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Thread: Things Yet To Be resolved

  1. #31
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    I like Kido, don't get me wrong. If it were up to me there would be more use of Kido in Bleach battles....it adds a certain level of flair. As to it's effectiveness that varies greatly on a situational basis. The same Tessai that most people in these forums praise....lvl 99 chanted binding spell failed horribly to do it's deserved task vs one of the weakness incarnations of Ichigo in Bleach.

    Yama sacrificed his arm with another forbidden spell...that did nothing of note to Aizen....though to be fair he was technically immortal at that point. His unnecessary lost of limb greatly contributed to his later demise.

    Transcended Aizen lvl 90 chanted full powered Kido didn't scratch Ichigo...not even a scratch.



    I had a similar view, it's strange though that he used Kido, a part of his old self but didn't go bankai. I doubt it however that anything in his arsenal at the time could have given him a win barring the immortality.
    Instances where Kido was weak does not make situations when it was pretty darn powerful any less credible. If anything, it just proves my point. Aizen couldn't do ANYTHING to Ichigo. So to kill him, he used Kido. In Aizen's mind, Kido's power was enough to kill Ichigo. Thus, Kido was stronger than his Butterflaizen powers. Kido IS hax. And we still have Byakuya and his Danku.

    It's like me saying Zanpakutos are strong because we have Ryujin Jakka, and you replying with "Okay, they are cool, but Hinamori's Tobiume is weak, thus Zanpakutos are weak altogether". You just can't say that... "Okay, it was powerful here and there, but it was also weak, thus it's weak!"

  2. #32
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    I've got a good one to add. Where the hell is Yoruichi????? She hasn't been seen since before the fullbringer arc. Did Kubo forget she exists?
    making shinigami babies with urahara-san!!!

    ---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Instances where Kido was weak does not make situations when it was pretty darn powerful any less credible. If anything, it just proves my point. Aizen couldn't do ANYTHING to Ichigo. So to kill him, he used Kido. In Aizen's mind, Kido's power was enough to kill Ichigo. Thus, Kido was stronger than his Butterflaizen powers. Kido IS hax. And we still have Byakuya and his Danku.

    It's like me saying Zanpakutos are strong because we have Ryujin Jakka, and you replying with "Okay, they are cool, but Hinamori's Tobiume is weak, thus Zanpakutos are weak altogether". You just can't say that... "Okay, it was powerful here and there, but it was also weak, thus it's weak!"
    kido is as strong as the kido user

    byakuya is the best example of a master with destructive kido, and unohana is a great example of what someone can do with kido and healing

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Instances where Kido was weak does not make situations when it was pretty darn powerful any less credible. If anything, it just proves my point. Aizen couldn't do ANYTHING to Ichigo. So to kill him, he used Kido. In Aizen's mind, Kido's power was enough to kill Ichigo. Thus, Kido was stronger than his Butterflaizen powers. Kido IS hax. And we still have Byakuya and his Danku.

    It's like me saying Zanpakutos are strong because we have Ryujin Jakka, and you replying with "Okay, they are cool, but Hinamori's Tobiume is weak, thus Zanpakutos are weak altogether". You just can't say that... "Okay, it was powerful here and there, but it was also weak, thus it's weak!"

    Don't get it twisted. I said it's effectiveness varies greatly on a situational basis but generally in my opinion barring those two really strong forbidden spells and maybe Hachi's teleportation kido it's just not that great.

    That form of Aizen was a moron though...yeah, he most likely used that specific spell because it distorted gravity and time or gravity and space or w/e because such a grand display was befitting his new god status. But it did absolutely nothing.

  4. #34
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    Don't get it twisted. I said it's effectiveness varies greatly on a situational basis but generally in my opinion barring those two really strong forbidden spells and maybe Hachi's teleportation kido it's just not that great.
    But those situations where it comes in handy and deals great damage overweigh those when it's useless. The kido Ichigo broke (because his strength was far above), was the same that one-shotted Komamura when it was at 1/3 of its original power.

    Quote Quote:
    That form of Aizen was a moron though...yeah, he most likely used that specific spell because it distorted gravity and time or gravity and space or w/e because such a grand display was befitting his new god status. But it did absolutely nothing.
    So he had used it because it had looked cool and then said how Ichigo couldn't survive it? Yeah, right. And of course it did nothing, this whole fight showed us how far above Aizen Ichigo was. It wasn't a matter of Kido being weak, it was just Ichigo being too strong.

  5. #35
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    I am not sure the exploding thing urahara pulled against aizen was a kido. That was the one technique he used that was never explicitely said to be a kido. It could have been a tool that was planted into a kido.... Perhaps that is too much of a technicality though.

    The manga has made the point that the issue with kido in battle is just how absurdly difficult an art it is. Renji is perhaps one of the most talented people of his generation and from what I gather he is unable to actually use kido at all. Its not a matter of him not training it, he is simply unsuited to the task. And even then, being talented at it is not quite enough. Urahara is presumably talented at it and he still needs incantations for level 90 kido and a bunch of what was effective against aizen was so because aizen was being careless. In that context kido has been used in a way that makes sense, its not really something that has been underplayed...

  6. #36
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I am not sure the exploding thing urahara pulled against aizen was a kido. That was the one technique he used that was never explicitely said to be a kido. It could have been a tool that was planted into a kido.... Perhaps that is too much of a technicality though.

    The manga has made the point that the issue with kido in battle is just how absurdly difficult an art it is. Renji is perhaps one of the most talented people of his generation and from what I gather he is unable to actually use kido at all. Its not a matter of him not training it, he is simply unsuited to the task. And even then, being talented at it is not quite enough. Urahara is presumably talented at it and he still needs incantations for level 90 kido and a bunch of what was effective against aizen was so because aizen was being careless. In that context kido has been used in a way that makes sense, its not really something that has been underplayed...
    Kido that sealed the points that are "leaking" reiatsu in Aizen's wrists. He used that technique along with Kidos to distract Aizen, so he doesn't suspect anything. It was a TECHNIQUE (not a tool) developed specifically for Aizen. Plus a seal is also Kido, that Urahara also used along with those techniques.

    I don't think manga ever said Urahara NEEDS incantation for Kidos in the 90s. It gets stronger with incantation, that's for sure. Aizen's Kurohitsugi was at 1/3 of its power because he just said "spell #90, Kirohitsugi"

  7. #37
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Kido that sealed the points that are "leaking" reiatsu in Aizen's wrists. He used that technique along with Kidos to distract Aizen, so he doesn't suspect anything. It was a TECHNIQUE (not a tool) developed specifically for Aizen. Plus a seal is also Kido, that Urahara also used along with those techniques.

    I don't think manga ever said Urahara NEEDS incantation for Kidos in the 90s. It gets stronger with incantation, that's for sure. Aizen's Kurohitsugi was at 1/3 of its power because he just said "spell #90, Kirohitsugi"
    For me the weird part there is that aizen pulled it off from inside himself. Is that a thing with kido? To leave something behind like that? Its a little weird, and the manga never specifically referred to it as a kido (just technique or seal which is just a tad ambiguous), so I would think there is a chance of that being more in the gadget department than the kido one.

    True however even aizen refered to his level 90th kido at a third of its intended power a failure. The issue here is the time an incantation takes, in most scenarios needing an incantation in itself would render a kido useless as it basically announces what you are going to do. With the aizen bit the manga went well out of its way to make the point that aizen intentionally was not being careful and ichigo against the kurohitsugi simply waved the technique away (and I would think he could have as easily just attacked aizen while he was chanting anyways).

    The question here would be whether urahara's level 90th kido without an incantation would be useful against an enemy who is being careful or without its intended full power. In most cases I doubt it, at worst a waste of power considering in most situations shikai easily gets you 100% of your power. Urahara does not seem to have it in him to use level 90th kido at full power (or close to it) without incantations, that seems to be more in hachi's and tessai's territory.

  8. #38
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    For me the weird part there is that aizen pulled it off from inside himself. Is that a thing with kido? To leave something behind like that? Its a little weird, and the manga never specifically referred to it as a kido (just technique or seal which is just a tad ambiguous), so I would think there is a chance of that being more in the gadget department than the kido one.
    It's a seal, that seals those pressure points or whatchamacallit. Of course Kido can leave something. Bakudos are physical, Kirohitsugi as well. Kidos are not just energy beams. If Aizen can still be sealed by a Kido seal implanted in him, that means Kido CAN leave something behind, for example a seal. The same seal that Aizen took out of his wrists.

    Quote Quote:
    True however even aizen refered to his level 90th kido at a third of its intended power a failure. The issue here is the time an incantation takes, in most scenarios needing an incantation in itself would render a kido useless as it basically announces what you are going to do. With the aizen bit the manga went well out of its way to make the point that aizen intentionally was not being careful and ichigo against the kurohitsugi simply waved the technique away (and I would think he could have as easily just attacked aizen while he was chanting anyways).
    Urahara used Bakudos to stop Aizen. Countless Bakudos. Of course, Aizen could break free from them, but the technique itself was still impressive. Bakudos gave Aizen time. When Aizen said it was already too late, Urahara finished chanting. He could just pew pew him, but it probably wouldn't be able to mask those 2 seals.
    Quote Quote:
    The question here would be whether urahara's level 90th kido without an incantation would be useful against an enemy who is being careful or without its intended full power. In most cases I doubt it, at worst a waste of power considering in most situations shikai easily gets you 100% of your power. Urahara does not seem to have it in him to use level 90th kido at full power (or close to it) without incantations, that seems to be more in hachi's and tessai's territory.
    10 chantless Bakudos are game over for any opponent other than god-tier Aizen. If he could land one Bakudo on Aizen, he can Bakudo anyone. And if he does, he can shoot countless Bakudos to completely restrain his opponent, because I don't think anyone would be able to break free immediately before next 10 Bakudos come. Maybe if you are Aizen or Ichigo. Or maybe Juha. In a fair fight I think Bakudos are pretty useful. And if he restrains someone with few Bakudos, he has time for Hadous with incantations, few of them.

  9. #39
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    It's a seal, that seals those pressure points or whatchamacallit. Of course Kido can leave something. Bakudos are physical, Kirohitsugi as well. Kidos are not just energy beams. If Aizen can still be sealed by a Kido seal implanted in him, that means Kido CAN leave something behind, for example a seal. The same seal that Aizen took out of his wrists.



    Urahara used Bakudos to stop Aizen. Countless Bakudos. Of course, Aizen could break free from them, but the technique itself was still impressive. Bakudos gave Aizen time. When Aizen said it was already too late, Urahara finished chanting. He could just pew pew him, but it probably wouldn't be able to mask those 2 seals.


    10 chantless Bakudos are game over for any opponent other than god-tier Aizen. If he could land one Bakudo on Aizen, he can Bakudo anyone. And if he does, he can shoot countless Bakudos to completely restrain his opponent, because I don't think anyone would be able to break free immediately before next 10 Bakudos come. Maybe if you are Aizen or Ichigo. Or maybe Juha. In a fair fight I think Bakudos are pretty useful. And if he restrains someone with few Bakudos, he has time for Hadous with incantations, few of them.
    Well, they are not energy beams but they are energy and in the vast majority of situations it is energy that simply vanishes after being used. Bakudos can physically break but we have yet to see bits and pieces actually remain well after a technique is used. In the case of aizen he removed physical seals that unlike most kido remained there after having fulfilled its purpose.

    He used 3 (maybe 4) high level bakudo (but below the 80th level IIRC). And even then, urahara said that aizen wouldn't have let him just act normally... Everything that was said in that battle specifically makes the point that aizen took hit after hit because he could barely be bothered to dodge. Urahara did not even aim for the wrist seal to kill aizen, every step he took there was a diversion for the kido that did seal aizen himself.

    True, getting sealed like that would be mostly game over however the manga has presented presented context over which the situation is more complicated. We have seen several cases of people breaking out of high level kido (although not too many considering kido is in itself weird). Even when sealed it is not unconscionable that someone could break out. It would depend on the situation but still. Urahara sealed aizen with several bakudo but only in an scenario where aizen was not defending himself properly (urahara made that point himself). In that regard it is not necessarily easy to catch someone in a bakudo like that to begin with, even if weaker than aizen himself. If urahara had caught an aizen that was taking him seriously it would be one thing but that was hardly the case. Heck, in that scenario urahara's kido would be virtually unbeatable and it would essentially render everything else he can do virtually obsolete.

  10. #40
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bromamura's Avatar
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    What was Harribel special attack that she had been preparing to use against Hitsugaya in FKT by raising the moisture level of their battlefield.

  11. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Engestsu View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks Aizen was a fool for not developing/using his bankai? If your shikai can alter one's perception of reality, more than likely, he would have become Gremmy with Zaraki level strength had he developed/used his bankai.
    It's quite possible that Aizen never actually attained his Bankai; his Shikai would have been enough become a Captain, as he could have conjured a fake Bankai for the proficiency test using his Shikai alone. If he did/does have a Bankai, I reckon it might be capable of controlling his opponent's actions (his Shikai controls their inputs, his Bankai controls their outputs).

    Anyway, back to the topic. As I've stated before, I want to see the origins of the Shinigami and how it ties in with the Quincies; I strongly believe there's a connection, as they're literally polar opposites on a molecular level. I also believe they're tied into Humans and Hollows somehow; it could be that the Shinigami are to Hollows as what the Quincies are to Humans (as Humans and Hollows are also polar opposites to each other). In other words, I believe Shinigami are derived from Hollows similar to how Quincies are derived from Humans.
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

  12. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member FetherMan's Avatar
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    Re: Things Yet To Be resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by REN KOUEN View Post
    making shinigami babies with urahara-san!!!

    ---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------


    kido is as strong as the kido user

    byakuya is the best example of a master with destructive kido, and unohana is a great example of what someone can do with kido and healing


    I'd like to see, Tessai, Urahara and Yoruichi together and fight the 8 Sternritter. Obviously, that fight would be in their favor, but Kubo illustrating that for the next 3-5 chapters would be epic. One kidou user, shunpo user and zanpakuto user all utilizing their skills in a fight like that. Awesome.

    "I did battle with ignorance today and ignorance won".

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