Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (10/13/14 - 10/19/14).
Forum News: The nomination phase of the Community Awards 2014 is live! Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 601 by BadKarma , Gintama 515 (2)
New Reply
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 109

Thread: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

  1. #16
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner hawk eye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Country
    Ireland
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Chinjao View Post
    i agree with you on that you are total right if someone beats someone else with only his own power and without help from outside then he deserves the victory or at least thats my opinion
    thank you, it should be pretty clear, people overcredit libuko, true he's one smart fellow who comes with awesome plans and all, but its still a fact that his plans alone never managed to stop/defeat any worthy general, i mean if u think of it like this, 2 of the 3 great heavens of zhao were needed to beat the duke, and it was houken that actually beat the duke, so between the 3 generals, libuko should get the less credit out of them, since he was bested 1v1 against the duke, until houken interfered and beat the duke.

  2. #17
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Country
    Australia
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    165
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk eye View Post
    its different since they're both are one of the 3 great heavens of zhao, so basically imagine if ouki was fighting a general, which manages to close in on ouki and is about to slay him(ouki can't beat him), then all of a sudden, another member of the 6 great generals of xin interferes and defeats this said general, now would u give ouki credit for this 'win'? i wouldn't for pretty obvious reasons.
    wait! actually there was a similar situation that happened in the manga, houken v kyou = houken wins, then comes ouki and beats houken, should kyou receive any credit for defeating houken, NO! and before u say this is not the same thing, just imagine if ouki came in a bit earlier, before kyou died, and it would become the same situation.
    You're missing one point, Riboku did not have Houken interfere with his fight, he brought him into his fight as part of his contingency plan. I have no doubt Riboku martial skill definitely lacking compare to Ouki and Duke thats for sure. His strategy definitely lost to Duke natural instinct. But that does not means he lost the battle. He lost the duel but not battle.

  3. #18
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner hawk eye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Country
    Ireland
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zutto06 View Post
    You're missing one point, Riboku did not have Houken interfere with his fight, he brought him into his fight as part of his contingency plan. I have no doubt Riboku martial skill definitely lacking compare to Ouki and Duke thats for sure. His strategy definitely lost to Duke natural instinct. But that does not means he lost the battle. He lost the duel but not battle.
    i think ur missing my point, what u said doesn't change the fact that libuko using his own skill lost to the duke, houken being there from the start doesn't change this(he's basically plot armor, so no one kills libuko), anyway houken defeated the duke by using his own martial skills, u should only get credit for what u did with ur own skills, houken gets credit for defeating the duke in a dual, the duke gets credit for outplaying libuko, now what did libuko do with his own skills that deserve to be credited? the only thing i can think off, is that his plan to waste time by talking random shit to the duke worked(although its probably plot armor aswell lol).
    now i'm actually curious to how u guys rank libuko compared to the other generals?
    Last edited by hawk eye; February 11, 2014 at 01:27 PM.

  4. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  5. #19
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Morocco
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,841
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    When you lack knowledge about military culture, and chinese history during this period, of course you're gonna say Riboku is crap, but only those who are well versed in these can tell you that he's absolutely fantastic as a general or even prime minister, go read about Zhao's history, and go read what happened when the King decided to push away Riboku from military matters and state matters, do you know what happened ? Well you can guess by yourself

    A general isn't about martial skills, if he can slay a beast without even fighting and with minimal casulaties, that makes him a better than any other general who's skilled in martial skills, but not in the thinking departement

    Lemme say this, a general doesn't fight himself, he moves soldiers in a way to achieve success and with the least casualties, and anything is good to achieve that, be it assassination, tricking enemies etc

    If I go by your logic, might as well call Ousen a failure since he doesn't seem to fond of directly fighting strong opponents ? Or even Ouki when he sent Shin to kill Fuki instead of going himself ?

    Him using Houken in a way that ensure his victory is skill, deal with it

  6. #20
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner hawk eye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Country
    Ireland
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    i read the manga, not the chinese history.
    and yet what libuko is good at(strategys)never seemed to be enough to defeat any worthy opponent, and was always seen through. next
    no just no. shin was a 100-man commander under ouki, not one of xin's six great generals, so that shouldn't even be compared, the fact that you compared them makes me wonder if u actually understood what i meant, ousen even though he doesn't use directly beat strong opponents, his plans actually work, unlike libuko, so if you want to call anyone a failure its libuko lol.
    nah, houken is the real threat, libuko is just stealing houken's credit.

  7. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  8. #21
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Morocco
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,841
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Houken is just a tool used by Riboku, another piece between the many pieces he have, understood ? In the same way Ouki used Shin to slay Fuki, understood ?

    What Riboku was good at was enough to utterly defeat Ouki, ass rape that Yan general, and basically make anyone acknowledge him in China

    And this manga is based on chinese history, and Riboku really existed, so perhaps you should research before you spout things like that as Riboku was considered to be one of the Four Greatest Generals of the Warring states era, so really, your opinion on him doesn't even matter as he was acknowledged to be competent by people who know what they're talking about

  9. #22
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner hawk eye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Country
    Ireland
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    just put this into your head, i don't care about what happened in chinese history, because its definitely not the same as what happened in the manga, so u just drop that shit, if in the chinese history he's seen as that, then because of something he did, not because of some monster who yields a god within him or whatever is houken supposed to be, get it? but unfortunatley for you, that is exactly the case in the manga, so whether u like it or not, in the manga, he's not as strong as he was in real history(if what u said is the truth), also in case u can't understand that, i'll put it bluntly for u, the libuko i'm talking about, is a character in a manga, not someone in RL, so stop talking about what he was in the chinese history, because i couldn't care less about that.

    no but what u need to understand, is that houken is a general of his own, he'S a member of the 3 great heavens of zhao for god sake, he should get credits for his own efforts, not libuko, anyway, just answer me this, would u say that mougo is a better general than renpa? if yes, then your hopeless, if no, then mougo is just libuko in this situation, since its due to a combined effort from kanki/ousen, that actually won them their battle, while mougo was bested both paln-wise, and fighting-wise,

    correction: he's in a better situation, since both kanki/ousen are his actual vice-generals, not fellow great generals.
    Last edited by hawk eye; February 11, 2014 at 06:27 PM.

  10. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  11. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Country
    Brazil
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    320
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Houken is just a tool used by Riboku, another piece between the many pieces he have, understood ? In the same way Ouki used Shin to slay Fuki, understood ?

    What Riboku was good at was enough to utterly defeat Ouki, ass rape that Yan general, and basically make anyone acknowledge him in China

    And this manga is based on chinese history, and Riboku really existed, so perhaps you should research before you spout things like that as Riboku was considered to be one of the Four Greatest Generals of the Warring states era, so really, your opinion on him doesn't even matter as he was acknowledged to be competent by people who know what they're talking about
    Dont think your getting what hawk eye means. For starts bringing chinese real history is pointless at best, the author took countless libertys with the story this manga is by no means an accuracy descrition of what happened, so the real history is not to be used to base claims. Bottom line is dosent matter how the historical figures were in real life, what matters is how the author choose to make them to be. The point hawk eye is making is on the manga libuko is given alot of credit by everybody but all the worthy generals he "defeated" were not because of his own abilitys.

    The Yan general (cant remember his name) and the Duke both saw throught Libukos tatics and schemes, which are his strong point, had it not being for housen it could have easily lead to his defeat.
    I know your arguing about a general using his troops to win and whatnot and that aint wrong. What is wrong is Libuko rellying on a general of equal rank to win all his decisive battles and still get all the credit.

    This is entirely different than a commanding general sending lower ranking officials to do his bidding (and even on those cases people got their recognition for their deeds like Kanki and Shin on the last war), Liboku and Housen are both of equal ranks, if Housen came and "saved" Libukos ass of the Yan general and the Duke he should get most of the credit.

    It is the same as if Kanki saved Moubus ass for example, Kanki would get all the credit for whatever deeds he did.

  12. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  13. #24
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    Greece
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Well there are 3 types of generals The one who as strong in fights and have that instict like Duke Hyou for example but basic they arent very smart 2nd type the ones like Ribokun who are more tacticians and are weaks in fights so they use their tactics in the battle to crush the enemy and there are very few like ouki and renpa who could have both those gifts and thats why there were Respect.

  14. #25
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Morocco
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,841
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Houken isn't a general, he doesn't consider himself a general at all, if anything, he seems to follow Riboku's orders as long as it benefits him (aka meeting strong people)

    Bringing chinese history isn't pointless here because the manga is based on that, and the fact is that both in the manga and real history, Riboku has been known as an outstanding general, so of course it's Riboku who sets the stage for Houken

    Also even the author, through Shin, has made it clear that Riboku isn't just some random tactician, and that he knows how to fight too

    So as I said, your opinion doesn't matter, because both the author and the historians acknowledge the guy being a beast, period
    Last edited by Zehahaha; February 12, 2014 at 07:14 AM.

  15. #26
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    Greece
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Houken isn't a general, he doesn't consider himself a general at all, if anything, he seems to follow Riboku's orders as long as it benefits him (aka meeting strong people)

    Bringing chinese history isn't pointless here because the manga is based on that, and the fact is that both in the manga and real history, Riboku has been known as a, outstanding general, so of course it's Riboku who sets the stage for Houken

    Also even the author, through Shin, has made it clear that Riboku isn't just some random tactician, and that he knows how to fight too

    So as I said, your opinion doesn't matter, because both the author and the historians acknowledge the guy being a beast, period
    Well for me ribokun is surely a beast in his own right i mean i dont think someone as damn clever as ribokun would consider a weakling and i think in the manga Shin tried to fight him before the colide army arc and not only shin got knocked back but ten saw some fighting marks in ribokun arms and got quite surprized because she didnt thought that he would be able to put some fight i mean ribokun is definitly not like gempo the Rip heavenly king i would say he is more of that Gokei the tactician general who Duke Hyou fought in the 1rst war shin participate and i think he did quite well in his duel with Duke but ofc he died. So i think anyone who thinks ribokun is a weakling he isnt 100% right id say each of these guys they have a talent shin talent is to win every fight he is on ribokun talent is that he is damn clever.
    Last edited by Don Chinjao; February 12, 2014 at 05:34 AM.

  16. #27
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner hawk eye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Country
    Ireland
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Houken isn't a general, he doesn't consider himself a general at all, if anything, he seems to follow Riboku's orders as long as it benefits him (aka meeting strong people)

    Bringing chinese history isn't pointless here because the manga is based on that, and the fact is that both in the manga and real history, Riboku has been known as an outstanding general, so of course it's Riboku who sets the stage for Houken

    Also even the author, through Shin, has made it clear that Riboku isn't just some random tactician, and that he knows how to fight too

    So as I said, your opinion doesn't matter, because both the author and the historians acknowledge the guy being a beast, period
    dude ur in denial. houken is a general, one of the 3 greats of zhao at that too. and this is a fact coming straight from the manga. not debating this.
    ur chinese shit don't serve a point here. End Of Story.
    yeah so, never did i say anything about it, just saying the fact that he's plans alone never actually defeated someone worthy. its about time u actually understand what i'm saying.
    not in the manga i read, no! he's definitely not shown to be as awesome as what u think of him.
    also, i wonder if you will keep going with the notion, the winner is the best, period. after this 'certain' battle.

  17. #28
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Morocco
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,841
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk eye View Post
    dude ur in denial. houken is a general, one of the 3 greats of zhao at that too. and this is a fact coming straight from the manga. not debating this.
    ur chinese shit don't serve a point here. End Of Story.
    yeah so, never did i say anything about it, just saying the fact that he's plans alone never actually defeated someone worthy. its about time u actually understand what i'm saying.
    not in the manga i read, no! he's definitely not shown to be as awesome as what u think of him.
    also, i wonder if you will keep going with the notion, the winner is the best, period. after this 'certain' battle.
    Chinese shit lol

    Showing how nice your debating skills are, keep going

    Also, learn to read, I said Houken doesn't consider himself a general, doesn't give a flying fuck about Zhao, he only cares about being the strongest, deal with it

    It's about time you understand that just because you don't like a character, doesn't make him shit in the story, got it ?

  18. #29
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner hawk eye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Country
    Ireland
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Chinese shit lol

    Showing how nice your debating skills are, keep going

    Also, learn to read, I said Houken doesn't consider himself a general, doesn't give a flying fuck about Zhao, he only cares about being the strongest, deal with it

    It's about time you understand that just because you don't like a character, doesn't make him shit in the story, got it ?
    that's what u get for continuously repeating unrelated stuff to the debate all the time.

    that's not what ur first 4 words say. anyways houken also doesn't consider himself a 'tool' for libuko either. u need to deal with the fact that houken is a general that should be taking the credit for his own doings.

    just because i don't judge him based on the chinese history like u, doesn't mean i hate him lol, i don't dislike him, infact i like the zhao's more than any other state(apart from xin obviously) but nonetheless i give the credit to the one who made the effort, in other words, i'm being fair, unlike you who's all over him right now.

  19. #30
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    Greece
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Kingdom General Chapter Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk eye View Post
    that's what u get for continuously repeating unrelated stuff to the debate all the time.

    that's not what ur first 4 words say. anyways houken also doesn't consider himself a 'tool' for libuko either. u need to deal with the fact that houken is a general that should be taking the credit for his own doings.

    just because i don't judge him based on the chinese history like u, doesn't mean i hate him lol, i don't dislike him, infact i like the zhao's more than any other state(apart from xin obviously) but nonetheless i give the credit to the one who made the effort, in other words, i'm being fair, unlike you who's all over him right now.
    I think his name is Ribokun and not libokun unless you know something i dont :P

New Reply
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts