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Thread: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member KuroKarasu's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    It's 100% a Devil Fruit. Creating theories and thinking out of the box is fine, but Jozu has got to be a DF user.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Australopithecus's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Why isn't this thread closed yet? It's a devil fruit power, clear and simple as the concept of blackening didn't exist yet.

    If anything, this belongs to the Crazy Theories and Predictions thread.
    With all due respect, sir, just because you have absolute certitude in your reasoning doesn't mean the other party's reasoning is verboten. Diamond Joz was not confirmed by the author to have a Devil Fruit, so the discussion about his diamond body must be allowed. No offense, but I find your judgement despotic and bigoted. Thanks for understanding.

    ---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Why isn't this thread closed yet? It's a devil fruit power, clear and simple as the concept of blackening didn't exist yet.

    If anything, this belongs to the Crazy Theories and Predictions thread.

    Don't preface stuff with "no offense" when it's clearly meant as such. Read again, I proposed to move a crazy theory into the crazy theory thread, not that it's not allowed to discuss such a theory.
    No, my intention was not and still is not to offend you but to tell you what I generally think of such approaches. I hope you understand. "Why isn't this thread closed yet" clearly implies the prevention of further discussion on this theory even though there is no good reason for doing so. I apologize though for any unintended discomfort.
    Last edited by Australopithecus; May 11, 2014 at 04:45 PM.

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    I don't know what's all this talk about freezing diamonds. Jozu didn't turned his arm in diamond when he was frozen by Aokiji.

    Otherwise we should be able to see that characteristic polygonal look when he transforms in diamond.

    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

  4. #19
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    During the Davy back fight arc it was shown that one has to be prevented from falling and breaking apart, this is just a confirmation of that fact some arcs later. For plot purposes it doesn't matter and wouldn't have mattered if he had diamond, iron, wax, poison or any other skin changing paramecia fruit. There you have a reasoning: The plot demanded for him to break. The most easy solution is often the best one.
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  5. #20
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Diamond Jozu is a diamond man who ate the diamond devil fruit.

    /thread
    Predictions: Smoker | One Piece
    Why So Serious?

  6. #21
    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
    With all due respect, sir, just because you have absolute certitude in your reasoning doesn't mean the other party's reasoning is verboten. Diamond Joz was not confirmed by the author to have a Devil Fruit, so the discussion about his diamond body must be allowed. No offense, but I find your judgement despotic and bigoted. Thanks for understanding.
    The mechanics of the One Piece world require Jozu's transformation to be a devil fruit ability. Otherwise, his ability would have to be due to some as yet unnamed "third power", neither haki nor devil fruit ability, but generating abilities identical to devil fruit. Oda has a habit of regularly having new characters unambiguously using devil fruit abilities, without confirming the name of the fruit until later. The abilities of most of the Worst Generation still have not been confirmed to be devil fruit. It is left to the readers intelligence to assume that Kid, Bonney, Hawkins, Apoo, Bege, and Urouge's power all are devil fruit ability. Doflamingo was first shown using his ability in chapter 234. It was not confirmed as a devil fruit ability, and named, until chapter 724, almost 500 chapters later. Jozu's power can not be confirmed as a devil fruit with "absolute certainty", but common sense dictates that it can be confirmed with near absolute certainty. Unless Oda plans on introducing a new ability identical to a devil fruit ability, or armament haki that looks different from everyone else's armament haki, Jozu's ability comes from a devil fruit.

    ---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xitalisk View Post
    Boring....... are you a fan of Bleach lol but seriously why not haki his power doesn't seem like a DF its defiantly not Logia and it doesn't fully fit Paramecia either
    How does is it definitely not a logia?! It looks identical to every other logia transformation since logia fruit was first introduced in chapter 100.

    Quote Quote:
    So Why does it have to be a DF maybe he got the nickname Diamond because of his unusual Haki
    It doesn't have to be a devil fruit because of the nickname. It's a devil fruit because it looks, acts, and is used identically to every other devil fruit ever introduced.

  7. #22
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Why isn't this thread closed yet? It's a devil fruit power, clear and simple as the concept of blackening didn't exist yet.
    It's seriously annoying whenever someone says "why isn't this thread closed yet" or "close this thread" or whatever. You can always report the thread if you don't like it, why hamper discussion?

    There's no proof it's a devil fruit, as far as I recall. It could also be a way of showing just how advanced Jozu's haki is. Saying "blackening wasn't thought of" isn't really an argument, as Oda could have planned to use diamond to show Jozu's mastery over haki.

    I would like to reiterate that I think Jozu's ability is devil fruit's, but the point of this post is to not discount anything (Sabo?) or mention thread closing.

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    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Quote Quote:
    There's no proof it's a devil fruit, as far as I recall.
    There is absolute and total proof. Jozu's diamond power looks, acts, and is used in a manner similar to all other fruit powers. It is not used like, look like, or act like armament haki. Oda frequently introduces obvious fruit abilities without confirming or naming them for hundreds of chapters. He assumes a certain degree of common sense when readers are confronted by the obvious. Use Doflamingo for reference. Obvious fruit ability, not confirmed for 500 chapters.

    Quote Quote:
    It could also be a way of showing just how advanced Jozu's haki is. Saying "blackening wasn't thought of" isn't really an argument, as Oda could have planned to use diamond to show Jozu's mastery over haki.
    It is a valid argument, and completely damning. Claiming Oda planned Jozu's diamonds to represent haki require major breakdowns in basic logic, reason, story cohesion, and even linear flow. The argument would be that Oda visually depicted exceptional use of an ability without ever depicting how a normal user would look. The exceptional nature of Jozu's transformation went un-noted by other characters, nor were there any clues that something exceptional was happening that would bear explanation later. Even the savviest reader would be unable to comprehend the plot points surrounding Jozu's transformation, or the possible repercussions. It was treated, at the time, like any other unnamed devil fruit ability. Haki could only be a retroactive explanation for his transformation, and even then could only be based on a non-sequitur. Skin color changes when armament haki is used, armament haki can harden surfaces, diamonds are hard, Jozu transformed into diamonds, therefore Jozu used haki even though the basis for the argument (change in appearance) was not a plot element at the time. Armament haki can be used in concert with devil fruit abilities, as demonstrated here.

    Quote Quote:
    I would like to reiterate that I think Jozu's ability is devil fruit's, but the point of this post is to not discount anything (Sabo?) or mention thread closing.
    Not every argument needs to be acknowledged, not all opinions are valid. I don't understand the Sabo reference. The consensus around fandom was that he did not die, and would eventually return. Only the stubbornest, most clueless readers ever really argued he died. Predicting that an established supporting character will return is a One Piece fan cliche. Fans make predictions about two or three characters per arc. Most are random guesses based on loose plot connections. Skeptics should not be slighted, they usually have plenty of reason to be dubious.

    ---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishaku View Post
    That is, quiet literally, the second-dumbest theory I have ever read. Right after "Zoro has already surpassed Mihawk". Why do I even bother reading threads like this?
    I read them for the lolz.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member TheLuffySmile's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    ._. I'm sorry, even if it's allowed to discuss things like this I really don't see the relevance.

    1st: Why would Jozu be the only person in the OP world with this diamond Haki? Do you seriously believe that his Haki is more powerful and advanced than the Admirals', Whitebeard's, Mihawk's, Shanks'? I doubt it very much.

    2nd: Hardening hadn't even been introduced when the war took place, so what you're suggesting is that Oda came up with a single person's Haki manifesting as diamond whilst the forementioned people didn't display hardening or manifesting Haki of any kind? Preposterous.

    3rd: Jozu's ability fits perfectly into the Paramecia class Devil fruits with Luffy's rubber body, Alvida's slippery body, Daz Bones' steel body, Capone Bege's fortress body, Urouge's muscle transformation body, Baby 5's weapons body, Pica's stone body and Diamante's fluttering body.

    Case closed.
    The three brothers

  11. #25
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    I have to go with this absolutely being a DF. Haki is likely to be able to do a number of things but changing ones body constitution seems to be well within the category of DFs. There is no reason for us to realistically think jozu's diamond abilities are actually haki related.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    How does is it definitely not a logia?! It looks identical to every other logia transformation since logia fruit was first introduced in chapter 100.
    Because the most iconic aspect of Logia is to change the shape of the user body and produce his element. And Jozu didn't do anything like that, in fact if he was a Logia we should have expected the Whitebeard fleet to be covered in diamonds and stuff like that.

    Besides it has been shown that diamons are still valuable in One Piece, and if Jozu was a Logia it would since have lost value due to inflation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishaku View Post
    That is, quiet literally, the second-dumbest theory I have ever read. Right after "Zoro has already surpassed Mihawk". Why do I even bother reading threads like this?
    No, the dumbest theory ever is that Uranus is the Yami-Yami no Mi.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

  13. #27
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Please don't excuse other members of being delusional. That is very rude.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Australopithecus's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    The mechanics of the One Piece world require Jozu's transformation to be a devil fruit ability. Otherwise, his ability would have to be due to some as yet unnamed "third power", neither haki nor devil fruit ability, but generating abilities identical to devil fruit. Oda has a habit of regularly having new characters unambiguously using devil fruit abilities, without confirming the name of the fruit until later. The abilities of most of the Worst Generation still have not been confirmed to be devil fruit. It is left to the readers intelligence to assume that Kid, Bonney, Hawkins, Apoo, Bege, and Urouge's power all are devil fruit ability. Doflamingo was first shown using his ability in chapter 234. It was not confirmed as a devil fruit ability, and named, until chapter 724, almost 500 chapters later. Jozu's power can not be confirmed as a devil fruit with "absolute certainty", but common sense dictates that it can be confirmed with near absolute certainty. Unless Oda plans on introducing a new ability identical to a devil fruit ability, or armament haki that looks different from everyone else's armament haki, Jozu's ability comes from a devil fruit.
    I see...

    Haki can indeed cause transformations. The irrefutable proof of this is Luffy's Red Hawk.
    Spoiler show

    Spoiler show


    Take a close look at the carpal part of his arm. It's white. Hardening makes bodily parts black, yet that part is white. From the brachial part to the antebrachial part of his body(depending on how far his entire arm was stretched, it could also be from the antecubital to the brachial part or just the brachial part of his body alone) the blackness is whitening. It is a clear indication of a fiery transformation.
    When the author redrew it on the 65th volume's cover, he demonstrated a much clearer transformation of his hand.

    If it hadn't been for his Hardening Haki, he wouldn't have been able to pull it off.

    It's not easy to conclude whether it was also due to his DF or not because he has already used Gear 2 with Hardening and attacked with Hawk Rifle, yet no flames gushed out of his arm.
    Spoiler show


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    There is absolute and total proof. Jozu's diamond power looks, acts, and is used in a manner similar to all other fruit powers. It is not used like, look like, or act like armament haki. Oda frequently introduces obvious fruit abilities without confirming or naming them for hundreds of chapters. He assumes a certain degree of common sense when readers are confronted by the obvious. Use Doflamingo for reference. Obvious fruit ability, not confirmed for 500 chapters.


    Spoiler show


    I'm sorry, but I honestly don't consider that a proof. Since when were the three listed characteristics(looks like, acts like, used like) the consensually typical features for being a DF user? Blackbeard's DF is a Logia, yet it is very different from a typical Logia. If the author hadn't confirmed its category, using our common sense, we would have classified it as a Paramecia. Even Ace found it strange to be a Logia.(Bottom left panel)

    Advanced form of Haki had already been introduced prior to its primitive forms.
    Spoiler show

    When Shanks' Conqueror Haki was cracking the ship, it was simple and clear that that was an advanced form of Conqueror Haki. Afterwards, we have kept seeing only primitive forms of Conqueror Haki.

    The manner Joz's diamond was used is very similar to how hardening has been used. Hardening cloaks a part of the body or the body itself entirely, and Joz's diamond was seen to cover partially his body like Hardening Haki.

    When Joz hit Kuzan, his frontal area, which received the impact, wasn't shown. AT that moment Kuzan could have used Hardening Haki(or an advanced form of it) on his buccal area(or whatever frontal area he was hit to) to reduce the damage.




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    Last edited by Australopithecus; May 13, 2014 at 01:36 PM.

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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    Because the most iconic aspect of Logia is to change the shape of the user body and produce his element. And Jozu didn't do anything like that, in fact if he was a Logia we should have expected the Whitebeard fleet to be covered in diamonds and stuff like that.
    He did produce his element. "Diamond" Jozu's body [url=http://www.batoto.net/read/_/17712/one-piece_ch567_by_franky-house/6]transforms into diamonds.[/quote] in the same way Aokiji's skin freezes. He was not shown producing a limitless amount of diamonds, but that does not mean he can not based on only a few panels. He already passes two qualifications for logia; transforming his body into a natural element. I don't know as he has to shoot diamonds from his hands to qualify as a logia. That does not seem like the best way of fighting. His power could realistically be a paramecia. Based on the available information it would be wrong to dismiss either.

    He would be the first paramecia to produce a natural substance. Luffy, Mr. 2, and Mr. 3 use their fruit to transform, but all three transform into man made products, not naturally occurring elements. Rubber, steel, and wax are all processed goods. Naturally occurring rubber is a liquid. Wax is a compound, steel an alloy. It's a fine line, all three use their ability in a logia like manner. But all three have powers based on manufactured goods. All logia transform into natural substances. Diamonds are natural, like sand, smoke, swamp, gas, and magma. Diamond Jozu's ability fits well with logia, even if he never produces a stream of diamonds. His ability could be paramecia, but it would be a bit of an oddity by category standards. A paramecia that allows the user to transform into a natural element would be identical to the description of logia.


    No, the dumbest theory ever is that Uranus is the Yami-Yami no Mi.[/QUOTE]

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member RichardMNixon's Avatar
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    Re: diamond jozu Doesnt Have a Devil Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by xitalisk View Post
    So can Diamonds Freeze?

    Not that I'm aware of! They are the hardest natural substance after all. They were made over a million years ago. Diamonds have survived every type of Climate Change and Catastrophe.
    Hardness only matters if you're trying to cut/scratch something. Hit a diamond with a hammer and it will shatter. Chill it to subzero temperatures and it will likely shatter more easily.

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