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Thread: Indra and Ashura through the generations

  1. #1
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Indra and Ashura through the generations

    In the recent chapter we heard about the sage's children, Indra and Ashura, and that their chakra transmigrated over time.

    I thought it would be interesting to compare each generation and find who was the closest to the brothers personalities.

    First lets recap on the brothers individual traits

    Indra
    • Powerful eyes
    • Battle Sense
    • Known as a genius
    • Did everything on his own
    • Thought that power could make anything happen

    Ashura
    • Couldn't do anything well
    • Needed much effort
    • Needed cooperation of others
    • Gained power by suffering and training hard
    • Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen


    Now here's my thought's on each generation:

    1st Generation

    Madara - likeness of Indra?

    +Had powerful eyes
    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Eventually tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen
    +Direct heritage with Indra

    -He initially seemed to cooperate with Hashirama and changed after gaining the sharigan and then again after being rejected by his clan.

    Hashirama - likeness of Ashura?

    +Needed cooperation of others
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen
    +Direct heritage with Ashura

    -Seemed to very strong even at a young age. Was always stronger than Madara
    -Doesn't seem like he had to train hard or suffer

    2nd Generation

    Danzo - likeness of Indra?

    +Had great battle sense
    +Eventually tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen

    -Had to gain powerful eyes by stealing a sharingan
    -I cant recall him being referred to as a genius
    -No direct heritage with Indra

    Hiruzen - likeness of Ashura?

    +Sought cooperation of others and tried to see the good in everyone
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen

    -Was often praised as a genius although not much is known about his youth
    -Doesn't seem like he had to train hard or suffer
    -No direct heritage with Ashura

    3rd Generation

    Orochimaru - likeness of Indra?

    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen

    -Didn't have powerful eyes although this is something he has always sought.
    -No direct heritage with Indra

    Jiraiya - likeness of Ashura?

    +Couldn't do anything well
    +Needed much effort
    +Needed cooperation of others
    +Gained power by suffering and training hard
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen

    -No direct heritage with Ashura

    4th Generation (really struggled with this one)

    Nagato - likeness of Indra?

    +Had powerful eyes
    +Had great battle sense
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen

    -Direct Heritage with Ashura rather than Indra
    -Was not born with powerful eyes

    Minato - likeness of Ashura?

    +Sought cooperation of others
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen

    -No direct heritage with Ashura
    -Was praised as a genius

    5th Generation

    Kakashi - Initially likeness of Indra?

    +Had a powerful eye
    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen

    -He was not born with his powerful eye
    -No direct heritage with Indra
    -He changed to be more like Ashura after the deaths of Obito and Rin

    Obito - likeness of Ashura?

    +Couldn't do anything well
    +Needed much effort
    +Needed cooperation of others
    +Gained power by suffering and training hard
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen

    -Direct heritage with Indra rather than Ashura
    -Changed to be more like Indra after meeting Madara

    *this generation was interesting in that after Obito's "death" they both switched roles.

    6th Generation

    Sasuke - likeness of Indra!

    +Had powerful eyes
    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen
    +Direct Heritage with Indra

    -Was not like this until after the massacre of his claim

    Naruto - likeness of Ashura!

    +Couldn't do anything well
    +Needed much effort
    +Needed cooperation of others
    +Gained power by suffering and training hard
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen
    +Direct heritage with Ashura


    Let me know if there's anything/anyone I've missed and if there's anything you agree/disagree with.

  2. #2
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Indra and Ashura through the generations

    The main point I take issue with is the overlapping generations. With the traditional take on reincarnation, some of these just wouldn't work because the existence of the potential successor predates the loss of the potential predecessor. For example, in the case of Hiruzen, he didn't perish until after every one of those listed as Ashura's successors came to be, the demise of one of them, Minato, happens before his own. The same goes for Danzo. It's possible that when reincarnation was mentioned it entails something different within the context, but if it's the classic take, this list has too many people on it. And amongst the list, in general, I think some of them are just added because they're good guys and others because they've played the role of villain.

  3. #3
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zasz's Avatar
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    Re: Indra and Ashura through the generations

    I think that the reincarnations followed this pattern: unknown ninjas-Madara and Hashirama-Naruto and Sasuke (present).
    But this is just me making speculations about this topic, it's not like hat I wrote her is absolute. XD

  4. #4
    Reviewer 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member narutotheory's Avatar
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    Re: Indra and Ashura through the generations

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonballN View Post
    In the recent chapter we heard about the sage's children, Indra and Ashura, and that their chakra transmigrated over time.

    I thought it would be interesting to compare each generation and find who was the closest to the brothers personalities.

    First lets recap on the brothers individual traits

    Indra
    • Powerful eyes
    • Battle Sense
    • Known as a genius
    • Did everything on his own
    • Thought that power could make anything happen

    Ashura
    • Couldn't do anything well
    • Needed much effort
    • Needed cooperation of others
    • Gained power by suffering and training hard
    • Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen


    Now here's my thought's on each generation:

    1st Generation

    Madara - likeness of Indra?

    +Had powerful eyes
    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Eventually tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen
    +Direct heritage with Indra

    -He initially seemed to cooperate with Hashirama and changed after gaining the sharigan and then again after being rejected by his clan.

    Hashirama - likeness of Ashura?

    +Needed cooperation of others
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen
    +Direct heritage with Ashura

    -Seemed to very strong even at a young age. Was always stronger than Madara
    -Doesn't seem like he had to train hard or suffer

    2nd Generation

    Danzo - likeness of Indra?

    +Had great battle sense
    +Eventually tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen

    -Had to gain powerful eyes by stealing a sharingan
    -I cant recall him being referred to as a genius
    -No direct heritage with Indra

    Hiruzen - likeness of Ashura?

    +Sought cooperation of others and tried to see the good in everyone
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen

    -Was often praised as a genius although not much is known about his youth
    -Doesn't seem like he had to train hard or suffer
    -No direct heritage with Ashura

    3rd Generation

    Orochimaru - likeness of Indra?

    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen

    -Didn't have powerful eyes although this is something he has always sought.
    -No direct heritage with Indra

    Jiraiya - likeness of Ashura?

    +Couldn't do anything well
    +Needed much effort
    +Needed cooperation of others
    +Gained power by suffering and training hard
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen

    -No direct heritage with Ashura

    4th Generation (really struggled with this one)

    Nagato - likeness of Indra?

    +Had powerful eyes
    +Had great battle sense
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen

    -Direct Heritage with Ashura rather than Indra
    -Was not born with powerful eyes

    Minato - likeness of Ashura?

    +Sought cooperation of others
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen

    -No direct heritage with Ashura
    -Was praised as a genius

    5th Generation

    Kakashi - Initially likeness of Indra?

    +Had a powerful eye
    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen

    -He was not born with his powerful eye
    -No direct heritage with Indra
    -He changed to be more like Ashura after the deaths of Obito and Rin

    Obito - likeness of Ashura?

    +Couldn't do anything well
    +Needed much effort
    +Needed cooperation of others
    +Gained power by suffering and training hard
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen

    -Direct heritage with Indra rather than Ashura
    -Changed to be more like Indra after meeting Madara

    *this generation was interesting in that after Obito's "death" they both switched roles.

    6th Generation

    Sasuke - likeness of Indra!

    +Had powerful eyes
    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen
    +Direct Heritage with Indra

    -Was not like this until after the massacre of his claim

    Naruto - likeness of Ashura!

    +Couldn't do anything well
    +Needed much effort
    +Needed cooperation of others
    +Gained power by suffering and training hard
    +Thought that love and cooperation could make anything happen
    +Direct heritage with Ashura


    Let me know if there's anything/anyone I've missed and if there's anything you agree/disagree with.
    Sasuke - likeness of Indra!

    +Had powerful eyes
    +Had great battle sense
    +Known as a genius
    +Tried to do everything on his own
    +Thought that power could make anything happen
    +Direct Heritage with Indra

    -Was not like this until after the massacre of his clan

    How is that one a minus? Indra wasn't an asshole until Daddy picked Ashura to take on leadership of Ninshuu.

  5. #5
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Indra and Ashura through the generations

    Jiraiya seems to be a "reincarnation" of Ashura more than anyone else, except for maybe Naruto. Jiraiya and Ashura were known to suck when they were younger, apparently, but they eventually became one of the best of their time to the point that they were able to (?) match with their rival/enemy. One could argue Naruto sucked because of his bad habit and not putting effort, and when he did put effort, he improved.

  6. #6
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jack Van Burace's Avatar
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    Re: Indra and Ashura through the generations

    Well, if you look at Hagoromo's brother's staff, that on top looks a lot like the Senju symbol. IMO, both Hyuuga and Senju are descendants of Hagoromo's brother, not from the Rikudou, in fact. We've all heard that the Hyuuga were related to the Uchiwas too, but turns out Hagoromo didn't inherit the Byakugan (his brother is likely to be the one) so it does in fact make a lot of sense in that way: using Senjutsu or Mokuton's thousand arms' Mokujin (Senju actually means 'thousand arms'), his brother would use Hyuuga's trigrams' palms trully as an ultimate defense, really, as well as damaging the Jyuubi if he had Senjutsu. Having Mokuton, he would naturally gather natural chakra, much like Juugo's body does now (likely one of Senju's related clans). Hagoromo's brother would thus be the fight oriented brother of his generation, while Hagoromo would be the 'constriction one'.

    Hagoromo seems to have inherited the Jyuubi's blood, not its flesh. Having an Uzumaki blood would enable him to create those chakra chains that sealed the Jyuubi, just as having the Sharingan/Rinnegan to control him. Uzumaki are also the ones to be masters of sealing, so they HAVE to have close blood ties with Hagoromo, they have the same ex-machina sealing powers. It seems to me that Hagoromo was the one to seize and control the Jyuubi, while his brother might have been the one to actually do the damaging. And their sons in turn would actually form the main 4 clans each: Uchiwa (Indra), Uzumaki (Asura), Hyuuga (???) and Senju (???). But I now am thinking that the two latter aren't actually Hagoromo's children, but his nephews (Asura and Indra's cousins).

    If we were to consider an even split of power between Kaguya's two sons, it would have to go like that. Hagoromo really needs the already confirmed Sharingan, and we know his son had Naruto's blood. Each brother would have 2 kids, being one war-driven and the other a pacifist. Hyuugas and Uzumakis are pacifists, seems to me that the Senju and Uchiwas are the bad blood of their generation, both older brothers, even though Uzumaki and Senju are body-oriented, and that Hyuuga and Uchiwa are eye/mind oriented. Except Hagoromo's children would be the a peaceful body (Uzumaki) with a warrying mind (Uchiwa), while his brother's children would be a peaceful mind (Hyuuga) with a warrying body (Senju). THAT's what I think seems likely to have happened concerning blood inheritage.

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