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Thread: Allen rejuvenation

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member JDSS's Avatar
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    Allen rejuvenation

    Greetings

    An interesting thing, the change of Past-Allen to Red(Allen). I sepparate this thread in topics:

    1- How get the Innocence? Past-Allen hadn't Innocence, the 14th in chapter 215 when he wakes up and sees the left arm of Allen, and he shocked about he has Innocence

    2- How he change his hair colour? Past-Allen has, blonde or white, in the picture is not painting black, so is one of that colours, likely blonde... but then, when he finish the rejuvenation, he has it red... Maybe because Nea's memories, because Nea has red hair...

    3- Why Allen doesn't remember anything? A theory is that Apo in the last part of the rejuvenation, he delete Allen's memories, Allen, as Red already because of lose his memories, thinks that has been abandoned for his arm and get to the circus, just that




    There is a theory that Past-Allen is not Red-Allen Walker, because the hair, one isn't an exorcist and the other is and because Allen doesn't remember anything, the 3 points I put.




    What about this misteriously change?

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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    at the time 14th was checking Allen's body and hair there is no way that he hadn't noticed Allen's arm and he didn't show any reaction to it so i think maybe past-Allen had innocence.14th was angry since he thought that Allen doesn't remember anything because of innocence not because of Allen having innocence.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    I find it odd how Allen of the past was so sure about being able to protect the memories no matter how much time would pass. Nea stated it would take a long process, and Cross even thought that Allen might already be an old man. Life expectancy during 19th century is not very high, with only exceptions in DGMverse for whom with magic ability and Nea didn't think Allen had ability maintaining youth.
    Quote Quote:
    How he change his hair colour? Past-Allen has, blonde or white, in the picture is not painting black, so is one of that colours, likely blonde... but then, when he finish the rejuvenation, he has it red... Maybe because Nea's memories, because Nea has red hair...
    I don't really trust Hoshino's view of colors, but she had Nea's hair dark bluish purple. About Mana said Cross may be his brother because of the red hair, I think it just because Cross is deeply connected with Nea. Mana was not in right sense and his memory was a mess.
    Last edited by non-chan; March 09, 2014 at 10:16 AM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member JDSS's Avatar
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    Quote Originally Posted by mahsanaru View Post
    at the time 14th was checking Allen's body and hair there is no way that he hadn't noticed Allen's arm and he didn't show any reaction to it so i think maybe past-Allen had innocence.14th was angry since he thought that Allen doesn't remember anything because of innocence not because of Allen having innocence.
    likely not:

    1- why the 14th would choose someone with Innocence?
    2- Finally the 14th in ch.215 says that they are natural enemies

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by non-chan View Post
    I find it odd how Allen of the past was so sure about being able to protect the memories no matter how much time would pass. Nea stated it would take a long process, and Cross even thought that Allen might already be an old man. Life expectancy during 19th century is not very high, with only exceptions in DGMverse for whom with magic ability and Nea didn't think Allen had ability maintaining youth.
    Good one about past-Allen being sure about protect his memories... But then is what you say too, the 14th when wakes up in 215 is confuse about that power of rejuvenation...



    Quote Quote:
    I don't really trust Hoshino's view of colors, but she had Nea's hair dark bluish purple. About Mana said Cross may be his brother because of the red hair, I think it just because Cross is deeply connected with Nea. Mana was not in right sense and his memory was a mess.
    Nea really have it almost purple? Haha, that is important because when Mana reacted about Cross, and then likely is what you say... But then Mana knew about Cross and that his brother was death... Well this is other thread, I will start it soon, but of course, thanks!
    Last edited by JDSS; March 09, 2014 at 02:34 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    It is unlikely that Allen of the past had Innocence, Cross is an Exorcist, even a General, yet Nea still considered him to be in the same side. Nea only said Allen and him had become enemy only because Allen of the presence was resisting him with all his life and Nea wouldn't show any hesitation or doubt or feelings or even his own heart anymore, as that highly is why he loses 35 years ago.
    Oh and pastAllen's hair clearly not white, since Nea was surprised how white Allen looked. And I doubt Nea will choose a 'normal' person to be his companion.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    Well, to be fair, although I don't think the past Allen likely had Innocence, it is *possible.* What Nea would have meant in that case is that he and Allen are enemies now because Allen is on the Order's side in the "war." Remember, Timcanpy also showed Nea the part of 205 where Tyki suggested Allen cut off his Innocence arm and run away together with the Noahs (who just rescued him from Apocryphos) and Allen refused. Then there's also the part after that with Allen shourting "I'm an Exorcist!" and reassuring Lenalee. It makes it look like Allen, despite being imprisoned for Kanda and Alma's sake, is squarely on the side of the Order. That would be unacceptable to Nea. Cross was obviously *not* loyal to the Order even if he pretended to work for them.

    But again, for the time being, I think it's more likely he got the Innocence arm later on.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member JDSS's Avatar
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    I thought that the 14th said they are natural enemies because Allen's Innocence, not becuase he is in the Order side and he is resisting him, what is fully different from what Allen said 35 years ago... I didn't think about Cross has Innocence too and the 14th and him were partners, of course Cross was not loyal and the 14th chose him
    Well, then the 14th didn't say that because the Innocence, so there is no surprise, so... One point more about past-Allen had Innocence... But the 14th wouldn't chose an exorcist... Or yes? Someone who is no loyal again? And because past-Allen was decided and wanted to protect Nea's and 14th's memories? Well, this can be with past-Allen having Innocence or not... What is clair is that Nea and the 14th knew that he has "something", surely the power of rejuvenation, that is why is called "The destroyer of time"... Nea and the 14th chose someone special like non-chan said, because if not, why then Allen?

    And this could be past-Allen having Innocence or not, Crown Clown has not that power... So, regarding the Innocence, nothing yet. I think likely he got it later, because Nea and the 14th wouldn't choose an exorcist... But "something" special, yes he had, the rejuvenation



    About the hair, yes it's not white, is blonde because the 14th's surprise when he looks the body, but still how he change it to Red
    Last edited by JDSS; March 10, 2014 at 02:29 PM.

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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    What if the Innocence in Allen's arm is merely a distraction; an all too obvious source of Innocence meant to conceal something of far greater importance: The Heart? If that's so, that could explain how he hasn't aged after all this time. Everyone seems to dismiss his eye as being cursed; how ironic it would be if it turned out being the as-yet-unseen Heart.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    But his eye was already confirmed to be caused by Dark Matter with various of times. Hoshino even used the Satan symbol to emphasize the curse.
    Last edited by non-chan; March 11, 2014 at 12:27 PM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member JDSS's Avatar
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcor View Post
    What if the Innocence in Allen's arm is merely a distraction; an all too obvious source of Innocence meant to conceal something of far greater importance: The Heart? If that's so, that could explain how he hasn't aged after all this time. Everyone seems to dismiss his eye as being cursed; how ironic it would be if it turned out being the as-yet-unseen Heart.
    Good one... the person who has got the Heart, couldn't die... I mean, all exorcist die, but the Heart is the special one, so the carrier of him, has special power too... So, if Allen's Innocence is the Heart (apart of Clown Crown)... that could have importance about the rejuvenation... so... Past-Allen has Innocence, not the arm-Clown Crown, but the Heart, Nea knew, but only Nea, because the 14th in 215 is surprised

    Summarizing, past-Allen could yes had Innocence, the Heart, so he could do the rejuvenation and also, that's why he was decided about he could protect the memories of Nea, no matter how long!
    But this is not sure... but likely it can be that way... but why the 14th doesn't know it? that means that Nea could resist the 14th... but this is other thread too

    very good one


    and about the eye, is not like you say, non-chan said already:
    Quote Quote:
    But his eye was already confirmed to be caused by Dark Matter with various of times. Hoshino even used the Satan symbol to emphasize the curse.
    Apart of this that non-chan said, the eye has more power, somehow it has a bit of Mana... it has stopped the waking up of the 14th (198)
    Last edited by JDSS; March 11, 2014 at 04:06 PM.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Mango-chan's Avatar
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    Allen probably got his age rewound by his innocence, since it's got an ongoing rep of pulling Allen out of death's grip like a true bro. Like, it would probably do some weird phoenix level wizardry if it got desperate enough and bake Allen's ashy corpse into another Allen! Creates a totally new meaning to that weird lullaby verse about rising out of ashes, hahaha. /cracklogic
    I'm pretty sure it's implied somewhere that the curse can keep getting worse as long as Allen keeps getting blasted by dark matter and akumas. Also, why is it so weird that a part of Mana was left behind with the curse? He wasn't totally lost as a spooky akuma skeleton, so maybe part of him being present in the curse was an intentional thing to make Allen feel like he's still around.

    Auto-correct is a double edged sword.

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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    @JDSS: This is off topic but I don't understand why did you keep seperate the 14th and Nea. The whole 'Chapter 215's Nea ≠ 14th Noah Memory' is still theory and even have some contradictions. The main topic here is already a bunch of tangled threads.

    About the eye took Allen back in chapter 198: That cursed eye is the only thing left 'living' of Mana, who originally gave Allen a reason to live. If 'someone', even just illusion or mere memories, must wake Allen up, it has to be Mana. Even though, I don't really understand why the eye in chapter 210-211 returned to its old shape before its evolution in Krory's castle.

    About how Allen de-aged: This is not serious or exactly the same method but it could be...[massive Pandora Hearts spoiler]
    Spoiler show

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Aracely's Avatar
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    My (totally unsubstantiated, of course) theory is as follows: Allen was successfully on the run for the several years, but then he was caught by the Apocryphos. Apocryphos didn't want the 14th to be destroyed right then and there, and instead decided to implant Allen with Innocence and revert his age, wiping his memory too. Then, he let Allen go, and Allen ended up at the circus (we know he was sold to the circus by someone, but not by whom).

    Since Allen couldn't even remember his own name and he was much younger than anyone looking for the host would be likely to consider as a possibility, it was unlikely that anyone would be able to find him. But the Apocryphos could find him any time it wanted, tracking him with the Innocence. Its aim was to wait until a convenient time and then merge with Allen. Maybe, to be certain of success, it had to wait until the 14th had semi-awakened, or maybe it had to wait until Allen had forged a strong bond with the Innocence before the Apocryphos could successfully merge with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDSS View Post
    2- How he change his hair colour? Past-Allen has, blonde or white, in the picture is not painting black, so is one of that colours, likely blonde... but then, when he finish the rejuvenation, he has it red... Maybe because Nea's memories, because Nea has red hair...
    Past-Allen's hair colour is almost certainly the same as current-Allen's former hair colour: brown. On the fourth page of chapter 215, we see a panel of past-Allen next to one of child-Allen, and the screen tone for the hair is the same shade for both of them. On page 5, the picture of him doesn't have so much screen tone on it at all, but the final version of the picture released in the volumes has a strange blurry effect on it, so that'll just be a stylistic thing.

    From what I've seen of Hoshino's art for Nea, he probably has dark brown or black hair, not red.

    Quote Originally Posted by non-chan View Post
    I don't really trust Hoshino's view of colors, but she had Nea's hair dark bluish purple.
    Yeah...she is not exactly consistent when it comes to colours. We know that Lenalee canonically has black hair, for example, but Hoshino has been known to shade it in various colours (blue, green, brown, etc), and in the most recent work, she's portrayed Lenalee's black hair as various shades of purple.

    Nea's hair is dark purple in the colour art on the back of vol.24, and in the alternate cover for vol.24, it's a lighter purple with blue, green, and orange highlights. Also, we know that Nea looks just like Tyki, so they probably have the same hair colour. Tyki's hair has been shaded in various ways over time, including bright blue, but on the cover art for vol.22, Tyki is shown with dark purple hair about the same shade as Nea's from vol.24. Though, actually they're both in Noah form there, I think. So that might not count after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDSS View Post
    What is clair is that Nea and the 14th knew that he has "something", surely the power of rejuvenation, that is why is called "The destroyer of time"... Nea and the 14th chose someone special like non-chan said, because if not, why then Allen?
    Nea was surprised about Allen's not having aged, and stated that as far as he knew, Allen had no anti-ageing ability, so that outright rules out Nea having been aware of such a thing.

    The way that past-Allen was talking suggests to me that the reason Nea used Allen for his memories could simply have been because Allen volunteered. Allen was telling Nea to use him for the memories, and seemed to be trying to persuade Nea that he would be a good host. And Nea probably didn't have any other volunteers there.
    Last edited by Aracely; March 12, 2014 at 01:53 PM. Reason: correcting chapter number

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member JDSS's Avatar
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    #Non-chan
    About sepparating Nea and the 14th, look at a thread about that, it is two or one under this, is made by kannazuki. Summarizing, Nea is the host of the 14th, like Tiky the host of Joyd, etc. But the Noahs take the humans name, less The 1st, Adam, his true name. I mean, Nea was the host, I dont know how and when he became, aproblem of this is why the 14th introduce himself in 198 as "Nea", but in that thread I answer about too, remember the shadow? It has importance
    Look there, It could help you. (Other thread)

    About the thread, the thread here is about the rejuvenation, I put some notes for me and for others that read this, when I do it, I put next to that"but this is other thread" "other thread" , so, almost dont look at it, do it if you are interested, but it's no more than a "note", so, in a future I will star threads about what I put there, or other person, it's not just for me
    Thanks for postting, this is going well, dont worry, I am going to do a summary




    #Aracely, thanks for postting, I answer you here too, thanks about the topic of the hair, I can't say about being surprise in 215 about the rejuvenation, because I sepparate Nea and the 14th, so It's quite different and difficult to explain, but this is other thread
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Well, this is difficult because only I sepparate the 14th and Nea, but summarising... About the thread:

    --- Past-Allen could have already Innocence, the Heart, and because of it, do the rejuvenation, ("destroyer of time"), and that's why he was decided to help Nea and keep his memories, no matter how long! No matter how long! That sentence is important.
    Years later, Apo went to Allen and delete him his memories because the awakening of the 14th...


    --- Past-Allen couldn't have Innocence, and just wanted to help Nea, so not decided, but then are the problems of why he doesn't matter how long
    from where he could rejuvenate
    And a detail, when he get his Innocence
    Well, after that, like the other theory, Apo went to him and delete him his memories because the awakening



    I don't know if I forgot something in the summary, and about the hair... Well, likely yes, Past-Allen had it red... Quite wrong drawing like blonde in 215...
    And about the eye, is more than a curse, it has a bit of Mana
    Last edited by JDSS; March 13, 2014 at 08:07 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Allen rejuvenation

    Quote Originally Posted by JDSS View Post
    #Non-chan
    About sepparating Nea and the 14th, look at a thread about that, it is two or one under this, is made by kannazuki. Summarizing, Nea is the host of the 14th, like Tiky the host of Joyd, etc. But the Noahs take the humans name, less The 1st, Adam, his true name. I mean, Nea was the host, I dont know how and when he became, aproblem of this is why the 14th introduce himself in 198 as "Nea", but in that thread I answer about too, remember the shadow? It has importance
    Look there, It could help you. (Other thread)

    About the thread, the thread here is about the rejuvenation, I put some notes for me and for others that read this, when I do it, I put next to that"but this is other thread" "other thread" , so, almost dont look at it, do it if you are interested, but it's no more than a "note", so, in a future I will star threads about what I put there, or other person, it's not just for me
    I participated in that thread too, but the thread went too confusing that I have been waiting until I can think something out

    Quote Originally Posted by Aracely View Post

    Nea was surprised about Allen's not having aged, and stated that as far as he knew, Allen had no anti-ageing ability, so that outright rules out Nea having been aware of such a thing.

    The way that past-Allen was talking suggests to me that the reason Nea used Allen for his memories could simply have been because Allen volunteered. Allen was telling Nea to use him for the memories, and seemed to be trying to persuade Nea that he would be a good host. And Nea probably didn't have any other volunteers there.
    It's not like Nea had much choice. He was on a verge of death there just as Cross said: He must make decision when someone was unlucky enough to be nearby, so Allen would not have to trying to convince Nea to use the host. Besides, I don't feel like he was even trying. Past!Allen looked really calm there, at least calmer than Current!Allen, or it's just because he obviously is more mature than Current!Allen.

    About the hair color: The most faithful source to this probably the anime, even though less or more than half of the 1st season is non-canon. For the look of it, shota!Allen's hair is very close to yellow-ish brown.Both Past!Allen and Apocryphos could always use the hair dye


    =====
    I admit that I feel there are strong connection between the mysteries: about the Past!Allen and Current!Allen with all the Heart , Destroyer of time, the Musician song's contents thing, how Mana and the Earl related, Nea and the 14th Noah memories, whats with Tyki, even about the Bookman clan and the Campbell family. However, I can't point it out what. It's just like we have all information needed, but lack an actual story.
    Last edited by non-chan; March 13, 2014 at 02:02 AM. Reason: Typo

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