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Thread: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

  1. #1
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member RomeCity's Avatar
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    Exclamation Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    The whole story of Bleach should have ended after the Aizen fight saga. That fullbring and this quincy stuff is a pile of mess. Just sayin...

    Over 9000!!

  2. #2
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: After Aizen

    NOT EVEN!! the fullbring arc wuldve been the shit if done properly and it was very useful to the manga. it showed that humans can fight on par with shinigami and hollows, not only that it further explained human abilities and if people hadnt of been whiny little bitches about there being no shinigami we probably wouldve seen chad and orihime get power ups BUT NOOOO!! people gotta complain and bitch cause there was no byakuya and hitsugaya. that arc had a lot of hidden potential but now kubo has to incorporate the fullbring arc in the quincy one which is probably why ginjo and them are back. kubo shoudlve started the arc a with ichigo already having his powers and then showed how he got them through flash backs instead of his usual slow pace, and a time gap bigger than a year, probably 3 or 4 wouldve been a lot better since time in SS flows faster and most of them wouldve aged a lot more and allowed more potential for growth. i wont lie the intro to the arc was boring as hell but if we waited long enough it couldve been great to see how ichigo would get his powers back instead of the recycled version we got, not to mention all the favorite captains coming back to save him im pretty sure ichigo getting his shinigami powers back and the reintroduction had the highest ratings during that time period. go figure LOL

    a lot of these die hard fans make it hard to enjoy mangas and stories cause the artists always conform to their wants. byakuya should be dead yo but death threats to kubo and the mass amounts of people who threatened to stop reading saved his life. its disgusting that we cant even enjoy a manga without people imposing their wants and views on it. constructive criticism is one thing but straight up bitching is another. no writer should get death threats over a character, thats ludicrous and just makes you wonder the sanity and maturity of these so called readers. its a manga. yes it is normal to love it and become attached to characters but people need to grasp that character deaths and plots stemming from imagination have no influence of your actual reality.

    also the quincy arc was the first one planned LOL kubo is just knocking out all the old bankais/captains that we've already seen or dont care about anymore, thats why we seeing hitsugaya, renji and them first. we already know what they can do, kubo ust wanted visual upgrades to portray growth and keep people interested. give it some time.

    i aint gonna lie though, the thing killing the manga is the pacing. the typical naruto chapter has atleast 1.5X the content of bleach. kubo has mastered the art of bleach, it is sublime. the character designs and bankais are unique and inventive but FFS, this guy and ending chapters with god dam cliff hangars. its always gotta be a foot or a random shadow at the end, and dont forget his favorite lets end on a bankai!!!

    the manga is great, there are 5 things killing it though

    1. the pacing
    2. the cliffhangers
    3. no good guys die
    4. pokemon style turned based fighting
    5. die hard fans who wont let the writer write his own story

    other than that i really got no complaints. look to the good and not focus on the bad. it could be worse. we could have a masked man with one eye hole LMFAO ohh tobito.....

  3. #3
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    I don't take issue with much of what you say, but you and those like you who dream that fan rage affects story need to think again. Speaking as someone who works in the production of this kind of media, you need to know, story is presented and approved well before the panels are drawn so that management and marketing can make the most of what happens. Stories don't change because of fan rage. Yes, some people were steamed when they thought Byakuya was going to die, but the indications in the manga, itself (if you read between the lines) is that Byakuya was never intended to die. How do I know?

    1. There was no flashback.

    2. Byakuya's relationship issues with Rukia had not been resolved (as they have been now. Byakuya is in more danger of being killed off now that things with Rukia have been resolved).

    3. If Kubo was going to kill Byakuya, Rukia and Renji would have been conscious and a part of his death scene.

    Manga is not fanfiction that can be influenced so very easily. And actually, manga producers and authors don't shy away from all controversy. They have to manage it carefully, but character deaths can actually come off successfully if handled well. A number of mangas have done so and although there was controversy, it didn't hurt SALES, which is what matters. Now, if Kubo had intended for Byakuya to die, he would have been carefully set into a position that resolved his issues with Rukia, given a nice flashback with Hisana and allowed him to exit in an act of sacrifice. The humiliation he suffered at As Nodt's hands was to show how his fears about Rukia being hurt could be used against him, and also to show, as Kenpachi's defeat showed, that Soul Society was pretty much screwed. There was no way in hell that Byakuya was going to die until he and Rukia had resolved their issues. That's just the dictates set up by what we saw between the two all through the manga. It had to come full circle, first, and at that point, it hadn't.

    Please stop spreading the nonsense that fans decide the storyline. It is simply a myth created by people who are a little too self important.
    Last edited by Firebird0ne; February 26, 2014 at 09:07 AM.

  4. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Had the manga ended after Aizen's capture, that would've left so many unanswered questions that I am 1,000% sure people would have been pissed at not having answered.

    Here's what you can do as a consumer:

    1. Stop reading the manga.
    2. Pretend it actually did end at Aizen's capture.
    3. Live life.

    ---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    a lot of these die hard fans make it hard to enjoy mangas and stories cause the artists always conform to their wants. byakuya should be dead yo but death threats to kubo and the mass amounts of people who threatened to stop reading saved his life. its disgusting that we cant even enjoy a manga without people
    There is no way you didn't just make that up.

    Quote Quote:
    i aint gonna lie though, the thing killing the manga is the pacing. the typical naruto chapter has atleast 1.5X the content of bleach. kubo has mastered the art of bleach, it is sublime. the character designs and bankais are unique and inventive but FFS, this guy and ending chapters with god dam cliff hangars. its always gotta be a foot or a random shadow at the end, and dont forget his favorite lets end on a bankai!!!
    Because a Naruto chapter has never ended with just a random foot.

    Wait a second.....
    http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...4-page-15.html

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    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    There is no way you didn't just make that up.
    Not really. Search some forums, there was a major fanrage on Kubo's twitter. Loooots of threats. Those were the most calm reactions to Byakuya's "death".

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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Not really. Search some forums, there was a major fanrage on Kubo's twitter. Loooots of threats. Those were the most calm reactions to Byakuya's "death".
    That's what, tens of people? Hundreds, at best? Out of who knows how many read Bleach? Pfft, like that was going to change anything. Do you think people actually have the guts to act out their threats?

    And it couldn't have changed anything, because every chapter is finished weeks before it comes out.

    ---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RomeCity View Post
    The whole story of Bleach should have ended after the Aizen fight saga. That fullbring and this quincy stuff is a pile of mess. Just sayin...
    Could you try saying why you think so?
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

  8. #7
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Not really. Search some forums, there was a major fanrage on Kubo's twitter. Loooots of threats. Those were the most calm reactions to Byakuya's "death".
    I also saw the threats. I would agree that some fans acted out irresponsibly, but I hold to what I know for a fact. Story is planned waaaaay ahead of time and actually controversy is sometimes an acceptable tool for making a stir. Even some serious fan rage can actually be beneficial in drawing attention of other fans who might have otherwise abandoned the manga. It is a misconception that all controversy is bad.

  9. #8
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Knightmare of heaven 0's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Isayama once got a lot of threats just due to the design of a particualar character.But Isayama or the Magazine didn't just change the character design later on fearing the drop in popularity due to people disliking Pixis who was based on a not-so-good General.Most of them weren't even Japanese apparently,It was only a minority of Fanbase.

    Reference


    It probably is possible that Kubo kept Byakuya alive if he had got more than 70% of the Fan Mails with death threats and about dropping the manga due to Byakuya's death.But I highly doubt there were such high number of morons.That outrage on Twitter would be negligible.How many threatning messages that he could've read on Twitter? 500? A thousand at most? To my knowledge most of the rage that he recieved on Twitter were made by Non Japanese moronic readers who were raging about the chapter before it was even released in Japan.Would Kubo give a crap?

    The people of forums don't amount to much if we look at the total number of readers.They are just a minor part of fanbase.It really is stupid to think that a few Thousand or more threats would have Kubo changing the course of his plot.If Kubo wasn't lying when he said that he builds the plot as he sees fit,Then I guess he didn't just keep Byakuya alive just because of some minor part of fanbase which was upset.There were 4 Character Popularity Polls.

    In the First poll,Byakuya was ranked 19th with 446 Votes,With Ichigo at First with 9742 Votes.
    In the Second Poll,Byakuya was ranked 10th with 1712 votes,With Ichigo at First with 7388 Votes.
    In the Third poll,Byakuya was ranked 6th with 3752 Votes with Ichigo at First with 8370 Votes.
    In the Fourth Poll,Byakuya was ranked 7th with 4010 Votes with Hitsugaya at First with 8278 Votes.
    Source

    Well these Polls were conducted a long while ago but this is all we have and Byakuya doesn't seem to be soo extremely popular among Japanese fans that he'd get Zillions of Fan Mails with threats of killing him and dropping the Manga.His popularity might've even dropped since 2008.

    Iam unconvinced that Kubo altered Byakuya's fate just for a little bunch of morons.But people are free to believe what they want.

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  11. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    I think the point is, that mangakas can easily change their mind and sometimes it can show in their works... Fan rage or not, there are editors and they can nag the mangaka to make these kind of changes

  12. #10
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Notak View Post
    I think the point is, that mangakas can easily change their mind and sometimes it can show in their works... Fan rage or not, there are editors and they can nag the mangaka to make these kind of changes
    But the time when that would happen is BEFORE the publication of the manga. Publishers will do just about anything to avoid changing what has already been shown or altering the flow of the chapters in any great way. The chapters are drawn well ahead of what we see. It was clear after Chapter 503 that Byakuya was not dead because if he was, then there would have been a flashback either at the end of Chapter 502 or in a sort of 'sendoff' chapter in 503. Thus, there was no intention to kill Byakuya. In 512 and 513, Byakuya's request to Ichigo underscored the fact that even the strongest warriors like Byakuya and Kenpachi could not stand up to the SRs. It was meant to show how close he came to actually dying and tease the audience, but not to go through with it. Like I said in a previous post, controversy isn't necessarily a bad thing, and the fact that there were threats generated a sort of defensive push by fans so that it was probably beneficial in grabbing the attention of some fans who had been disenfranchised by the Fullbring arc. They came back, even if it was just to see if the buzz was true. And the weeks where readers were left hanging were a device to ramp up interest. Kubo would not have drawn his death out like that if he was intended to die in the opening of the war. Publishers are crafty and know how these things work and how to manipulate fans to watch/read. That is how they bring in the money. But no, I know for a fact, it is not as simple as a nagging editor saying "Kubo, people are pissed Byakuya died, so change it." They would have made the decision, die or just tease, long before the chapter was released. I see this all of the time in my job. It's just funny to me that fans really have the perception they have so much control. Sad but true, they honestly don't. I'm not trying to be confrontational, just speaking from experience here.

    So, yes, an editor can urge a writer/mangaka to change something but, no, they do not do this 'willy, nilly' after the fact.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member FetherMan's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Well, in my opinion and that's all it is. I believe the real reason the manga didn't end with Aizen because the manga itself was never revolved completely around Aizen or his spiritual experiments. Sure, Ichigo's birth is connected to that and that's fine with me, however, I'll speak on the "Fullbringer Arc" and the current one now.

    The Fullbringer Arc was mainly about Ichigo getting his shinigami powers back and the Fullbringers made that happen. It wasn't that interesting is all and that's my only real issue with this story arc and glad it was short.

    The current 1,000 year blood war arc, I think, started off good and now, it feels like it's being rushed to a degree. Plus, there's not enough story on Yhwach and it's being thrown here and there. And Ichigo having to come to the rescue in time cliche' has been done to death at this point. When he does finally return to the battle (again), I hope, he doesn't just "win" over Yhwach in easily fashion. I actually want the struggle their, since it's worked for Ichigo in the past story arcs.

    And not to lose hope for your forum title, but Kubo isn't finished with Aizen yet, so don't worry. There will be some odd reason for him to come back one way or another. Probably be another year from now, but Aizen will return with more dialogue and bullsh*t and tricks up his sleeves.
    Last edited by FetherMan; February 28, 2014 at 04:59 AM.
    Munga is Mad Phunny.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    I found Byakuya's death-but-not-really as jarring as many people, but as Firebird0ne says, things like this don't just get written, drawn, inked, edited and published a week before release. That's not so much an example of caving to fan rage as poorly done fake tension.

    Anyway, massively disagree with OP. The end of the Aizen arc would have been a shit place for Bleach to end, with heaps of questions unanswered. Ichigo getting a stupid powerup and saving the day would have been a crap ending as well imo, in fact I'm really hoping he's not the one to finish the big bad in this arc all by himself. The Fullbring arc had some interesting bits, I agree some of it dragged on, but I get the feeling that was an example of editor tampering because ratings dropped. This arc however is much better than most of what happened after Ichigo and crew ran off to Hueco Mundo. Not everything's been great, but in general it's been an improvement.

    To each his own I s'pose.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member RomeCity's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    that fullbring arc started off interesting but ended kinda lackluster. dude just stole ichigos powers and such. normally in the manga when sombody gets new powers they keep them. and why does soul society not even recognize fullbringers? idk, also these quincys seem to have a lot of silly powers. just my opinion

    Over 9000!!

  16. #14
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jabman's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Loved fullbring arc and bleach has been at its best for almost 2 years now.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach: Aizen and Afterwards

    Yea I liked the FB arc, provided some much needed focus on plot instead of the usual powercontest :P
    Loved how Tsukishima almost defeated Byakuya, and Ginjo was an interesting twist.

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