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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
He didn't underestimate Yushi, who would have guessed that Yushi had the perfect inherent ability to stop Momo's insight. Momo never took him lightly, he simply chose what he thought was a better strategy, it's even said at the end that had Yushi's Higuma Otoshi landed out he wouldn't have beaten Momo. As for the Jackal/ Marui battle he didn't get arrogant if anything he gave them their only chance to win by thinking clearly and making up their snake and dunk strategy. He didn't underestimate them, they were just better. And in all fairness the Anime doesn't count as really anything could happen, in Canon Sengoku never fairly beat Momo.
After looking at how the top tier players play tennis, I believe Mouri and Ochi were trying to fled the U17 so they threw the game against Atobe and Niou.
Edit: Let's think about how fishy the whole Atobe & Niou game is.
Is it really possible Kabaji is strong enough to knock off both Mouri and Ochi's racket?
Mouri and Ochi clearly can counter Tezuka Zone, or the tiebreaker wouldn't have reached 56-56 or so, so how did they let Niou tie the game being down 0-6?
Even if Atobe can see all their blind spots, it'd only work if Mouri and Ochi's blindspot overlap. We know from way back against Sanada that a top player has a very small blindspot, so what are the chances both of their blindspot overlap so that they can't hit back Atobe Kingdom?
And of course, there's the whole ridiculous notion of conceding a point when a third person jumped in and scored a point.
It's clear those two are putting an act to quit the U17 camp without getting killed. For all we know, Byodouin could've buried the previous #4 in an unmarked grave for trying to flee the camp while they're overseas after seeing how hardcore tennis really is.
Last edited by Phantron; March 21, 2014 at 12:22 AM.
@ Phantron: LOL
@Ganonslayer: Actually Kaido/Momo kept saying "Sorry, but we're going to win this match". They only managed to win points since they actually put effort into the match but still lost. Marui/Jackal still out did them. His losses don't give him any character development. He does get better at coming with strategies, but he's still too arrogant.
What do you want him to say? ¨OK, LET'S LOSE THIS KAIDOU, FOR TEZUKA!¨
LOL You don't see Fuji or Tezuka saying "Sorry but I'm winning this match today." They just play. Tezuka says "Don't let your guard down". That's all he basically says anyway. The audience expects Tezuka to win but you don't see him saying what Momo says.
They conscously come up with strategies. Momo does this too but he has the need to say out loud that he will win when half the time he won't.
Actually, I've literally seen Fuji saying that.
¨Sorry, I won't lose to the same opponent twice¨.
Except he doesn't say that at every match then lose.
Which is a much more frightening combo with Atobe than Niou could perform.
As for Atobe/Yukimura VS Mouri/Ochi, I believe since Niou MUST have hit back some Mach's for the match to make mathematical sense, then Yukimura will without question hit it back way before Niou would have in the match since Yukimura >>> Niou.
Sanada with KnA paired with Atobe should truly outdo Mouri/Ochi overall.
Sanada's stamina is solid, and I imagine that Rai won't be completely useless.
It will by no means be an easy win, but a more convincing win than what Atobe/Niou did.
Its not like Ohmagari is small at all. Its that KnA is 100% about reflexes as oppose to coverage. I mean, Ohmagari is pretty quick, so coverage isn't his problem.
But if it could have taken a game off of Ohmagari which I believe it would have unless Tanegashima intervened, then it is definitely taking games off of Mouri imho.
In Tech & Mental, Yukimura is pretty good and Atobe can make up for the lack of stamina, and Yuki has more stamina than Niou iirc.
I see a 2-1 set win to Yuki/Atobe but very close.
I agree that KnA won't take a set from Ochi/Mouri,
In fact, I think there is some kind of threshold to see who will get raped by Mental Pressure.
I reckon anything below 5 can allow the opponent to get wrecked by Mental Pressure and unless you have a 7 in Mental you can't avoid it.
Both Sanada and Atobe would get really damaged by it, I don't see it taking more than a game from Yuki with his 6 in Mental.
It was an entertaining match, but I look back all the time and see, Atobe/Niou are genuinely inferior to Mouri/Ochi.
Mouri/Ochi should never have lost to them.
Although, I can explain the first set to you though.
The phrase "60% limit" was frequented a lot by the Top HSers. So they probably put some of their stats at 60% at the start.
Or rather, that's EXACTLY what happened.
It explains why Kimijima/Tohno even conceded games to Kite/Marui, they trolled for a long time, had fun with the Negotiation then Tohno got too serious although in reality Kimijima didn't get serious once.
It explains why Duke dropped a game to Gin.
It explains why Oni dropped the first 3 games to Kintaro. It was just 60% limit, then they bring out their best stuff afterwards.
(Although, Kintaro pretty much contained Oni after he brought out some good moves til Oni brought out AnS)
Not only are there stats equal, but Fuwa lacks the hack special ability that Konomi got from Yuki which was to be able to hit back practically every shot. "To see through special moves".
The sweat is because Yukimura's stamina is a basic 3.5, Yukimura's stamina and Power isn't so good. So that explains his sweat. It should have been due to being pushed back by Fuwa, considering Yukimura was able to outplay him so bad that he fell under Yips.
Remember, that Yukimura VS Fuwa is the longest match out of the whole Revolution.
It began when people like Nakagauchi and Washio/Suzuki lost to the 1st String and didn't end til the Revolution ended so it makes sense Yukimura's weak stamina let him down a little.
Yuki saw KnA just ONCE. And he missed it. He's never faced it since that one point.
Ohmagari hit back the first time seeing it because he had TWO damn rackets. That doesn't even make sense and is a reason why I'm not keen on that match.
Had Ohmagari played tennis like a normal person and not a retard, KnA would have owned him for several games and I think that's clear since Ohmagari was shown to really need both rackets just to hit the ball back.
I strongly doubt Yukimura will be in the same position against KnA if he faces it again.
Secondly, with 2 rackets, its hard to really say he crushed them Single-handedly as he used two hands lol. I don't even know how to measure his ability there.
its ridiculous what happened there. With one racket though, I don't see him containing Sanada/Akutsu like that.
Last edited by Airgrimes; March 22, 2014 at 07:31 AM.
I suppose the stats suggest they would have somewhat of a more even match than what
But I strongly believe that the reason Yuki sweat there was because of his weak Stamina stat. Like you said, Fuwa trolled and didn't notice he was getting his ass-kicked when he used the handicap. Its particularly unlikely Yuki was put in any kind of struggling situation since Yuki didn't have any side dialogue where he mentions he was struggling, whilst all the other MSers challenging 12-19 who were weaker opponents each had their own side dialogue where they spoke of their dilemma against their opponent.
When Tanegashima took his racket back, Ohmagari was back to one racket so your point is void there.
Secondly, it says "He is able to use two rackets". Not that his specific tennis is to always use 2 rackets. I mean, when the game got more serious, Ohmagari went back to using only 1 racket.
Like I said, you cannot compare what happened with Yuki to Ohmagari because Yuki was playing tennis with ONE racket like everybody does.
Had Ohmagari not had two rackets, he would have lost the point just like Yuki. That is a fact.
Had Tanegashima not trolled, and decided to play, and not give Ohmagari his racket, then Ohmagari would have had 1 racket.
If Sanada used KnA before Tanegashima handed Ohmagari his racket, then it'd be a repeat of when Yukimura first saw KnA. That's a fact.
And seeing as he was owned in the first instant the KnA shot went by him, it took him a second attempt to hit the ball with his other racket to hit KnA back.
"His persistence and fighting spirit that he used to crawl up the rankings to the 1st String is quite admirable." is what the coach says.
My point was that had Ohmagari not been given Tanegashima's racket to hold, then none of this would have happened.
Personally, I find it odd that he began the match with one racket and ended the match with one racket. The whole Nitoryuu thing needs to be a explored more imho.
Again, Whilst you're right it was Ohmagari's first time seeing it,
The circumstances are a little different.
Had Yukimura have 2 racquet, he probably would lose the point too.
1st attempt. Not second. Duh.
Here is that page. It doesn't mention anything about single and double. It just say rulebook. And "anything" in this case means in PoT world nothing is written about it. It's fine, even if you choose not to accept that.
Fact: Ohmagari hit Black Aura first time.
Fact: Yukimura fail the first time.
Fact: It is not known that Ohmagari can hit the Black Aura the first time he saw it if he was using 1 racquet.
If you believe your point is a fact, show me a 100% definite proof that Ohmagari definitely will not return Black Aura with 1 hand. Yes, I know he is using the other hand to try to hit the Black Aura. But that's because Ohmagari have 2 hand that can hit the ball back. It's not like you are using 1 hand on the game controller. If you have both hand, you'll use both. It's not known that he is incapable of reacting to a ball or not.
If you don't believe it, that's fine. It's just like Mouri or Fuwa's Mirror Eyes or Kintarou's potential. I only need to just keep waiting. It seem obvious to me that the data pair and the coach accepting the style means there's nothing illegal about it.
Last edited by -Ken-; March 25, 2014 at 08:24 AM.
granted I was wrong about Mirror by Fuwa, but as for Kintaro's improvement I was right, I only ever said he wasn't improving at the same rate as Ryoma and I was right, since Ryoma had 10ao before Kintaro got 10ao since he only got it mid-match with Oni.
Secondly, you don't see me bringing up how you got it completely wrong that 1stString's exact ranking number displayed their exact strength and refused to believe anything til it was stated like when I was saying Hakamada > Ban and you weren't accepting any of it.
I'll make my arguments rather simple. The circumstances were different because as far as Yukimura was concerened, Sanada was completely yipped and unable to play tennis.
In Ohmagari's case, Sanada was 100% able to play and fully involved in the match and all rallies.
It's obvious Yukimura was more caught off guard by the fact that someone broke out of yips and hit a strong return back in an instant, since excluding TnK, the MSers didn't know any other method to break Yips.
Ohmagari wasn't in a situation where his Sanada couldn't play tennis then he suddenly hit an amazing return of out of nowhere so the element of surprise was much much smaller.
As for the page showing Ohmagari will definitely not hit back KnA with one racket in his hand?
Its clear he intended to hit the ball with his right hand, but it swerves in a direction he didn't expect and quite frankly, if he didn't have 2 rackets at the time, Ohmagari would have lost the point, as amazing as he is.
While his first one obviously shows him anticipating the ball to go to his right hand side, the ball suddenly swerves to his left hand side and he uses the racket in his left hand suddenly. I think its pretty clear in a real match he wouldn't have had the time to pivot his body all the way round like that, or switch rackets from one hand to the other in time either.
While I agree, Ohmagari has better stats than Yuki and its very likely that overall Ohmagari is in fact better than Yukimura, I don't think he'd have necessarily handled KnA all that much better considering KnA is a really top notch move. If Tanegashima needs a special move to destroy it, and an exclusive move at that, since nobody else can use HDN other than Tanegashima, I think its safe to assume KnA is going to put pretty much all the players at the camp into a corner at the first few attempts.
Well, I remember saying that taking consideration about Kintarou improvement and his position in the manga, he can be consider to have a shot at beating Yukimura back then.
By that time, it's true that Kintarou doesn't 10 ball or PoP yet, but it's clear to me that he have the potential to become that strong. It's all already prove when Kintarou play his next match against Oni that he do have that much potential. I do remember majority of people voting against Kintarou. Oh, and vote that Sanada can beat Oni while Echizen can't. From what we've seen right now, it looks more like -6 to 6 to me. Sanada just isn't as good as people think he is. But I remember you saying people who vote like that is pretty crazy too.
---------- Post added at 06:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------
And Sanada was Yips, but that's Yukimura tech. True. But that should shows that Yukimura should do better. If Sanada was Yips during his match with Ohmagari, Ohmagari probably will do better too. And I call Yukimura putting his guard down the lacks of experience, which Ohmagari obviously have a ton more of.
And since Ohmagari have 2 hand at that time, he'll obviously use both hand. There's no one who would only parry an attack with a sword on his right if his opponent swing at his left and he's holding a sword on his left. That's pretty much what happen here.
And on the point that he was't using 2 racquets at the end of the match, I see it as he doesn't have to. His partner was already soloing both of his opponents 6-0. Why is there any need for him to join in? Oni doesn't use Kishin when he play against Kintarou back then and Tokugawa doesn't use the path or black hole either as far as we know. If Ohmagari are getting crush and he doesn't use 2 racquets, that'll be another story. But since his team (more like his partner) are winning 6-0 already, him not beating them down even more is not indication that he cannot do it.
Last edited by -Ken-; March 25, 2014 at 07:06 PM.
Is Kintaro still a 1st stringer? He challenged Oni and lost. And he was mentioned at the start at the match to be a 2nd stringer. He's not like Niou who returned his badge to aim for a higher number.
Otherwise there wouldn't be enough on the line for you to fight for. I'm pretty sure that Kintaro put his badge on the line to fight Oni.
He was mentioned most recently as a 2nd Stringer so I'm certain he still is.