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Thread: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    This is a wild mass guessing but I am theorizing the Hashirama is not the actual source of the Mokuton.

    What gave me this idea is the fact Ashura, his probable previous life did not display any powers related to the Mokuton and the fact that Ashura was supposed to be inferior to Indra at the start but Hashirama was somehow stronger than Madara ever since they were kids.

    My theory is that Hashirama wasn't born with the Mokuton but actually had cells implanted from Kaguya Ootsutsuki in his body.

    Kaguya is the true and only source of the Mokuton, it is a manifestation of the god tree inside her which she consumed with the Shinju's fruit.

    Spoiler show
    Captain Mashima and Admiral Kishimoto give your ships one big fat F*** YOU ALL!

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    I'll repeat one last time, when you build your theory on fanfiction, it's not a theory, it should be built on facts, you can start from " facts or principles " to develop your vision about a certain subject.

    It has been stated as fact that the only Mokuton user is Hashirama (Yamato being an experiment), not his brother, nor his granddaughter, not even his father was known about it (or Kishi didn't specify it anyway), only Hashirama. So until Kishimoto says Kaguya can use Mokuton, then she can't, end of the story.

    This may sound harsh, but please, don't make people read stuff that have no basis at all, at least be consistent and logical and take into account manga facts before writing your own theories

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    I found you idea interesting. I am curious myself how he god Mokton. The damn thing is just to strong to be a random "lucky" mutation...

    @Zehahaha

    If you don't like reading something then don't read it. Personally I found it interesting. He is not disregarding any facts. In the area he is addressing we have no evidence or facts for him to contradict(well aside for "its a random mutation" thing). He just throwing his personal opinion on how something happened. This board are meant for this type of stuff. Oh and, even if this is not based on facts its logical.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm telling you to not disregard facts and makes pure fanfiction mind you, completely different
    Because there's not a single proof for your theory, nothing to makes it even believable at all with all due respect, and I see a lot of stuff like that in this section

    I enjoy reading theories, but if they're built on facts and are logical, I can't or many people won't discuss fanfictions because... It's fanfictions, there's no discussion when it comes to that at all
    I am not disregarding facts, I called beforehand that this is a wild guess so that people are aware that solid evidence is still lacking.

    However, this is not fanfiction either, fanfiction is when you outright make up a story fully aware that it does not fit into the plot and that it was purely tailored to your own devices against canonical evidence.

    A theory is when you pick up the current events of the manga and try to guess how they would explain a series of inconsistences that are yet to be answered.

    A theory differs from fan fiction in that it doesn't contradicts canon and instead works based on it to offer a possible scenario to unfold in the manga.

    Granted, it's a crack theory which still needs much evidence to support itself but so far there haven't been contradictions that make it invalid.

    If you want to dig evidence, I can only offer partial affirmations such as that, since the Juubi is the source of the Mokuton as the plant Bijuu, then Kaguya consuming it's power could have likely granted her the ability to create plant matter and absorb chakra with it.

    Other partial affimation could be that, since Tsunade trained in the Shikkotsu Forest and she is a Senju, there is likely a strong connection between the Senju clan and the Shikkotsu Forest which would increase the possibility of a scenario, under the hypothesis that Kaguya was at the heart of that forest, that a Senju such as Hashirama's mother could meet with the princess and receive the Mokuton from her.

    The purpose of a theory is to offer a viable explanation, it is the hard test of reality which will provide answear wheter such theory is valid or not.

    The purpose of fanfiction is to take a setting, change it to your convenience and write your own story taking place in parallel to canon.

    So please, avoid denouncing theories as fanfiction and telling people not to post them because that's not just mistaken but also pontentially offensive.
    Last edited by 1337 haxor; March 31, 2014 at 12:53 PM.
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    And we're focusing on the theory rather than the right of individuals to post said theories. That said, to the theory.

    The premise of the theory requires a substantial logical leap of sorts. However, if someone's willing and able to make it, what follows is a rather coherent narrative, obviously it contains lots of twists and turns, and is somewhat convoluted out of sheer necessity to maintain the theory and attempt to keep consistent with the manga, but it was rather entertaining. I'm going to say that the theory in its entirety is very unlikely to be the case, considering the multitude of potential scenarios that could be attempted to explain things, but it is a possibility that Hashirama's Mokuton has some relation to the God Tree, and/or Kaguya. Mokuton has always been rather annoying because, for whatever reason, Hashirama is the only who has been supposedly capable of its use. It's also possible the Kaguya has some other role to play. And considering recent revelations, Kishi hasn't shown any issue with introducing random characters or random plot devices near what is presumably the conclusion of the manga. I'd say the greater thoughts on Mokuton and Kaguya might come into play, although the more specific points are likely going to remain fantasy, and at the moment the means to support the end.
    Last edited by Impossibility; March 31, 2014 at 01:19 PM.

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    It has been stated as fact that the only Mokuton user is Hashirama (Yamato being an experiment), not his brother, nor his granddaughter, not even his father was known about it (or Kishi didn't specify it anyway), only Hashirama. So until Kishimoto says Kaguya can use Mokuton, then she can't, end of the story.
    That was stated quite a long time ago, back when Kishi clearly hadn't thought everything up. The fact that it's a bloodline, and the fact that others can gain it by genetics, mean that others could possibly have had it. The fact that it plus the Sharingan equal the Rikudou Sennin's power make it even more likely. We were told with Haku that bloodline limits can skip generations, and both Kimimaro and Itachi showed us that one member of a clan can have a bloodline limit far stronger then the other members. Now given we only know information about a few of his fellow family, and even that information has gaps in it, it's fully possible that there were others with Mokuton and Hashirama is just the most famous one, like how Madara was the most famous EMS user despite their being others from back then.

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    If I'm right, mokuton is just Hashirama's personal manifestation of Ashura's power, to create 'life'. And if that's true, hopefully it'll take a radically different shape when used by Naruto since he doesn't use water/earth.

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Ashura is not Hashirama's power nor the sorce of his power!Hashiarama is simply an reincarnation of Ashuras ideals ,will and character! Its not like that Hashirama is strong only cuz of that!
    "You dare make threats in front of me!?"

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Hashirama's power is related to the God tree, I am almost certain of that. However, the theory about Kaguya seems far fetched. even then I won't say that the theory is wrong. it may very well be possible. If Kabuto can get his hands on Madara's cell, then may be some group had been saving Kaguya's cell as well for centuries. But, saying that, I think the story won't try to explain Hashirama's power further.

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    It has been stated as fact that the only Mokuton user is Hashirama (Yamato being an experiment), not his brother, nor his granddaughter, not even his father was known about it (or Kishi didn't specify it anyway), only Hashirama. So until Kishimoto says Kaguya can use Mokuton, then she can't, end of the story.
    It had been stated in the first and second databook that Itachi was a ciminial.

    If I had made a theory in 2008 that Itachi is not actually a criminal, and made it consistent with facts so far provided by Kishimoto, then according to your superior manga epistemology, my theory would have been made up fanfic nonsense because Kishimoto had not yet retracted his claim that Itachi was a criminal.

    I hereby prove that your argument sucks.

    Not liking a theory doesn't warrant you making up even more stupid epistemology principles for manga. You don't have to pretend your not liking this theory is based on some awesome logical principle. Just state you don't like it and move on. I don't really like this theory/fanfic either, but it still qualifies because it is more consistent with facts than it is not.
    Last edited by Xrayz0r; April 06, 2014 at 08:21 AM.

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    It had been stated in the first and second databook that Itachi was a ciminial.

    If I had made a theory in 2008 that Itachi is not actually a criminal, and made it consistent with facts so far provided by Kishimoto, then according to your superior manga epistemology, my theory would have been made up fanfic nonsense because Kishimoto had not yet retracted his claim that Itachi was a criminal.

    I hereby prove that your argument sucks.

    Not liking a theory doesn't warrant you making up even more stupid epistemology principles for manga. You don't have to pretend your not liking this theory is based on some awesome logical principle. Just state you don't like it and move on. I don't really like this theory/fanfic either, but it still qualifies because it is more consistent with facts than it is not.
    Except I didn't even mention a databook and yet you did... Logical fallacy in its finest, good job

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Except I didn't even mention a databook and yet you did... Logical fallacy in its finest, good job


    He's trying to point out that facts can change. Just because a mana character said something doesn't make it correct.

    The people who said that Hashirama was the only person to know Mokuton wouldn't have known about Kaguya. The only person who could actually tell us would be Hagoromo.

    As far-fetched as this theory may seem until someone with knowledge of Kaguya says she couldn't use Mokuton then it can't be disproved.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonballN View Post


    He's trying to point out that facts can change. Just because a mana character said something doesn't make it correct.

    The people who said that Hashirama was the only person to know Mokuton wouldn't have known about Kaguya. The only person who could actually tell us would be Hagoromo.

    As far-fetched as this theory may seem until someone with knowledge of Kaguya says she couldn't use Mokuton then it can't be disproved.
    When you make claims, you gotta at least prove them or have hints, the problem you have none, Hagoromo said his mother had Byakugan and Sharingan, I don't think a cool ability like Mokuton would be forgotten by him if she does have it

    As this is probably time we'll ever hear anything about her judging from the story, we're at the final acts of the manga, we nearly know anything about the Naruto world except few details about Madara at this point

    So does it make me stupid or a troll for pointing out you have nothing to prove your points with ? Well, if it makes you feel good, then yes feel free to call me so, and if it does make you happy, you can post memes as much as you want, but still you can't prove your point while I can

    Cya

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    The issue with that idea is that for the most part people seem to be unaware of the sage and his sons. For most people the sage and everything about him is a myth... Even now madara only knew about that because of the stones left by the rikudo. So... who would know about her and implant her cells on hashirama? Wouldn't hashirama have her doujutsu if such a thing happened? Mokuton is without a doubt special even within the descendants of the rikudo but I doubt things went like that for him.

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    Hashirama's power is related to the God tree, I am almost certain of that. However, the theory about Kaguya seems far fetched. even then I won't say that the theory is wrong. it may very well be possible. If Kabuto can get his hands on Madara's cell, then may be some group had been saving Kaguya's cell as well for centuries. But, saying that, I think the story won't try to explain Hashirama's power further.
    My thoughts exactly, his Wood release is extremely similar to the power of the God tree. Hashirama can create wooden dragons just like the God tree and those said wooden dragons created by Hashirama can absorb chakra, which is a unique trait of the God tree itself so yeah, in the end probably Wood release was derived from the power of the god tree and furthermore Hashirama's cells may be used to strengthen the bond with the Juubi, aka the God tree.

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