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Thread: The Uchiha curse? <3

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member DemonKing888's Avatar
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    The Uchiha curse? <3

    As we all know Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki the Sage of Six paths had two sons, the ancestor of the Uchiha clan "Elder son" and the ancestor of the Senju/Uzumaki clans "younger son."

    We know that Hagoromo choose the younger son to be his successor which angered the Elder son. Elder would then choose to defy his father's wishes and begun to do battle with his younger brothers causing the Senju vs Uchiha conflict.

    Elder son would then one day write his family history on an stone monument in the Uchiha's shine that only his clan are able to read. The stone monument also reads about having to kill a loved one inorder to gain a greater power "MS" and taking one's own brother's eyes "EMS".

    I believe the Elder son wrote these rules for his clan out of hatred for his own brother. We also know that an Uchiha has to take Senju DNA in order to reach the sage of six paths power. This could also be the Elder's way of taking back what he feels should be his.

    Now going even deeper I came up with an Theory, What if the Elder son or his "Ghost" is still around we know this could be possible because of Minato and Kushina's chakra ghost inside of Naruto. His Ghost could of helped Madara who is his successor or pawn. We know that Hashirama tryed to kill Madara at the Valley of the End but Madara survived. Some people believe Madara used Izanagi to survive but he still has both his eyes, it's unknown if Having the EMS allows you to keep your eye slight but I don't believe he used it.

    Look here http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/626/16
    Hashirama notices something as you can see in panel #3. Almost as if someone was watching.

    Sorry for the long text, now getting to my point looking at the page of who ever it is looking at Sasuke on his death bed.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/664/3

    What if Elder's Ghost comes before the Uchiha who've obtain EMS before their death, even if that's not Elder's foot do you believe Elder will have a larger role within the story? Is his Ghost, his Curse of Hatred acting as a guardian angel for Madara and Sasuke?

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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Nice theory , only a couple of problems.
    A. It isn't mentioned before even hinted, and if that was the case Madara should have been expecting him to come after stabbing Sasuke, based on his first hand experience.
    B. If elder son's ghost is out there, then there should be the younger son's as well, to balance the scale. Also if Elder Son's ghost is out there it should be out there for pure evil and Sasuke is no evil at this point of the story.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member DemonKing888's Avatar
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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    I know Sasuke isn't evil at this point, which kinda makes me mad. I don't see how we're going to get that final Naruto vs Sasuke fight, inless a outcome like the two sons repeat it's self.

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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonKing888 View Post
    I know Sasuke isn't evil at this point, which kinda makes me mad. I don't see how we're going to get that final Naruto vs Sasuke fight, inless a outcome like the two sons repeat it's self.
    It Can be a friendly spar for the seat of hokage

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark blood View Post
    It Can be a friendly spar for the seat of hokage
    If they don't fight to kill, it's not worth looking at.

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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    If they don't fight to kill, it's not worth looking at.
    Kinda agree with you, but Kishi is trying to make sasuke good right now.
    Only Couple of instances where Juugo mentioned something and the instance where he showed the intention of burning every thing. If we ignore these instances then every thing is pointing towards a change of heart in Sasuke.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member DemonKing888's Avatar
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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark blood View Post
    Kinda agree with you, but Kishi is trying to make sasuke good right now.
    Only Couple of instances where Juugo mentioned something and the instance where he showed the intention of burning every thing. If we ignore these instances then every thing is pointing towards a change of heart in Sasuke.
    That the thing about Sasuke he is the embodiment of anything the Uchiha's were. It's hard to say if Sasuke is good or evil. If you look at every Uchiha in this story you'll notice they're all trying to do good and want peace but time and time again they go to the extremes to do so. Madara wants to enslave everyone for peace, Obito want's everyone to be trap in an eternal dream to make all there dreams come true, and hell even Itachi the closes thing to a good Uchiha chooses to kill his clan just for peace.

    The same way the Elder son choose to try to kill his brother for whatever reason to justify his idea of peace. Sasuke may want to be Hokage to make peace but how far will he go to get there?

    Does he need to kill Naruto first to become Hokage? Does he need to throw everyone who disagree with him out of their homes or even worst hurt them till they choose to agree with his ideals. Don't forget that Sasuke also wants the Tailed beast dead......

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
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    But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie. Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold

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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonKing888 View Post
    That the thing about Sasuke he is the embodiment of anything the Uchiha's were. It's hard to say if Sasuke is good or evil. If you look at every Uchiha in this story you'll notice they're all trying to do good and want peace but time and time again they go to the extremes to do so. Madara wants to enslave everyone for peace, Obito want's everyone to be trap in an eternal dream to make all there dreams come true, and hell even Itachi the closes thing to a good Uchiha chooses to kill his clan just for peace.

    The same way the Elder son choose to try to kill his brother for whatever reason to justify his idea of peace. Sasuke may want to be Hokage to make peace but how far will he go to get there?

    Does he need to kill Naruto first to become Hokage? Does he need to throw everyone who disagree with him out of their homes or even worst hurt them till they choose to agree with his ideals. Don't forget that Sasuke also wants the Tailed beast dead......
    I don't think the root cause of conflict between elder and younger son was establishing the peace.
    Elder son had a grudge because he was not chosen as successor, that what led him to fight with his younger brother

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark blood View Post
    I don't think the root cause of conflict between elder and younger son was establishing the peace.
    Elder son had a grudge because he was not chosen as successor, that what led him to fight with his younger brother
    Precisely.

    Elder son was angry because he wasn't chosen to become a successor. So he wants to kill his younger brother.
    Madara was angry because he wasn't chosen to become a hokage. So he interpret the info/message in the tablet into another interpretation,
    Obito was angry because rin died.
    Sasuke was angry because he's an emotional child.

    Overall, it seems to me the uchiha curse is nothing more than like a pity sentiment.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jalix's Avatar
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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonKing888 View Post
    That the thing about Sasuke he is the embodiment of anything the Uchiha's were. It's hard to say if Sasuke is good or evil. If you look at every Uchiha in this story you'll notice they're all trying to do good and want peace but time and time again they go to the extremes to do so. Madara wants to enslave everyone for peace, Obito want's everyone to be trap in an eternal dream to make all there dreams come true, and hell even Itachi the closes thing to a good Uchiha chooses to kill his clan just for peace.

    The same way the Elder son choose to try to kill his brother for whatever reason to justify his idea of peace. Sasuke may want to be Hokage to make peace but how far will he go to get there?

    Does he need to kill Naruto first to become Hokage? Does he need to throw everyone who disagree with him out of their homes or even worst hurt them till they choose to agree with his ideals. Don't forget that Sasuke also wants the Tailed beast dead......
    The biggest problem I have, is that the whole story about the sage and his sons could be woefully out of context. I say this because of the following reasons:

    1: When Itachi told Sasuke about the Mangekyo, he was lieing (sp?)
    2: When Obito told Sasuke about the Uchiha and history, he was stretching the truth and trying to manipulate to his advantage.

    But the main issue I have with the story of the sage and his sons, is that from a Naruto perspective, one detail doesn't make sense. And that is, why is it that one son has one ability, and the other doesn't. ONe son had the ocular jutsu, the other had the body. Uchiha, and Senju. But if they were from the same father, and of the same mother, then it stands to reason that BOTH could have awakeend the ocular jutsu, and could be of the same body. I get it, it's Naruto and fiction and the sage, so maybe he was able to actually 'don out benefits' like this. But logically to me, for now, it creates doubt.

    And that doubt also has me wondering if one of Madara's biggest un-doings will be a mis-understanding of what really happened. Most agree at that TNJ will play a role in his demise. But I think that it's absolutely possible that there is something that he is missing. I have no idea what it is or could be. I just know that his explanation of what happened is too simplistic... kind of like Itachi saying in one panel "Madara attacked the village with the 9 tails"... that is assuming people agree with Itachi not knowing Obito was Madara (I have some reservations about that... especially in Itachi's initial chat regarding reality and what people believe because both things he said was true - believing him being a kind brother, and believing Madara being dead, etc.... I kind of think he knew, but that's another story).

    I really like the idea of a kind of 'spirit' of the elder influencing Madara though. Because it kind of blurs the line of Senju/Uchiha, which it should since technically the elder brother was both. Also, it speaks to the story being a little bigger IMO. What I mean is Naruto isn't the only one to 'benefit' from such influence.

    Finally... one other thing. The way the elder son was portrayed is that he's something of a power-hungry, bitter jerk. But Kishimoto's characters tend to have layers. Madara was more than a power-hungry lunatic, he was shown as sa kid with dreams at one point that cared about his family. In the anime, even Orochimaru had been shown as an individual with some sympathy (Nawaki's death). So there's probably far more to the story as to why he would attack his own brother. Let alone the mystery of the outcome.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    well...i've come to believe that the elder uchiha had somewhat of an influence on the uzumaki clan...
    if you look at his eye pattern and the uzumaki clan symbol...they are basically identical....
    i posted in the uzumaki thread...that kushina and mikoto's relationship could be a hint there is no drawing hate for all senju/uzumaki by the uchiha.
    otherwise,i feel that mikoto would be naturely cold and unresponsive towards kushina,even if she didn't know she was an uzumaki...if there truly was a curse
    But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie. Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Cure? CURSE? What CURSE? Sasuke could have had any babe in Konoha he wanted... If only I would be cursed like that... Oh curse me, cursing gods...

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    Re: The Uchiha curse?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Cure? CURSE? What CURSE? Sasuke could have had any babe in Konoha he wanted... If only I would be cursed like that... Oh curse me, cursing gods...
    Well the CURSE is, he didn't want any
    and was hell bent on revenge.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member DemonKing888's Avatar
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    Re: The Uchiha curse? <3

    Maybe there is a Curse, not the way I seen it happening. I didn't expect the Elder son to be Sasuke himself.

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