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There's absolutely nothing wrong with being of the opinion of either or both but its kinda insulting to a person's intelligence when someone says their opinion is backed by manga as fact while another's isn't simply by saying the testimony of Character X is canon and the testimony of Character Y doesn't count. This is just bias based on subjective reasoning.
IF: there's no way to say that she could have lost if Cavendish didn't stay asleep,
THEN (by the same logic): there's no way to say that she could have won if Cavendish woke up.
so what you said here:
My issue is that people are talking as if they know things that they can't possibly know because they didn't happen.
The whole rest of the argument comes in when people say that it was lucky that Hakuba showed up in the first place because otherwise Rebecca didn't stand a chance. That's what I've been arguing against.
Saying that she survived because of skill and won because of luck (I think) is fairly accurate and consistent with both what "Sabo" said and Doflamingo said.
But surviving in the Block battles = winning. Rebecca's skill allowed her to survive which in turn caused her to win as she survived. Trying to separate skill and luck doesn't really make sense in this situation because it was her skill along with some luck that helped her to win. Rebecca's Block battle works like the other battles in One Piece where skill and luck are intricately linked together.
Rebecca was fortunate the circumstances turned out the way they did, but she didn't merely win just because of luck, it is equally connected to her skill as well.
Rebecca is "lucky" that Cavendish/Hakuba is so "unlucky" and Cavendish/Hakuba is "unlucky" that Rebecca is so "lucky".
Yeah sorry about that, should have spent some more time checking for inconsistencies. I am not arguing that Rebecca won in the way she did solely through skill because that clearly is against what Oda has conveyed. 'Luck'/fortunate circumstances played a part in her victory, especially in the way it was achieved, along with her skill and speed.
Adjusted the statement I made to reflect my view point more accurately:
Last edited by Syphin; January 28, 2014 at 11:27 PM.
No need to apologize I probably have the most trouble articulating my thoughts around these forums. Though I have to say not many people have the maturity to accept faults so I have to commend you on that! Wish more people participated in civil discussions around here like you do.
My issue is that the question was asked at all. As an analogy, imagine you use amazing parkour skills to escape a collapsing building onto an adjacent building. Are you lucky that the adjacent building does not also collapse? Yes. But is it actually relevant to what happened? No. Does it detract from the feat you performed in the first place? No.
See, my problem is that most of the luck crowd aren't just arguing that Rebecca was lucky, they're using that fact as some kind of proof that the skill element of her win wasn't worth anything because of it. This is why I've been reluctant to admit what is obvious in that Rebecca was lucky Cavendish fell back to sleep, in the same way that Luffy was lucky Don Chinjao wasn't stronger, in the same way that Bartolomeo was lucky the King Punch wasn't enough to break his barrier, in the same way Burgess was lucky one of the contestants in his block didn't turn out to be Kaido in a leopard hat, in the same way that we're all lucky every day that something bad fails to happen.
Definitely, Rebecca was likely the 2nd most skilled character in that block (besides Cavendish) which is why she was still able to get back on her feet after he attacked everybody in sight. Anyone who says that it was purely luck that got her the win isn't giving her enough credit. Like Syphin said, luck still plays a large part in almost every battle and situation in One Piece.
Regarding your parkour analogy, even if you get out of a collapsing building alive, if the place you escape to gets you killed, then your luck has just run out. This doesn't mean you're not skilled; just that you got unlucky despite your skill.