seconds then go to sleep, and he never fought someone strong enough to not fall against him for few seconds because if what you assume is true the Cavendish should be acptured a long time ago.

    Even so lets say that you are right, its still luck that she won, because simply Cavendish slept, as I said she is not the strongest one in her block but she still won so she was lucky, its as simple as that. I'm not saying she is weak but she is not the strongest one in her block and all the circumstances that happened in the block D played in her favor.

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    MangaHelper 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Syphin's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Oda has conveyed it countless times in One Piece, strength does not solely determine who the victor in a fight is. Determining who the victor of each Block would be based on just strength goes against what Oda has conveyed in the past 735 chapters. The circumstances of the arc are the determining factors in which the victor of a fight/battle is decided. Oda even had a [significant] character expressly state that it isn't strength/fighting ability alone which determines victory:

    Spoiler show

    Even if Cavendish had gotten up and continued to attack, he wouldn't have won. This arc had structured itself around Rebecca serving a key role and being defeated in the D Block would go against that, she would win regardless if Cavendish attacked her a thousand times - Rebecca has the power of being a main arc character. More then "luck", it is the circumstances of the arc which determined Rebecca to be the winner as she is one of the main players in this Dressrosa Arc, up there with Luffy and Doflamingo in importance.

    If Oda see's it as necessary for Rebecca to win the Corrida Colosseum and/or receive the Mera Mera no Mi, then that is what would happen regardless of whether she is not the strongest contestant in the final Colosseum match. The Mera Mera no Mi will likely go to Sabo, but I can see Oda working out a situation in which Rebecca retains her "Undefeated" status and wins the Corrida Colosseum battle.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    She saw through Cavendish's attack and dodged it. Definitely not luck, especially since she's undefeated in the arena. By the way, Barto also won because he saw through Elizabello's attack and blocked it with a barrier, while it took out everyone else, including Elizabello himself. So both he and Rebecca won in very similar ways. And Cavendish and Elizabello lost in similar ways. So the most we can say for sure is that if Cavendish didn't go to sleep, it would've been a longer fight. If you want to call that luck, I guess you can go ahead. Sabo didn't call it luck, though. I think he'd know (Doflamingo wasn't there and was doing the "I'm-a-villain-and-talking-down-to-the-good-guys" bit that villains do).

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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by llaubacher View Post
    Well, then let's say she would have to carry her head in both of her palms as it would be split in two halves. She was fast enough to notice of Hakuba's movements, however, even though she moved to avoid it, Hakuba was still fast enough to lay a hit on her. If she had not had the helmet, she would have been done for.
    I suggest you read the full post. I dont understand why you wrote this.

  7. #21
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Spenzi's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by llaubacher View Post
    Well, then let's say she would have to carry her head in both of her palms as it would be split in two halves. She was fast enough to notice of Hakuba's movements, however, even though she moved to avoid it, Hakuba was still fast enough to lay a hit on her. If she had not had the helmet, she would have been done for.
    well let's say Cavendish didn't carry his sword. What would happen then? It was allowed to bring armor so she did. If you'd go in that ring and they tell you that you can take swords and shields with you, would you take them with you or not? Rebecca did the right thing and it wasn't luck. Doflamingo said that because he's evil and evil people in mangas do say such nonesense things.
    22.01.2014: Vivi is going to participate the Reverie this year with King Cobra. And she'll finally join Luffy's crew.

    Possible new nakama IMO:
    Kin'emon / Momonosuke / Rebecca / Bellamy / Ceaser Clown / Mancherie / Leo / Wicca / Kanjuro / Bartolomeo


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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrs View Post
    She saw through Cavendish's attack and dodged it. Definitely not luck, especially since she's undefeated in the arena. By the way, Barto also won because he saw through Elizabello's attack and blocked it with a barrier, while it took out everyone else, including Elizabello himself. So both he and Rebecca won in very similar ways. And Cavendish and Elizabello lost in similar ways. So the most we can say for sure is that if Cavendish didn't go to sleep, it would've been a longer fight. If you want to call that luck, I guess you can go ahead. Sabo didn't call it luck, though. I think he'd know (Doflamingo wasn't there and was doing the "I'm-a-villain-and-talking-down-to-the-good-guys" bit that villains do).
    It has nothing to do with Barto who was not lucky and who wasn't the only one to notice the King's attack, and the difference that he has a devil fruit that helped him to defend himself also we saw him beat the crap of a higher up in the marines, and when he was fighting he was winning with ease and not doing much effort, same thing applies to Blackbeard first Captain and a bit less Luffy because he was fighting a former 500 000 000 wanted pirate, but Rebecca, she was having a very hard time with some fodders, Oda needs her for the advance of the story or maybe he needs Cavendish to help in the SOP operation so he made him loose, whatever everyone says Rebecca is just too weak, remember the guy who always bullied her and get smashed by Luffy with less than a punch.

    Even if we cannot compare the strength in one piece but there is a limit to that, I can accept people discussing who is stronger between Luffy and Law or Luffy and DD but to go and say Rebecca is stronger than Cavendish and deserves her win is just not acceptable.

  9. #23
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Spam286's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachibukai View Post
    In order to win but produce no harm you must be truly above your enemy, we saw her parrying with Suleiman and avoiding his attacks but even with her ally(s) she couldn't take any of the bigshots and you may say that she got not enough time to do so but in the same panels she was fighting Suleiman, Bellamy took someone we knew the name of (Tank Lepanto). She was struggling already thus she is not strong enough to defeat those opponents with that style.
    There are many fallacies in that statement. First, that the same number of panels = the same time frame. It doesn't. Second, that Suleiman and Tank Lepanto are comparable in strength when there's zero evidence for it and third that those two confrontations are somehow equivalent when the situation and characters in question are completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by amizou View Post
    So you want to say that Cavendish become this popular and with a bounty of 250 000 000 with a technique that have a time attack of few seconds then go to sleep, and he never fought someone strong enough to not fall against him for few seconds because if what you assume is true the Cavendish should be acptured a long time ago.

    Even so lets say that you are right, its still luck that she won, because simply Cavendish slept, as I said she is not the strongest one in her block but she still won so she was lucky, its as simple as that. I'm not saying she is weak but she is not the strongest one in her block and all the circumstances that happened in the block D played in her favor.
    You're still saying Rebecca wasn't capable of winning her block without substantiating it with evidence. (I'll go ahead and say in advance that I don't find Rebecca's scuffle with Luffy compelling enough evidence to prove she's weaker than Cavendish, so you'll have to find something else.)

    Quote Originally Posted by amizou View Post
    It has nothing to do with Barto who was not lucky and who wasn't the only one to notice the King's attack, and the difference that he has a devil fruit that helped him to defend himself also we saw him beat the crap of a higher up in the marines, and when he was fighting he was winning with ease and not doing much effort, same thing applies to Blackbeard first Captain and a bit less Luffy because he was fighting a former 500 000 000 wanted pirate, but Rebecca, she was having a very hard time with some fodders, Oda needs her for the advance of the story or maybe he needs Cavendish to help in the SOP operation so he made him loose, whatever everyone says Rebecca is just too weak, remember the guy who always bullied her and get smashed by Luffy with less than a punch.

    Even if we cannot compare the strength in one piece but there is a limit to that, I can accept people discussing who is stronger between Luffy and Law or Luffy and DD but to go and say Rebecca is stronger than Cavendish and deserves her win is just not acceptable.
    So wait, a thing that happened to a character's advantage (the King Punch wiping block B except Barto who was able to block) is not comparable to a thing that happened to a character's advantage (Hakuba wiping block D except for Rebecca who was able to dodge)? One is luck while the other is pure skill? You're still determining this based on things that didn't happen, i.e. Barto winning block B without the aid of the King Punch and Rebecca losing block D without Hakuba. You're making assumptions and using them to justify your arguments.

    Also, what constitutes 'having a very hard time' and 'fodders' in this scenario? Rebecca was still in and still untouched when Hakuba appeared. The only actual fodder we saw her fighting were the ones she despatched with consummate ease. Unless you're implying that the named characters in block D are also 'fodders' in which case I would ask: 'fodder for whom?' and 'how can you substantiate that with evidence?'

    As for Spartan, again you're substantiating an argument with assumptions, in this case that the reason she was bullied was because she was too weak to defeat Spartan. We don't know the nature of the bullying that took place, so there's nothing to back up your claims except your own beliefs.

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  11. #24
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Beatrice's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Yeah, let's everyone remember Spartan when it comes to Rebecca being "Weak", cause it's not like Dressrosa hates her guts and Spartan being a Sexist (and Muscle Brained) and even tried to "bully" Luffy right?Not to forget it's OoC for Rebecca to hurt anyone.
    And "Get's smashed by Luffy in less than a punch", sorry but what?IT'S LUFFY.What he does means nothing considering his power.

    Goddammit, everywhere I go People pull out this Spartan crap cause apparently they think bullying automatically equates to beating the crap out of someone.
    She's just the "Root of all Evil" for people on Dressrosa, and in this case Spartan was also a guy who believed a Gladiator has to be a like 4m tall muscle mountain of a man.


    Quote Quote:
    we saw her parrying with Suleiman and avoiding his attacks but even with her ally(s) she couldn't take any of the bigshots and you may say that she got not enough time to do so but in the same panels she was fighting Suleiman, Bellamy took someone we knew the name of (Tank Lepanto). She was struggling already thus she is not strong enough to defeat those opponents with that style.
    You people have a twisted definition of "Struggling", apparently "Struggling" now equates to:
    "Dodging EVERY single one of the opponents attacks".
    Yeah, Suleiman didn't get a single hit in.That's not struggling especially when her fighting style is based upon an Martial Art which is all about finding the right moment and position to counter.


    And for the billionth time, calling her weak is a freaking insult to everyone who practices Aikido, it's all defense with 0 offense but pure counter with the purpose to not hurt anyone.

    But yeah, I suppose for most people only busting things equates to strong.That's purely simple minded.
    Last edited by Beatrice; January 28, 2014 at 06:23 AM.
    "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

  12. #25
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member BetaRuler's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    I can't believe this thread is really so necessary! As if the discussion in the prediction thread wasn't enough already.

    Here's a ton of lucky things happening.

    Rebecca and Cavendish getting thrown in D block instead of any of the other blocks.
    Cavendish having such a condition in the first place.
    Cavendish falling asleep in the middle of a fight
    Hakuba falling asleep in the middle of a fight causing him to loose!
    it's also luck a natural earthquake didn't rip a whole in the ground and just kill everyone. You know natural disasters and all that.
    So I said this with a belief that my opinion actually mattered at least by 1 iota!

  13. #26
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Spenzi's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by BetaRuler View Post
    Here's a ton of lucky things happening.

    Rebecca and Cavendish getting thrown in D block instead of any of the other blocks.
    Cavendish having such a condition in the first place.
    Cavendish falling asleep in the middle of a fight
    Hakuba falling asleep in the middle of a fight causing him to loose!
    it's also luck a natural earthquake didn't rip a whole in the ground and just kill everyone. You know natural disasters and all that.
    Yeah, Rebecca won cause Cavedish fell asleep and everything was pure luck. (Y) It was also pure luck that Luffy won his Block because I mean like an earthquake could've happen and everybody getting smashed. Really? lol
    22.01.2014: Vivi is going to participate the Reverie this year with King Cobra. And she'll finally join Luffy's crew.

    Possible new nakama IMO:
    Kin'emon / Momonosuke / Rebecca / Bellamy / Ceaser Clown / Mancherie / Leo / Wicca / Kanjuro / Bartolomeo


  14. #27
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member BetaRuler's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    You can see I'm being sarcastic can't you? Really, lol, I feel there is very little to discuss here, only opinions to express about a moot point.

    Going by the logic people are trying to pursue that Rebecca is lucky, Cavendish can also be considered lucky he has such a condition and that he could change to Hakuba so fast, you'd think half the fighters nearby could leave a fatal wound before he even touched the ground when falling asleep. Luck that no one like Luffy, Jesus or Bartolomeo got into D block or any other certain fighters we saw in the previous rounds or Sabo, who might have possessed a skill to take Hakuba down.
    Or who is a better judge between Doffy and Sabo? Doflamingo who is biased against members of the previous royal family anyway vs Sabo who was watching what happened with a neutral and objective pov?
    So I said this with a belief that my opinion actually mattered at least by 1 iota!

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    MangaHelper 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Syphin's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    I do find it amusing how [some] people make the arguments so personal and resort to insulting jabs when countering =/.

    We are not enemies here, lets keeps the discussion within friendly levels please.

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  17. #29
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    Doesn't matter what Sabo says, what we see is that Rebecca had the skill to see the attack AND move in time. That's manga fact, she saw the attack and was quick enough to move. I forgot and cannot be assed to check if she used haki, but it doesn't change the fact that she still reacted. Had she not moved, she would have likely been hit right in the head and been out, when instead her helmet took the brunt of the damage and kept her conscious.


    Luck played a part too, when Cavendish went back to sleep.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Rebecca won her block with skill or luck or both?

    It's a bit of both. She was lucky that the most dangerous opponent decided to take a nap immediately after wiping everyone else out, but it took some level of skill for her to be the only one to survive his attack.

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