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Thread: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Toby_Temple's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Claiming that Bald Ryu did not use techniques is completely false. He obviously used some foot technique to dodge and ki manipulation to use his hands as shield. Even the punch he threw to tank Gyu Bum's punch was obviously the Soul Crushing Strike.

    Just because the techniques were not mentioned does not mean they were not being used.

    But damn, 2 weeks till we find out what happened to them after the explosion!?
    Last edited by Toby_Temple; May 24, 2014 at 04:25 AM.
    NO to KUROSAKI ICHIGO USING a BOW!!!

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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Freid View Post
    Every action manga has its own established combat mechanics that define strength in their own world. Rai vs The Lord works only within the context of Noblesse. Comparing it to any other manga at all is fundamentally flawed.

    I believe the good book tells us: "thou shalt not attempt to support facts in one manga with facts from another, lest ye be found guilty of a fallacy". Exodus Chapter 161 Verse 27. Not my words, bro.

    Baldy had no intention of harming Gyu Bum whatsoever. He only fought to defend and counter while Gyu Bum had every reason to damn near kill him. So it was basically baldy at 55% vs Gyu Bum at 100%, and nobody had the upper hand. I don't have to tell you the kind of ass whooping I’d expect from a baldy at 100%.

    ---------- Post added at 12:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------



    Let's keep things in context. They were only a par because beating the shit out of Gyu Bum would have been counter-productive.
    Again your statement is misleading, when at best the difference in skills is inconclusive. What were Yi Gyu Bum words prior to attacking? It wasn't to kill Bald Ryu, he said take him down. Your portrayal gives the impression that Bald Ryu made no counter attacks, like he was Neo with his eyes intentionally averted countering every Smith attack nonchalantly. That simply is what I see as the argument for stalemate. The Red Star wasn't trying to kill him and he wasn't tanking. Btw, if there skills weren't comparable he wouldn't have had to work so hard to remain unscathed.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Freid's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomaxe View Post
    Again your statement is misleading, when at best the difference in skills is inconclusive. What were Yi Gyu Bum words prior to attacking? It wasn't to kill Bald Ryu, he said take him down. Your portrayal gives the impression that Bald Ryu made no counter attacks, like he was Neo with his eyes intentionally averted countering every Smith attack nonchalantly. That simply is what I see as the argument for stalemate. The Red Star wasn't trying to kill him and he wasn't tanking. Btw, if there skills weren't comparable he wouldn't have had to work so hard to remain unscathed.
    You're arguing semantics. Gyu Bum wasn't pulling any punches and was clearly out for blood. Whether or not baldy died was of no consequence to him. He was fighting to kill or severely maim, and had baldy ended up dead, you can bet your bottom dollar that Gyu Bum wouldn't have been like "oh darn it, and the poor guy didn't even get to speak with the Gaju".

    Baldy wasn't going to just beat up the guy he needed a favor from, but he also wasn't going to let himself get owned by an inferior fighter. So he fought to match Gyu Bum. He dodged every attack he could and countered those he couldn't. We're never going to see something as silly as this:

    Spoiler show


    ---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby_Temple View Post
    Claiming that Bald Ryu did not use techniques is completely false. He obviously used some foot technique to dodge and ki manipulation to use his hands as shield. Even the punch he threw to tank Gyu Bum's punch was obviously the Soul Crushing Strike.

    Just because the techniques were not mentioned does not mean they were not being used.

    But damn, 2 weeks till we find out what happened to them after the explosion!?
    So I guess baldy wasn't at 55% after all.

    He was at 60%.

    Nice catch bro.
    Last edited by Freid; May 24, 2014 at 01:48 PM.
    Predictions: Smoker | One Piece
    Why So Serious?

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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Freid View Post
    We're never going to see something as silly as this:

    Spoiler show
    Why not? It would make everything pretty clear. I'd say it's a fair representation of Jung's efforts pretty much every week; lost cause.

  6. #35
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Freid's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    Why not? It would make everything pretty clear. I'd say it's a fair representation of Jung's efforts pretty much every week; lost cause.
    Because in this manga, punches fucking hurt, regardless of who you are.
    Last edited by Freid; May 24, 2014 at 06:02 PM.
    Predictions: Smoker | One Piece
    Why So Serious?

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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Freid View Post
    Because in this manga, punches fucking hurt, regardless of who you are.
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're not particularly discerning when it comes to jokes or sarcasm. I don't think anyone expects Dragon Ball fights to suddenly pop up. Things aren't so cut and dry in this manhwa. Attempting to arbitrarily decide effort level is a waste of time. In some cases, the difference in class is obvious, in others, take a seat and enjoy the match.

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  10. #37
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Freid's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're not particularly discerning when it comes to jokes or sarcasm.
    Or you're just not very good at making them?

    Seriously though, what some others were claiming is just as ridiculous, so I guess I just started to believe most people here had lost their mind.
    Last edited by Freid; May 24, 2014 at 09:01 PM.
    Predictions: Smoker | One Piece
    Why So Serious?

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  12. #38
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Freid View Post
    You're arguing semantics. Gyu Bum wasn't pulling any punches and was clearly out for blood. Whether or not baldy died was of no consequence to him. He was fighting to kill or severely maim, and had baldy ended up dead, you can bet your bottom dollar that Gyu Bum wouldn't have been like "oh darn it, and the poor guy didn't even get to speak with the Gaju".

    Baldy wasn't going to just beat up the guy he needed a favor from, but he also wasn't going to let himself get owned by an inferior fighter. So he fought to match Gyu Bum. He dodged every attack he could and countered those he couldn't. We're never going to see something as silly as this:

    Spoiler show


    ---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------



    So I guess baldy wasn't at 55% after all.

    He was at 60%.

    Nice catch bro.
    You say my argument is Semantics, yet your the one claiming to know the percentage effort that a character is using in a fight? Can you give me a link to the manhwa scouter store? The only thing I was arguing was from the shown fight, the difference in power is inconclusive. You've based these claims on Ryu being able to avoid damage, but this is what So Jung had to say about defense. http://mngacow.com/The-Breaker-New-Waves/68/6/ By that figure someone just playing strictly defense, even against someone stronger shouldn't be touched. It also must be said, that you can't base attack power from defensive prowness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freid View Post
    Or you're just not very good at making them?

    Seriously though, what some others were claiming is just as ridiculous, so I guess I just started to believe most people here had lost their mind.
    Apparently you had your bias glasses on, because I know where my mind is. You seem to miss the subtlety of the fight sequences. Where you focus on Ryu's evasive maneuvers, you missed his counter strikes which Yi Gyu Bum adeptly avoided and in one case inventively used to set up his Descending thunder strike. http://mngacow.com/The-Breaker-New-Waves/161/6/ later we see Ryu avoiding the Red Star's punch and then using a counter elbow which Yi Gyu Bum avoids, http://mngacow.com/The-Breaker-New-Waves/161/8/ I don't know why your pulling numbers out of your ass and stating them as fact, but there is no evidence to be that confident in your claim.

  13. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Freid's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomaxe View Post
    Apparently you had your bias glasses on
    Apparently you have your reading ones off. In those same scenes you posted, baldy told Gyu Bum to stop attacking. Gee, I wonder what that could mean. Herp. Surely he doesn't mean that he doesn't actually want to fight Gyu Bum. Derp. Nah, that's too obvious. Herp Derp... Don't take things out of context.

    Baldy's attacks were warnings, at best. If he really wanted to hurt Gyu Bum, he would have used some of his named techniques; y'know, like the way Gyu Bum was using his. But alas, neither his Gale Wind Destruction Strike nor his Chaotic Heavens Destruction Strike made an appearance, and he was still able to deal with Gyu Bum's efforts. The difference in power is only inconclusive if you're reading the manga with blinders on.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't know why your pulling numbers out of your ass and stating them as fact, but there is no evidence to be that confident in your claim.
    Ok, baldy was at 65%. That's my final offer. You drive a hard bargain, I'll give you that.
    Predictions: Smoker | One Piece
    Why So Serious?

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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    ^That's just lunacy. I know this idea of half speed is popular in manga, but it isn't reality, no one has a 50, 60, 65% limit switch, and this manhwa has never shown a fighter thinking in those terms. Yet some how you have calibrated character sight. Telling me he hasn't used his big techniques means nothing this was a skirmish not than a fight, yet you can divine the power difference between the 2 characters. I don't think so. Logic is also against you, Yi Gyu Bum is not the only Sun woo there, if he's that superior, incapacitate him and force the weaker members to take you to the Gaju. I'll take blinder off when you show can confirm your gamer reading ability.
    Last edited by Randomaxe; May 25, 2014 at 06:53 PM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member smokeesid's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomaxe View Post
    ^That's just lunacy. I know this idea of half speed is popular in manga, but it isn't reality, no one has a 50, 60, 65% limit switch, and this manhwa has never shown a fighter thinking in those terms. Yet some how you have calibrated character sight. Telling me he hasn't used his big techniques means nothing this was a skirmish not than a fight, yet you can divine the power difference between the 2 characters. I don't think so. Logic is also against you, Yi Gyu Bum is not the only Sun woo there, if he's that superior, incapacitate him and force the weaker members to take you to the Gaju. I'll take blinder off when you show can confirm your gamer reading ability.
    So you are saying that a sparring in between Kwong and Shioon couldn't have been possible before his Overhaul Rebirth because Kwon cannot act slow?

    And why are you so randomly lamenting?
    Some people are born like keys who move this world and exist having no connection to the social hierarchy established by man

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  18. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Freid's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomaxe View Post
    Logic is also against you, Yi Gyu Bum is not the only Sun woo there, if he's that superior, incapacitate him and force the weaker members to take you to the Gaju.
    ...And then risk having to fight all the elders together, one of which is a member of the murim's 10 grand masters?

    Spoiler show


    Baldy has nothing personal against the Sunwoo Clan, so approaching them all guns blazing was unnecessary.
    Predictions: Smoker | One Piece
    Why So Serious?

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  20. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Toby_Temple's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Since it's going to take 3 more weeks till we find out what happen....

    We can't really claim that Gyu Bum is on equal footing with Lone Wolf after this chapter. We should expect him to have the edge since it is quite conclusive that he is a master of the BHET on the level of 9AD(with 9AD edging him thanks to BOT and all 9 arts). Even Gyu Bum was surprised to see how Lone Wolf defended against his attacks.
    NO to KUROSAKI ICHIGO USING a BOW!!!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member bighawke5's Avatar
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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomaxe View Post
    ^That's just lunacy. I know this idea of half speed is popular in manga, but it isn't reality, no one has a 50, 60, 65% limit switch, and this manhwa has never shown a fighter thinking in those terms. Yet some how you have calibrated character sight. Telling me he hasn't used his big techniques means nothing this was a skirmish not than a fight, yet you can divine the power difference between the 2 characters. I don't think so. Logic is also against you, Yi Gyu Bum is not the only Sun woo there, if he's that superior, incapacitate him and force the weaker members to take you to the Gaju. I'll take blinder off when you show can confirm your gamer reading ability.
    Gyu bum wasn't out for a skirmish, he was out for blood!, he was giving his all. I would call 9AD vs Bald ryu a skirmish because never were near serious enough to kill one another and 9AD was attacking because he was annoyed! while Bald ryu was defending.

    This fight on the other hand showed a clear blood hound chasing! lol Gyu bum was hungry for revenge and rightly so. Yet his Full assault resulted in this....A stalemate, from someone not trying to kill him....I dont know how you can say they were equal from this really...

    I'm guessing you think mamun-gi and GMR are equal in skills as well? because their fight was cut short by the author with no side dominating and then mamungi recalled that this is GMR is he was fighting and he knew he knew he was outclassed and stopped. When viewing their fight, no side was given a clear advantage and GMR was not even serious hence why mamun-gi could keep up. basically GMR was just going with the flow until he got pissed or serious enough and I'm sure he THEN would have fucked mamun-gi straight up.

    This is the exact situation.

    In any case we probably won't come to an understanding on this issue but we can at least agree how painful these two/three weeks will be without the breaker...time to brace myself for the withdrawal
    Last edited by bighawke5; May 28, 2014 at 04:48 AM.

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    Re: The Breaker: New Waves 161 Discussions / 162 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Freid View Post
    Apparently you have your reading ones off. In those same scenes you posted, baldy told Gyu Bum to stop attacking. Gee, I wonder what that could mean. Herp. Surely he doesn't mean that he doesn't actually want to fight Gyu Bum. Derp. Nah, that's too obvious. Herp Derp... Don't take things out of context.

    Baldy's attacks were warnings, at best. If he really wanted to hurt Gyu Bum, he would have used some of his named techniques; y'know, like the way Gyu Bum was using his. But alas, neither his Gale Wind Destruction Strike nor his Chaotic Heavens Destruction Strike made an appearance, and he was still able to deal with Gyu Bum's efforts. The difference in power is only inconclusive if you're reading the manga with blinders on.



    Ok, baldy was at 65%. That's my final offer. You drive a hard bargain, I'll give you that.
    In this manhwa when the author wanted to show a clear difference in power or skill, they usually showed the superior character standing there ground, doing either the one finger fist stop or the hand fist stop, here it's evasion only. Think Old Chief fighting depleted GMR, Ghost Doctor v Shioon, and Hyuk So Chun V Iwullmon munji. In the bottom left coner of the first page I posted, So Jung clearly states that defending is 2 or 3 times easier than attacking, but I see you've ignored that. I cited that because, it's what i've experienced and seen in real life. The reason I like this story is, it makes me feel like this world could exsist. All I asserted was in this altercation, there was an argument that Yi Gyu Bum could be on par.

    This will answer some of the other respones. Think, who did lone wolf display all those high level techniques you mentioned on? Shioon a week after his ki center was restored and he was in bot state with limited ability. He was so limited that he stood watching lone Wolf attacks to learn them, and he made no effort to block or evade. Everyone on the roof during, the school was awed by Ryu's strike, yet Ji Gun was able to shake it off and hold him at bay, which allowed Shioon to escape the roof. I know Ji Gun is not Ryu's match, but he's not Gyu Bum's either. What i' ve seen is the more complicated the skill the harder it is to land. You need to soften your oponent up with your superiority with the fundamentals, to set up the big hit. It is rare when you see a fighter land a superman punch or round house kick at the start of a fight; the other fighter has to be a scrub or dazed from another technique.

    I also don't get why, Ryu couldn't subdue him with his skill superiority? Who says he has to hurt Gyu Bum to show him he's stronger. Gyum acknowledged his skill, but it took Dae San requests to get him to halt. This manhwa has spent a great many chapters telling us that the weak acquiesce to the strong, and that master fighters can sense the differences in ability. That didn't happen. It seemed to me that Ryu was given a good deal of skill inflation without having proved it. All we know is, he was the strongest SUC captain, and he stomped someone GMR beat in the tournament and scatter regular clan soldiers. It's hard to take the captains seriously when Shioon was able to defeat Cool Guy twice before his ki center was restored.

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeesid View Post
    So you are saying that a sparring in between Kwong and Shioon couldn't have been possible before his Overhaul Rebirth because Kwon cannot act slow?

    And why are you so randomly lamenting?
    Sparring can take place between anyone. I used to have to spar with my coach because no other kids were my size, and yes i got lumped up. Overtime, I learned how to deal with the differences in strength and skill. The purpose of sparring is to give combatants a real sense of what a battle will feel like. So if Elder Kwon speed blitzs Shioon, its up to him to figure out how to deal with it. Holding back, would slow the adjustment process. I can say that training with someone that much better helped a lot, I never felt overpowered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freid View Post
    ...And then risk having to fight all the elders together, one of which is a member of the murim's 10 grand masters?

    Spoiler show


    Baldy has nothing personal against the Sunwoo Clan, so approaching them all guns blazing was unnecessary.
    This doesn't matter Ryu went to the Clan head quarters that possibility existed no matter what. He was a member of a group who killed an Elder and almost the clan head. Do you think if Ryu had encountered Elder Kwon first, that the Elder wouldn't have wanted to administer some form of retribution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby_Temple View Post
    Since it's going to take 3 more weeks till we find out what happen....

    We can't really claim that Gyu Bum is on equal footing with Lone Wolf after this chapter. We should expect him to have the edge since it is quite conclusive that he is a master of the BHET on the level of 9AD(with 9AD edging him thanks to BOT and all 9 arts). Even Gyu Bum was surprised to see how Lone Wolf defended against his attacks.
    From that encounter and these responses, I don't get the claims of Ryu's clear superiority. Their in manhwa reps don't show a large gap either. Also, Isn't BHET the Ki circulation technique GMR taught Shioon? Ryu is just a master of the schools fighting techniques or he would be able to use bot too.

    Didn't it give you pause when even after that acknowledgement, Gyu bum was still ready to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by bighawke5 View Post
    Gyu bum wasn't out for a skirmish, he was out for blood!, he was giving his all. I would call 9AD vs Bald ryu a skirmish because never were near serious enough to kill one another and 9AD was attacking because he was annoyed! while Bald ryu was defending.

    This fight on the other hand showed a clear blood hound chasing! lol Gyu bum was hungry for revenge and rightly so. Yet his Full assault resulted in this....A stalemate, from someone not trying to kill him....I dont know how you can say they were equal from this really...

    I'm guessing you think mamun-gi and GMR are equal in skills as well? because their fight was cut short by the author with no side dominating and then mamungi recalled that this is GMR is he was fighting and he knew he knew he was outclassed and stopped. When viewing their fight, no side was given a clear advantage and GMR was not even serious hen;ce why mamun-gi could keep up. basically GMR was just going with the flow until he got pissed or serious enough and I'm sure he THEN would have fucked mamun-gi straight up.

    This is the exact situation.

    In any case we probably won't come to an understanding on this issue but we can at least agree how painful these two/three weeks will be without the breaker...time to brace myself for the withdrawal
    I've answered most of this already, but i'll say it again defense is easier than attack and because he can defend doesn't mean Ryu's attacks will be effective either. Out for blood as you say really doesn't matter, but it should have given Ryu plenty of openings to exploit as aggressively attacking usually exposes you to easy counter attacks. Yet, none of his counters hit home. Big attacks against an unhurt fighter will usually fail. When fighters of equivalent skill meet; the winner will usually be the one who can do the fundamentals better.

    I've read this story five time at least , so I don't get why you think I would think mamum gi is equal to GMR. Mamun gi clearly says he's inferior. I didn't make anything up, I just don't see this as cut and dry as you guys do. Holding back in my view isn't guessing an effort lvl, it would mean not doing moves on a lower skilled opponent that could land them in a compromising position or not using a finishing move they would be unfamiliar with.
    Last edited by Randomaxe; June 07, 2014 at 11:18 PM.

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