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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
I wouldn't say that past!Allen was looking wild in that scene, not by any means, but I wouldn't call him really calm there either. The shape of his mouth in that scene looks quite wide open to me, and he's definitely exclaiming. The Japanese version of the page gives him two exclamation marks at the end of his sentence.
Image yoinked from another thread here:
I don't think past!Allen is obviously more mature than the current one. We don't really know enough about him at this point. I'd say there's no proof that the past!Allen was "older" than the current!Allen at the time when he took on Nea's memory, and it may even make more sense for past!Allen to have been around about the same apparent age at that time as current!Allen is. Nea starts off in chapter 215 saying that Allen stayed the same age since 35 years ago and then saying that Allen had no anti-ageing ability that he knew of, and then, after the frame showing child!Allen, he corrects himself and says that Allen has actually even got younger. Which Allen would have to have done in order to become a child of the age in that frame, even if he had since grown to about the same age as past!Allen was the last time Nea had seen him.
Last edited by Aracely; March 12, 2014 at 02:42 PM. Reason: changing image
Well, a detail more thanks to Aracely and non-chan, past-Allen was shouting... Then, for sure, he was decided and no matter how long! could then had the Heart and that ability? Likely, but... Nea (and the 14th) would knew it... Then why surprise in 215? (rethoric question)
And Allen knew he was helping a Noah (and the host)... He was an exorcist because of all I've just said, so, other partner that Nea and the 14th had... 3 for the moment... And because to help like that... Maybe he was in the 3rd side... Like the others two, Cross and... A secretly old man (Other thread)
Whatever passed during the 20 years before Apo likely deleted Allen his memories, and more threads, it's impossible to know with a little more details...
Maybe one day we will go to JQ's website and we have a surprise
Last edited by JDSS; March 13, 2014 at 10:01 AM.
A very distant outside possibility is if somehow, by being the "Destroyer of Time," Allen can go back in time --but the chances of that look pretty slim. The only reason I sometimes think of this as a possibility is because there's clearly something important he's supposed to be learning about Nea that will make Allen sympathetic toward his Third Side of the war. Problems with this of course include that, first, the 14th's memory has to "leave" Allen somehow in the present day, and second, it doesn't appear that past Allen has the scar over his eye. So as I said it's extremely unlikely but I still think the possibility is worth considering.
Last edited by kannazuki; March 13, 2014 at 08:00 PM.
All time abilities are extremely tricky and complex, if Miranda's is not tricky and complex enough, especially time travel. A single action in one timeline could lead to several of sequences and aftermaths
I don't know how this related, but this traffic light is clearly not belonged to DGM's time (late 19th century), yet it still appeared in Allen's dream
Last edited by non-chan; March 14, 2014 at 01:46 AM.
Oh yes, that infamous dream. I read somewhere that there were two-light traffic lights in some places at the time (?) but that's a three-light traffic light so it definitely shouldn't exist yet. Also all of the buildings behind them appear to be styles from different times in the 20th century. One of them looks like maybe the Empire State Building of NY? I wonder if someone who knows architecture could recognize the other buildings? They might be famous in the architecture &/or design worlds...
Last edited by kannazuki; March 14, 2014 at 02:13 AM.
kannazuki, I do admit to find it likely that the concept of the 'Destroyer of Time', as you mentioned before being significant to how Allen might have gotten younger. But that reading was made by Hevlaska when she ( or he??) studied his innocence right? that would suggest that his ability to destroy his linear concept of time is somehow tied to his innocence right?
(If that's the case)Neah was shocked when he saw current Allen's innocence right? Then, I'd say maybe past Allen somehow managed to get ahold of his supposedly parasitic Innocence type after his interaction with Neah, therefore enabling him to get that ability and name 'Destroyer of Time'? Or perhaps I'm reading too much into this and Hevlaska made that reading without needing to study the Innocence to find that out :/
I am confused about that Hevlaska's prophecy part too. I remembered she said that it was Allen's Innocence (Crown Clown/Cross) would give birth to the 'Destroyer of time', and yet later, Bookman mentioned Allen as the 'Destroyer of time'.
Here. I personally think it's 19th century's New York, but the traffic light was so out of place.
I'm also really keen to discuss about how Allen supposedly rejuvenated and yet lost some of his memories? If I remember correctly, Nea asked himself when he was in control why Allen doesn't remember him? Did getting the Innocence have anything to do with that as well(Innocence in exchange for memory)?
A few things I'm wondering right now regarding Allen's rejuvenation
1. I also find it interesting how none of the members of the Noah appear to have expected Nea to reincarnate with a person with Innocence, including Nea himself.
2. Did the past Allen somehow know he was going to get Innocence compatible later on? If he did does that suggest he knew somebody high up in the Church to be able to get that type of privilege by any chance?
3. And if he did know that he was going to get Innocence, why did he not tell Nea about this if he knew he was a Noah? Was past Allen by any chance planning something under the hood as well (though that sounds far fetched given current Allen's sense of helplessness right now)?
That's also a part of plan.
Since Noah's reincarnation chooses one random person in entire world, they didn't expect Nea to be an exception. Imagine there are like 19 Exorcists in the entire world with a population of 1262 millions at that time, giving chance to be an Exorcist is 1.5 x 10^-8, combining chances to be a Noah, which is even smaller...Quote:
This reminds me Road's line about she suspected Crown Clown chose Allen because it knew who he really was, but she didn't state what was 'who'.Quote:
Last edited by non-chan; June 06, 2014 at 04:13 AM.
yes it does make one wonder about how Crown Clown chose Allen. But in that past Allen timeframe, do you think he could have used a method similar to the one the Black Order used to forcefully have adapters take in Innocence fragments to determine compatibility in order to get that Innocence ? Maybe past Allen himself knew that the Innocence fragment was somehow compatible with him and that it would help him destroy time?
As for the reincarnation part though, didn't Nea choose to reincarnate within Walker? That's how Mana knew that Nea was imprinted in Allen right? I know for usual cases Noah are reincarnated at random but Nea's case was different wasn't it? It may have been decided in desperation but it was still to a degree planned right ?(or maybe I'm getting this wrong) :/
About the Destroyer of Time thing, there was a scene in chapter 187 where we were shown a picture of a large clock with figures that clearly represented the Earl and the Noahs standing by it, with the Earl talking about how the other 12 Noahs had reincarnated through history in order to help him. So I assume that the main thing the Destroyer of Time will do (whether it's Allen or his Innocence or a combination of things) will be breaking the Noah cycle/killing the Earl/something to that effect.
But it could be many other things in addition to that, especially to do with Allen's rejuvenation. For example...what if past-Allen fell into a time warp or something, and in the process his time was reverted to early childhood? If that happened early on in the 35 years, then hey, maybe he wasn't on the run for as long as we currently think he must have been. And we know that Innocence which can affect time does exist, so that's another option: perhaps the Apocryphos could have done it, or perhaps Crown Clown has that ability. The memory loss could just be because of having his time wound back, but it could also be due to the Apocryphos wiping Allen's memories at some point in the past (because the way Apocryphos spoke to Allen about him having become a fine Exorcist makes me think that he must have met Allen sometime before). The problem is that there are so many things that could have caused the age reversion and memory loss. I feel as if Hoshino left off at a really tantalising point but one where it's so hard to theorise about how it came about.
About young Allen, it's a bit sad/curious to see his distressed reaction to Mana's memory loss in Reverse 3. Allen's own lack of memories must have made him empathise with Mana's loss even more. (And that's even though Allen isn't aware of the full extent of his own memory loss.)
We've only seen a little bit of the scene between past-Allen and Nea where Allen told Nea to use him, so we can't say for certain what was going on, but to me it looks as if that was the scene where (in desperation, on both sides) Allen offered to be the host and Nea accepted. So, Nea using Allen wasn't random in that evidently they both agreed to the plan. My guess from the context is that before that scene, there was no firm plan for Allen to be the next host, although Allen must have known enough about the Noah memories in advance to know that it was possible for Nea to pass his memories to someone.
So it seems to me that while the traffic light is the first clue, the skyscrapers seem to reach into the future with their increasingly modern architecture.
I agree that Road might be on to something with Allen's Innocence choosing him because it knew there was a Noah inside him. There's no question that Apocryphos knew this as well. It's only now that Nea has begun to awaken that Apo came in and started talking about what a wonderful Exorcist Allen grew to become and all. But as for how Allen got younger, somehow I don't think it was the Innocence by itself. Maybe under the right circumstances, Innocence and Dark Matter can combine to form a greater power? Allen being an unawakened Noah might have been the key to making it work instead of one just destroying the other.
Last edited by kannazuki; June 06, 2014 at 12:30 PM.
What if Allen did die, but the Apo created a new body for his soul with the Nea attached to it.
If there's brain transfer for Kanda anything is possible.
The clue in all this is:
"Use me, I will protect your memory, no matter what.":
"Use me, I'll protect your memory", Allen knew the Noah and the rest of things, if not, who would want to be used?
"no matter what", Allen had something, a power, he was decided he could face death and win if Nea hadn't awake during the years... how? getting younger (Destroyer of time?)
What it would be good to know is if Crown Clown went to Allen before or after that moment, in other words, if Allen had C.C. at that moment (when he is talking with dying Nea), I think because of the words of Road that he didn't have C.C. (she said that C.C. went to him kmowing who he was:
if she is reffering about being a host (likely), no C.C.
But if she is reffering that he is more... He knew the Noah and wanted to help and plus with any problem, like I said in the beggining of this post, the clue. He had something, and he is more what we thought
Last edited by JDSS; June 08, 2014 at 06:19 PM.