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Thread: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

  1. #16
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Leoat12 View Post
    After all those different successes I wonder if the reason for not having a new successful action series is just because of the magazine really doesn't have space, or if the tastes of Jump readers is changing and giving less importance for action series. Maybe quality should be included in the opitions, too? Honestly, action series has been kinda weak these days. I think we will only find out the answer when this "space" is given, when Naruto end.
    They have the space. Most of the major action titles are gone, or in decline. D. Gray Man moved in 2009, Mago and Reborn ended in 2012, Medaka Box in April 2013, and Beelzebub recently. Bleach's ratings have declined badly, regularly ranking in the bottom five, too low to take votes away from newer series. Medaka Box and Beezleub also ranked low, before ending, not taking votes away from newer action series. Hunter x Hunter is taking one of it's longest ever hiatus. None of this has opened space or freed votes for new action manga. Nothing new has established itself in five years, longer if you don't count Medaka and Beelzebub. Beelzebub is the only example given that ended within the last six months, too recently to judge.

  2. #17
    MH's Best Reviewer 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    I would say it is quite the opposite. The last successful, new action series were Mago and Toriko in 2008, six years ago now. Beelzebub and Medaka were more hybrids, but even if you count them as action manga, they still came out in 2009, five years ago. There has been nothing since. Five or six years is too long to attribute to competition with established titles. It looks like a market shift.
    Is that really a market shift though?

    It's not like action adventure titles stopped being popular as a whole. When I look at the Japanese Comic Rankings I see Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach all sitting very close to the top. I suspect it's just more of a feature of failing to find the right story with the right characters for that story. The number #1 requirement of a good action/adventure is capturing people's imagination. I've given a try to almost every action series Jump has greenlighted in recent years and I just thought most weren't good enough.

    Jump doesn't really have to rush things though. As long as they've got One Piece jump will sell to action fans , when Bleach and Naruto shuts down they can take their time filling that vacuum. And it will probably be easier for a new series to get established in the rankings after that anyway.
    Last edited by Jammin; March 23, 2014 at 10:34 PM.
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  3. #18
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Leoat12's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizou 10 View Post
    The main reason that the past action series failed is that they are not interesting enough.
    It is a problem of quality then, a problem of 5-6 years old. It could be related with space as well because who will vote in a fairly interesting series if One Piece and/or Naruto was better that week? We should say that Jump is the worst magazine to serialize an action series nowadays.
    Illegal Rare and Stealth Symphony seem really good, so we are about to see a real test of my hypothesis?

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Leoat12 View Post
    It is a problem of quality then, a problem of 5-6 years old. It could be related with space as well because who will vote in a fairly interesting series if One Piece and/or Naruto was better that week? We should say that Jump is the worst magazine to serialize an action series nowadays.
    Illegal Rare and Stealth Symphony seem really good, so we are about to see a real test of my hypothesis?
    Well, I'm not sure if it is a quality problem, but the action series is like double edged sword. It is a genre which able to get popular as compared to other series, but it'll axe quickly as well if it failed to catch the readers attention.

    Serializing the action series comes with pretty high risk.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Leoat12 View Post
    After all those different successes I wonder if the reason for not having a new successful action series is just because of the magazine really doesn't have space, or if the tastes of Jump readers is changing and giving less importance for action series. Maybe quality should be included in the opitions, too? Honestly, action series has been kinda weak these days. I think we will only find out the answer when this "space" is given, when Naruto end.
    Quite sure readers are getting their action fixes elsewhere. Why invest in lower tier WSJ action series when one could get into higher tier series in Jump sq or even shonen sunday series like Magi or competitors series Attack on Titan in kodansha mags. A moratorium on new action series in jump is needed as at this rate nothing will really find a market until the major series end and when theres less competition out there.
    Last edited by SharkBait; March 23, 2014 at 10:40 PM.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    Quite sure readers are getting their action fixes elsewhere. Why invest in lower tier WSJ action series when one could get into higher tier series in Jump sq or even series like Magi or Attack on Titan in kodansha mags. A moratorium on new action series in jump is needed as at this rate nothing will really find a market until the major series end and when theres less competition out there.
    Magi is not from Kodansha.

  7. #22
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Leoat12's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    Is that really a market shift though?

    It's not like action adventure titles stopped being popular as a whole. When I look at the Japanese Comic Rankings I see Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach all sitting very close to the top. I suspect it's just more of a feature of failing to find the right story with the right characters for that story. The number #1 requirement of a good action/adventure is capturing people's imagination. I've given a try to almost every action series Jump has greenlighted in recent years and I just thought most weren't good enough.
    Naruto, One Piece and Bleach have the time in their sides. Even if the readers don't have the feeling to read new action series, they still will read those three because it almost makes part of the routine of everybody already. Many people badmouth about Naruto and Bleach but still read them because of the habit or just because they want to see the ending after years of reading.

  8. #23
    MH's Best Reviewer 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizou 10 View Post
    Well, I'm not sure if it is a quality problem, but the action series is like double edged sword. It is a genre which able to get popular as compared to other series, but it'll axe quickly as well if it failed to catch the readers attention.

    Serializing the action series comes with pretty high risk.
    It's also a genre that is reliant on worldbuilding as it starts up. Which makes them especially slow starters; and prone to some serious exposition.

    If you actually go back and read One Piece, Naruto, or Bleach all three started pretty slow.
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  9. #24
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    Is that really a market shift though?
    Absolutely. Not producing a single successful example of something for five or six years is a trend. That can not happen by accident. All examples cited were over ten years old. Naruto and One Piece both started in the 90's. They do not represent current trends. Bleach's TOC rankings indicate a sharp decline in popularity. Naruto and Bleach both are in the middle of climactic arcs. Toriko is the only current Jump action manga that is less than 10 years old. The rest have ended, or moved.
    Last edited by Kaiten; March 23, 2014 at 10:49 PM.

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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    It's also a genre that is reliant on worldbuilding as it starts up. Which makes them especially slow starters; and prone to some serious exposition.

    If you actually go back and read One Piece, Naruto, or Bleach all three started pretty slow.
    Furthermore, the first couple of chapters are kind of like generic/repetitive to the other genres. That's why people going to drop action series at the early stage.

    For the action series to surivive, it needs to show the attractive MC, the cool power, interesting world, and intereting topic within first few chapters. That's why the action series considers the double-edged sword.

  11. #26
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkBait View Post
    Quite sure readers are getting their action fixes elsewhere. Why invest in lower tier WSJ action series when one could get into higher tier series in Jump sq or even shonen sunday series like Magi or competitors series Attack on Titan in kodansha mags. A moratorium on new action series in jump is needed as at this rate nothing will really find a market until the major series end and when theres less competition out there.
    There will always be some popular action manga. It's a staple genre, not just of manga, but all forms of entertainment. The trend seems to be away from Dragonball inspired, super power action. Shingeki has little in common with Bleach, Naruto, Reborn or other 21st century Jump action hits. Magi is serialized in Shounen Sunday, where action has never been the primary genre.

  12. #27
    MH's Best Reviewer 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Leoat12 View Post
    Naruto, One Piece and Bleach have time in their side. Even if the readers don't have the feeling to read new action series, they still will read those three because it almost makes part of the routine of everybody already. Many people badmouth about Naruto and Bleach but still read it.
    When it comes to Naruto I am guilty as charged.

    But if you compare the Japanese comic rankings now with those of 2008 they don't really have more action series or more variety. They look about the same as far as I can tell.

    I don't see any reason to think there has been a market shift. Just a dry spell for series with that kind of potential. I mean, great series do not come along every day or even every year and when they do sometimes Jump isn't the one that gets them. This isn't anybody's fault or something that Jump is in any way responsible for. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

    Would Jump have liked to get more recent action series like Nanatsu no Taizai or UQ Holder? Probably, but they didn't. Thems the breaks.
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  13. #28
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    I don't see any reason to think there has been a market shift. Just a dry spell for series with that kind of potential. I mean, great series do not come along every day or even every year and when they do sometimes Jump isn't the one that gets them. This isn't anybody's fault or something that Jump is in any way responsible for. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.
    Six years is one hell of a dry spell


  14. #29
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Leoat12's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    When it comes to Naruto I am guilty as charged.

    But if you compare the Japanese comic rankings now with those of 2008 they don't really have more action series or more variety. They look about the same as far as I can tell.

    I don't see any reason to think there has been a market shift. Just a dry spell for series with that kind of potential. I mean, great series do not come along every day or even every year and when they do sometimes Jump isn't the one that gets them. This isn't anybody's fault or something that Jump is in any way responsible for. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.

    Would Jump have liked to get more recent action series like Nanatsu no Taizai or UQ Holder? Probably, but they didn't. Thems the breaks.
    That could be true, but many series with great potential appeared in Jump in the last years, none of them were an action series, though. That's why I think it is either a problem of quality or readers are changing their vision towards Jump, they are seeking for action series in other magazines while diversifying in Jump. Personally, it would be the second for me, I wouldn't like Jump crammed with actions series, the way it is now is the best way for me. An action series is not necessary for me now. A market shift as whole, probably not, new action series are making success in other magazines; but a changing of mind within Jump, maybe.

    Nanatsu no Taizai and UQ Holder are hard to discuss because we don't know it they would survive in Jump, which has a completly different system.

  15. #30
    MH's Best Reviewer 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Six years is one hell of a dry spell
    It's really not. See for yourself. Dragon Ball and Yu Yu Hakusho were exactly 6 years apart. With another 4 years until Ruroni Kenshin.

    Strictly speaking the anomaly was hitting with One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach as close together as they did.

    ---------- Post added at 01:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Leoat12 View Post
    That could be true, but many series with great potential appeared in Jump in the last years, none of them were any action series, though. That's why I think it is either a problem of quality or readers are changing their vision towards Jump, they are seeking for action series in other magazines while diversifying in Jump. Personally, it would be the second for me, I wouldn't like Jump crammed with actions series, the way it is now is the best way for me. An action series is not necessary for me now. A market shift as whole, probably not, new action series are making success in other magazines; but a changing of mind within Jump, maybe.

    Nanatsu no Taizai and UQ Holder are hard to discuss because we don't know it they would survive in Jump, which has a completely different system.
    The funny thing in all this is that Jump is already fairly action heavy. One Piece, Toriko, Bleach, and Naruto.

    Naruto and Bleach may be ending but they aren't over yet. Until they are actually over there really is no need to do an push for action series. Right now, I think the Jump editors are just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks(how else do you wind up with 2 cooking mangas). If a new action/adventure series sticks, great . But if it doesn't that doesn't seem like a huge area of concern until those long running series actually end.

    It's like in football when a team doesn't have a pressing need in the draft. They draft the best player available. I think, that's exactly what Jump is doing.
    Last edited by Jammin; March 24, 2014 at 12:24 AM.
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