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Thread: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Madara might be the antagonist, as what he wants goes against what the main characters want, but I don't think he is evil.

    The way I see it, Madara was traumatized by his childhood and the death of his brother, and wants the same thing that Hashirama and a lot of the characters have always wanted - to end warfare in the world.

    The Sage basically said, in his conversation with Naruto, that chakra was initially brought in a time of endless warfare and with the hope of bringing the peoples together, but that instead, it backfired and created even more warfare. This is exactly what Madara has been saying all along.

    Everyone else thinks that Madara's solution is too 'drastic', but what if he was right? What if there can really be no peace? I mean, sure, once Madara is defeated, everyone will be happy and all the nations will be unified and there won't be any more warfare... but for how long? What tells them that, in 200 years from now, people won't find another reason to start the fighting again?

    I think Naruto is selfish... all he cares about, like he said himself, is his friends. Also, he claims that Madara is wrong, yet has no alternative solution to propose. Madara has lived for a lot longer and seen a lot more things than all the other characters in the story... if there was another way to end war, don't you think he would have come up with it already?

    Even the Sage himself said that trying to stop Madara might be selfish, because even him has no solution. So what makes you guys think that a 16 year old boy with low intelligence could come up with a better solution than Madara's? He can't. Madara is right, the others are just selfish and not seeing the truth, which is, just like Madara said, that as long as people are living freely, there can't be no peace.
    Last edited by dustofoblivion; April 30, 2014 at 12:53 AM.

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Well...
    There`s simple thing. Madara tryes to change the world by forcing others to change.
    He claimed to creat new world without chakra. It means no shinobi. Every shinobi is very chakra-dependant. Taking away chakra from one means making shinobi dead literally. And one more thing.
    Even if removing chakra will not kill everyone it won`t stop wars. We people don`t have chakra but there`s no peace on the Earth. People always want something, there`re always superior people and inferior ones, ones gifted and ones ungifted, ones poor and ones rich. There`s always a different, chakra is just one of things making war a little bit different, not the real reason of war.
    The real reason is in minds, not in power. And the first thing Madara really needs in order to bring peace into the world is his mindset. But he won`t. He sticks to ideae of forsing everybody else to change theirs.
    Naruto on other hand made everybody believe in existance of peace.
    "If such thing as peace exists, I`ll find it"


    Sage created Ninsho, not ninjitsu. Ninjutsu seems to be created by Indra.

    Quote Quote:
    Naruto is selfish... all he cares about, like he said himself, is his friends.
    his friends are all the shinobi including Obito... left for Madara himself. Madara made the whole shinobi-world his enemy and it`s his own fault.
    Quote Quote:
    Madara has lived for a lot longer and seen a lot more things than all the other characters in the story... if there was another way to end war, don't you think he would have come up with it already?
    He lived for revenge only. He`s still naive child blaming whole world for his brother`s death.
    As Tobirama said Uchihas have very strong addictive love. He still on that battlefield where his brother dead making his revenge for the world. That`s how I see him evil.
    He didn`t seek for real peacee at all, that`s why he didn`t find it. Naruto`s going to find it.
    If you belive in Light - It is becose of obsecurity
    If you belive in joy - It is becose of sadness
    And if you belive in God - It is becose of the Devil.
    (c)Enigma, The rivers of belief (the returning silence)

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    No , Naruto friends are limited ...
    you can say all the world are his friend , they are on his side for short period of time ....

    Hogomoro failed , Ashura failed , Hashirama failed and Naruto will fail to achieve peace ( except by super idiotic way of Shonen manga ) because conflict is in humans nature ...
    that why after too many years of watching people , Hogomoro decides to accept his foolishness and try to correct his decision by relying Indra/Sasuke as well because they don't have ( or doesn't have ) foolish believe in humans and they believe in ORDER to keep thing in watch ....

    tell me , don't you lock your house door when you go out !? do you relies on the lock on the door for your safety or you just let open the door and believe in humans !?

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Quote Quote:
    tell me , don't you lock your house door when you go out !? do you relies on the lock on the door for your safety or you just let open the door and believe in humans !?
    I`m lock door hope for neibors to call a police if something`ll be wrong with it. But I heard about places where you can leave home without need for lock. The Trust exists.

    Quote Quote:
    No , Naruto friends are limited ...
    you can say all the world are his friend , they are on his side for short period of time ...
    For his reasoning every shinobi is his friend. Friend is one I want to protect so everyone is my friend - that`s the logic.


    have something like 1 more hour before I`ll have to go to work
    If you belive in Light - It is becose of obsecurity
    If you belive in joy - It is becose of sadness
    And if you belive in God - It is becose of the Devil.
    (c)Enigma, The rivers of belief (the returning silence)

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustofoblivion View Post
    Madara might be the antagonist, as what he wants goes against what the main characters want, but I don't think he is evil.

    The way I see it, Madara was traumatized by his childhood and the death of his brother, and wants the same thing that Hashirama and a lot of the characters have always wanted - to end warfare in the world.

    The Sage basically said, in his conversation with Naruto, that chakra was initially brought in a time of endless warfare and with the hope of bringing the peoples together, but that instead, it backfired and created even more warfare. This is exactly what Madara has been saying all along.

    Everyone else thinks that Madara's solution is too 'drastic', but what if he was right? What if there can really be no peace? I mean, sure, once Madara is defeated, everyone will be happy and all the nations will be unified and there won't be any more warfare... but for how long? What tells them that, in 200 years from now, people won't find another reason to start the fighting again?

    I think Naruto is selfish... all he cares about, like he said himself, is his friends. Also, he claims that Madara is wrong, yet has no alternative solution to propose. Madara has lived for a lot longer and seen a lot more things than all the other characters in the story... if there was another way to end war, don't you think he would have come up with it already?

    Even the Sage himself said that trying to stop Madara might be himself, because even him has no solution. So what makes you guys think that a 16 year old boy with low intelligence could come up with a better solution than Madara's? He can't. Madara is right, the others are just selfish and not seeing the truth, which is, just like Madara said, that as long as people are living freely, there can't be no peace.
    There could be that only a difference of point of views occurs but here's more than that.

    He wants it, but his means to get it aren't justifiable.

    Yes, but why did it backfire? Because of Indra, because of his dogmatic rule of power.

    He wasn't right. He simply gave up, in a manner of speaking. Peace can be brought with mutual understanding of one another which can be a difficult thing but Madara took "an easy way out" by forcing everybody into something that's not real.

    Caring for your friends means caring for people and your nation. The alternative solution is the way he acts. That sounds ironic because Naruto lived 3-4 times less than Madara and he found a way sooner without giving up.

    It's not about the solution, it's about the interaction with people. Naruto united the whole world throughout this war whereas Madara brought the whole world against him. Madara's way is the way of tyranny which possibly can't be a right solution in terms of peace and freedom. There can't be peace as long as there's no one to suck up the hatred. But Naruto appeared.

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Incredibly stupid, yes.
    Incredibly misguided, yes.
    Incredibly shortsighted, yes.
    Incredibly egoistic, yes.

    Evil? In most literal sense? Lolno. Not even close.

    Four accurate descriptions of Madara:

    1) Madara is a spoiled child in a sandbox.

    2) If you would have two cents for each half of Madara's brain, you'd have four cents in total.

    3) Madara is like a monkey with a hand grenade; you never know where and when the bastard is gonna throw it.

    4) If Madara and Hashirama would've played chess, and the latter wins three times in a row, the aforementioned manchild will then throw a tantrum, knock over the chess pieces, crap on the board, and act like he has won.
    Last edited by IChallengeYou!; April 08, 2014 at 02:09 AM.

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    His ideals on what "peace" is are an example of an advanced stage of cognitive development known as self actualization

    in which someones beliefs and sense of right and wrong supersede and sub-plant what society views as right and wrong

    in other words
    Madara may view what he is doing is right and whats best for everyone

    but hitler also thought what he was doing was right and what was best for everyone, and he was definitely evil

    so just because someone believes what they are doing is the best for everyone, that does not mean its the best for everyone

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Madara seems to be evil primarily because he's willin to hurt and kill anyone who gets in his way. Going after Hashirama is evil, given the kind of person Hashirama is and what he stands for. Didn't Madara also want to destroy Konoha, or was that just Tobi's own desire and not really Madara? Sasuke wouldn't necessarily be considered evil because he was molded and influenced by people like Itachi, Orochimaru, and Tobi, but even then he showed that he did care for others until he fought Danzou.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Madara isn't necessary evil but he is incredibly misguided and going about things a horrible way

    None of Narutos villains were necessarily evil at heart but did commit some evil deeds

    I will say though I did think Sasuke was going to to turn evil at heart after the whole danzou thing


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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustofoblivion View Post
    Even the Sage himself said that trying to stop Madara might be himself, because even him has no solution. So what makes you guys think that a 16 year old boy with low intelligence could come up with a better solution than Madara's?
    He's not supposed to find the answer by thinking. He's supposed to know the answer by instinct. Instead of lecturing people, which is what intelligent people do, he shows the answer rather than explaining it.

    Jesus, if he ever existed, might have been a total dumbass (in fact he comes across as one). He recycled a moral rule that others came up with ages before him. Any idiot can come up with the golden rule. The difference is, he (as the myth says) actually showed the rule through his actions rather than arguing for it, which has a much greater force of persuasion on most people. More people put their faith in Jesus than in Socrates, and yet Socrates is the intelligent one.

    Ever since the late 90s we decided we're fed up with archetypical one dimensional arch criminals. Almost all movie/book/series criminals since then have been rather complex like Madara. None of them are evil necessarily once you delve into their background. Apparently we like it that way.
    Last edited by Xrayz0r; April 24, 2014 at 04:18 AM.

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Madara seems to be evil primarily because he's willin to hurt and kill anyone who gets in his way. Going after Hashirama is evil, given the kind of person Hashirama is and what he stands for. Didn't Madara also want to destroy Konoha, or was that just Tobi's own desire and not really Madara? Sasuke wouldn't necessarily be considered evil because he was molded and influenced by people like Itachi, Orochimaru, and Tobi, but even then he showed that he did care for others until he fought Danzou.
    tobi's desire to exact revenge upon the uchiha clan was all influence from madara

    madara was mad at his clan because instead of fighting to become the leaders of konoha, they wanted to make peace with the senju

    madara felt like this was an act of betrayal , because to him accepting a lesser role for the uchiha was not an option

    i dont know of any reason obito would hate his clan on his own, madara brainwashed that boy

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    I have never considered Madara to be evil. He's killing Shinobi in a war. How is that any different from what these Nations have done through the years in three great wars? Calling him evil is over-stretching the term.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    Evil? In most literal sense? Lolno. Not even close.

    Four accurate descriptions of Madara:

    1) Madara is a spoiled child in a sandbox.

    2) If you would have two cents for each half of Madara's brain, you'd have four cents in total.

    3) Madara is like a monkey with a hand grenade; you never know where and when the bastard is gonna throw it.

    4) If Madara and Hashirama would've played chess, and the latter wins three times in a row, the aforementioned manchild will then throw a tantrum, knock over the chess pieces, crap on the board, and act like he has won.
    I think this kind of rubbish post is what we need less in any forums.

    If you are not capable of appreciating the substance of the discussion going on, you can at least save others the trouble of reading your shit first day in the morning.

    Now, the issue of whether Madara is a real antagonist is an interesting one. Because I always think what is good and what is evil really depends on where you are coming from. Example: Imagine all people in the Narutoverse as the dinasours in our world. And then imagine that Madara was the one who pulled down the meteor that killed all the dinosaurs. Obviously, from the perspective of the dinosaurs, Madara is the ultimate world destroyer. But perhaps for the mammals that would eventually replace the dinosaurs in the far future, Madara is the ultimate creator. So, in a sense, Madara is both evil and good. It depends on whether the person who judge him is a dinosaur or a mammal.
    Last edited by Ryr; April 24, 2014 at 12:03 AM.

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    I think you need to realize that I can post whatever I choose...I think it's called "freedom of speech"? You DON'T have to read it, just scroll down.

    Besides, with the way the story unfolds, the post is justified and is an accurate description. Unless you can it prove it otherwise, which so far, you haven't.

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    Re: So how exactly is Madara 'evil'?

    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    I think you need to realize that I can post whatever I choose...I think it's called "freedom of speech"? You DON'T have to read it, just scroll down.

    Besides, with the way the story unfolds, the post is justified and is an accurate description. Unless you can it prove it otherwise, which so far, you haven't.
    Freedom of speech means I can post whatever I want with regard to your posts. This thread is a good one, you should not pollute it with nonsense.

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