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Thread: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Except I didn't even mention a databook and yet you did... Logical fallacy in its finest, good job
    This is a big facepalm indeed. Trust me when I say you haven't grasped the point. When people start wondering whether you're trolling when you're not, you're in trouble. I suggest you read it as many times as necessary, because the original point is fine as it is. I'm not going to clarify.

  2. #17
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    This is a big facepalm indeed. Trust me when I say you haven't grasped the point. When people start wondering whether you're trolling when you're not, you're in trouble. I suggest you read it as many times as necessary, because the original point is fine as it is. I'm not going to clarify.
    I get your point, except as I said, I didn't mention the stupid Databook because I don't consider that as a credible source, the manga comes first, and so far nothing changed about the fact that Hashirama is the only Mokuton user " naturally "

    Will it change ? Who knows, but so far it is still true

    Giving me the databook argument here is really funny, and I suggest you read carefully this post too

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    I get your point, except as I said, I didn't mention the stupid Databook because I don't consider that as a credible source, the manga comes first, and so far nothing changed about the fact that Hashirama is the only Mokuton user " naturally "

    Will it change ? Who knows, but so far it is still true

    Giving me the databook argument here is really funny, and I suggest you read carefully this post too
    Pot, Kettle, Black.

    You've used databook arguments yourself to try and disprove someone's theory.

    He was just pointing out that Kishi can change facts as the story progresses.

    Not only that but (as already pointed out) the characters who said that Hashirama was the only one who could use Mokuton couldn't have possibly known anything about Kaguya. Until someone who knows something about her (which is likely only Hagoromo or Madara at this point) says that she couldn't use Mokuton then you cannot disprove it.

    Remember that characters are not perfect and not everything they say is 100% fact. Characters can be mistaken, misinformed, uninformed, presumptive or just lying.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    I did mention the databook when it comes to Orochimaru's age, but never when in Mokuton's case
    You seems to forget something, when characters make a statement, it's also the author who's speaking, it's the author who makes them say whatever he wants according to his plot

    And so far, nothing disproves the fact that Hashirama is the only Mokuton user, and that came from the mouth of many characters, not just one

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    I did mention the databook when it comes to Orochimaru's age, but never when in Mokuton's case
    You seems to forget something, when characters make a statement, it's also the author who's speaking, it's the author who makes them say whatever he wants according to his plot

    And so far, nothing disproves the fact that Hashirama is the only Mokuton user, and that came from the mouth of many characters, not just one
    Wow just wow.

    Kishi can make them say what he wants but if he's a good author then each character has to have a set of rules. What they say and what they know is limited by who they are, what they've seen/read, who they've met and what they've been told. For example is Konohamaru started telling everyone about Kaguya and her past we'd be like WTF how does he possibly know that.

    It's the same as characters saying that Hashi is the only one to use Mokuton. None of them (and i mean NONE of them) could have in anyway possibly known about Kaguya. Most of the characters in the manga have knowledge as far back as the first Kage's and even then their knowledge will be limited and mainly just important feats which have been inflated into legends over time.

    Yes nothing disproves that Hashirama was the only one who could use Mokuton but nothing proves it either. That is why this is a THEORY and not FACT. The characters who made that statement are not proof because they are limited by their knowledge of events prior to Hashirama. (I hate repeating myself)

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    I did mention the databook when it comes to Orochimaru's age, but never when in Mokuton's case
    You seems to forget something, when characters make a statement, it's also the author who's speaking, it's the author who makes them say whatever he wants according to his plot

    And so far, nothing disproves the fact that Hashirama is the only Mokuton user, and that came from the mouth of many characters, not just one
    Exactly. I don't see how you didn't get the example with Itachi. Kishi used many characters to build up the hype for Itachi's criminal life so that he could pull his twist later on. Databook or not, you'd be burned at the stake for claiming Itachi is a full good guy back then, but look at the present. Mokuton is worth speculating about. I agree that you just don't seem to understand what it means to not like somebody else's idea for no real reason. It happens but you don't need to mask it with claims about what is precise canon and what isn't.

    Characters claiming that Hashirama is the absolute, for cereal, ONLY mokuton user in the history of ever is suspect at the very least. It's worth trying to figure out why, but it's pretty hard to do that when every other post is a guy going NU UH!! in a slightly different way.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    Exactly. I don't see how you didn't get the example with Itachi. Kishi used many characters to build up the hype for Itachi's criminal life so that he could pull his twist later on. Databook or not, you'd be burned at the stake for claiming Itachi is a full good guy back then, but look at the present. Mokuton is worth speculating about. I agree that you just don't seem to understand what it means to not like somebody else's idea for no real reason. It happens but you don't need to mask it with claims about what is precise canon and what isn't.

    Characters claiming that Hashirama is the absolute, for cereal, ONLY mokuton user in the history of ever is suspect at the very least. It's worth trying to figure out why, but it's pretty hard to do that when every other post is a guy going NU UH!! in a slightly different way.
    But the problem is that he is, I get what you're saying, but the thing is that he's the only one and that won't change anytime soon judging from the flow of the story

    Why I don't take databooks in some cases seriously is that I believe the manga comes first, but getting infos like the age of characters from the databook is good because such intel has no real incidence on the story or doesn't contradict at all to be more precise

    And the guy who freaking knew about Kaguya didn't even mention she can use it for god sake, he said Byakugan + Sharingan + Strong as fuck, and I bet that's the last time we're gonna hear about her anyway

    I hate the whole " There's nothing to disprove my theory " while there's nothing to prove it or even hints, his theory lacks them all, that's pure fanfiction at this point, and that's my problem with it, it's all good to make theories, but if there's nothing not even a single solid starting point, why even bother ?

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    This thread whilst interesting is almost pointless. Why? Well one could argue that everything originated from Kaguya and the Tree. Kaguya ate the fruit which led to her sons having all these powers and then Ninjitsu spread everywhere (short version of course).

    Besides that, I think Mokuton came from Ashura. We have already seen how trees responded to Naruto when he got the Kyuubi chakra. It is not a stretch to believe that Ashura had the Mokuton. Besides we have seen evidence that he was a Jin of some sort.

    I may be wrong but my money is on Ashura! However as per my opening gambit, everything originated from that rabbit lady and fruit! Maybe I am sitting on the fence a little but in reality without Kaguya and that fruit you don't have any SoSP!
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Quote Originally Posted by samsiufan View Post
    This thread whilst interesting is almost pointless. Why? Well one could argue that everything originated from Kaguya and the Tree. Kaguya ate the fruit which led to her sons having all these powers and then Ninjitsu spread everywhere (short version of course).

    Besides that, I think Mokuton came from Ashura. We have already seen how trees responded to Naruto when he got the Kyuubi chakra. It is not a stretch to believe that Ashura had the Mokuton. Besides we have seen evidence that he was a Jin of some sort.

    I may be wrong but my money is on Ashura! However as per my opening gambit, everything originated from that rabbit lady and fruit! Maybe I am sitting on the fence a little but in reality without Kaguya and that fruit you don't have any SoSP!
    Everything originated from the tree to be honest, at least Chakra originated from there to begin with

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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Kishi already left the backdoor open when Naruto's nine-tailed chakra cloak caused Tenzo's Mokuton to sprout new leaves and Zetsu to become a tree. An argument can be made that any descendant proficient enough in the manipulation of biju chakra can attain Mokuton as it seems to have granted Naruto a variety of jutsu previous known only to those with kekkei genkai.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    I don't think anyone with sufficient chakra control over the biju can use mokuton to be honest. Kurama could influence mokuton although that was not attributed to a mokuton ability in itself but rather the mokuton reacting to life energy or something of the sort. I do think what we saw hints at kumara's true nature though. Each biju seems to have a specific attribute so far. Shukaku has magnet release and wind, goku has lava release, matatabi could use fireballs so maybe he has some relation to fire.... Saiken seems to have poison and slime... There are a few unknowns but ultimately it is not that of a stretch that each biju is meant to have a special quality regarding its chakra. Kurama does not have an element so far but if we consider he might be something with an affinity to life force or life itself it gives him a special significance as a biju. Naruto having chakra from all biju right now would simply be taking advantage of those qualities and eventually acquire a power similar to the jubi....

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    I hate the whole " There's nothing to disprove my theory " while there's nothing to prove it or even hints, his theory lacks them all, that's pure fanfiction at this point, and that's my problem with it, it's all good to make theories, but if there's nothing not even a single solid starting point, why even bother ?
    Look, there are hints about it because the Mokuton is definitely a KKG of the Juubi and we got manga evidence showing that Kaguya is somehow influencing things from the shadows (she flat out told Madara to absorb the tree) from a long time.

    I already told you that dismissing a theory as fanfiction when it doesn't contradict canonical evidence is wrong. Fanfiction is when people make a plot of their own contradictory to the manga, not when they research manga events and try to work the logic behind them.

    What any theory needs to be confirmed or denied is hard evidence.

    Hard evidence confirming this theory can still come as Kaguya is increasingly taking the spotlight and an explanation from her part is expected before the series is over.

    Hard evidence denying this theory would be the series ending with Kaguya flat out denying any involvement with the Mokuton or the explanation simply not manifesting before the series comes to a conclusion.

    The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, meaning that this theory cannot be confirmed by lack of evidence against it nor it can be discarded while surfacing evidence can still prove it right.
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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Ric Flair's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    I also believe Hashiramaʻs power with mokuton stem from the God Tree and also Madaraʻs sharingan from the same source albiet from the bloomed "eye" of the tree. Two powers of the same source the two of them were just the most in tune with their reincarnated halves

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ric Flair View Post
    I also believe Hashiramaʻs power with mokuton stem from the God Tree and also Madaraʻs sharingan from the same source albiet from the bloomed "eye" of the tree. Two powers of the same source the two of them were just the most in tune with their reincarnated halves
    That's a given but the big question here is why nobody has heard of a previous Wood user since Hashirama?

    Ashura Ootsutsuki lacked Wood release and even Hagoromo lacked it, the only person who could possibly have had the ability before Hashirama now was Kaguya and why did such ability resurfaced only in him opens much room for speculation.

    Given that Kaguya was revealed to be playing behind Madara, it wouldn't be impossible for her to have had a hand in awakening the ability in Hashirama.
    Captain Mashima and Admiral Kishimoto give your ships one big fat F*** YOU ALL!

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    Reviewer 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member narutotheory's Avatar
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    Re: WMG: The true origin of the Mokuton is not Hashirama, beware of the future! <3

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think anyone with sufficient chakra control over the biju can use mokuton to be honest. Kurama could influence mokuton although that was not attributed to a mokuton ability in itself but rather the mokuton reacting to life energy or something of the sort. I do think what we saw hints at kumara's true nature though. Each biju seems to have a specific attribute so far. Shukaku has magnet release and wind, goku has lava release, matatabi could use fireballs so maybe he has some relation to fire.... Saiken seems to have poison and slime... There are a few unknowns but ultimately it is not that of a stretch that each biju is meant to have a special quality regarding its chakra. Kurama does not have an element so far but if we consider he might be something with an affinity to life force or life itself it gives him a special significance as a biju. Naruto having chakra from all biju right now would simply be taking advantage of those qualities and eventually acquire a power similar to the jubi....
    Honestly being the Juubi Jinchuuriki is a weakness to me. Naruto has all the Bijuu separate inside him...which allows for multiple possibilities. Plus, you can speak and reason with each and every bijuu. Whereas you cannot reason with the monster that is the Juubi.

    Hey Juubi, can I borrow some chakra?

    GUAUAUHA----ARUUURRRRRRR!!!! GUARAREHHGAEAPAWMRPA!!!

    What?

    ---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------

    There has also been this theory going around that Wood Release originated from the Juubi itself....if this is true then Naruto should eventually be able to use it soon...ergo maybe Kurama's affinity is actually wood release and we don't know it yet.

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