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Thread: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

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    Confused Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Hello, helpers! I've searched throughout mangahelpers' forum and have not found an answer to any of questions. I have two really quick questions if you don't mind to help me with them.

    1. Does Ichigo still have his hollow powers/mask?

    Here is my reasoning. Ever since he lost his hollow powers there hasn't really been any news on his hollow powers (at least from my memory). All fullbringers' powers are manifested and used by hollow powers. We haven't heard anything about Ichigo's Mask after his fullbring was stolen. Would this lost of fullbring hollow power mean he has maybe lost his mask? At least for now. Secondly when Ichigo lost his shinigami powers he also lost all use of spiritual pressure. Meaning maybe he also temporary lost his Quincy and Hollow powers, because both Quincies and Hollows are able to sense spiritual pressure. When Ichigo finds his asachi (His white sword) it was said to be a familiar model of Aizen's creation, and that his hollow powers mixes with his shinigami powers to bring him his powers. So does this mean his hollow powers are now infused into Ichigo himself, so he does not need to pull out his mask?

    2. Does Ichigo know that he can use Blut Vene?

    I'm very curious! He didn't seen to know what it was or even noticed it in his fight with Bach. Ichigo just seemed to instinctively use it in his fight. Does he even KNOW about it?

    You can also discuss Ichigo's new zanpakuto abilities in this thread. - Miyagi
    Last edited by Miyagi; June 05, 2014 at 02:16 PM.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinatownVN View Post
    Hello, helpers! I've searched throughout mangahelpers' forum and have not found an answer to any of questions. I have two really quick questions if you don't mind to help me with them.

    1. Does Ichigo still have his hollow powers/mask?

    Here is my reasoning. Ever since he lost his hollow powers there hasn't really been any news on his hollow powers (at least from my memory). All fullbringers' powers are manifested and used by hollow powers. We haven't heard anything about Ichigo's Mask after his fullbring was stolen. Would this lost of fullbring hollow power mean he has maybe lost his mask? At least for now. Secondly when Ichigo lost his shinigami powers he also lost all use of spiritual pressure. Meaning maybe he also temporary lost his Quincy and Hollow powers, because both Quincies and Hollows are able to sense spiritual pressure. When Ichigo finds his asachi (His white sword) it was said to be a familiar model of Aizen's creation, and that his hollow powers mixes with his shinigami powers to bring him his powers. So does this mean his hollow powers are now infused into Ichigo himself, so he does not need to pull out his mask?
    His Mask was him using his real Shirosaki power. Now that he has his real Zanpakuto, no limits at all, Shirosaki as his bitch, he doesn't need a mask. All of Hollow powers are in his Hollow/Shinigami sword.


    Quote Quote:
    2. Does Ichigo know that he can use Blut Vene?

    I'm very curious! He didn't seen to know what it was or even noticed it in his fight with Bach. Ichigo just seemed to instinctively use it in his fight. Does he even KNOW about it?
    Of course. Yhwach's talk wouldn't have made sense if he hadn't known about it.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    The basic abilities ichigo has shown so far should remain the same IMO. GT, FGT, those are all techniques pertaining to his own powers. In the past ichigo ichigo's bankai has shown two specific abilities, high speed combat and GT. I am of the school of thought that both abilities will be essentially split between his shinigami and quincy blades. Before juhabach had acted as ichigo's main source of power and absorbed him, technically they are one to begin with but juhabach was the one in charge. Now each of them acts in one blade so it makes sense that the bits of power ichigo was drawing from each in the past would work in specific blades.

    My main issue with all of this is that it seems ichigo will end up with 2 abilities, he will be the only person in bleachverse with such a thing. Well, technically he already was although now it will be more explicit. I wonder how the two abilities thing will work out for him.... I guess the manga could go another way although the idea would seem weird.

    As far as the mask and his hollow powers, he still keeps them from what I can tell except that in another form. Back when ichigo used the mask he was supressing shirosaki himself, we saw ichigo absorb him and juhabach draw him from within ichigo. When shirosaki was drawn out he was taken back by juhabach and as a result he lost his mask. However he did not loose his powers, from what I gather they simply changed the form in which they manifested. Instead of ichigo wearing a mask like the vizards he simply deposited the whole of his powers into his zampakuto. What we see now is the same, the whole of ichigo's shinigami/hollow powers is within his zampakuto. So he does not need a mask, his zampakuto already deals with that. The weird thing is that the vizards don't seem to be able to draw out their hollows and place them into their zampakuto.... Perhaps given their unique circumstances they would need a different process to achieve that. Or perhaps they are simply not advanced enough hybrids to pull of such a thing.

    From what I gather ichigo is already conscious of blut vene, I doubt it was by accident that he used it against the real juhabach. The issue here is him using all his quincy abilities which he should now have access too. Unless putting his quincy powers into a zampakuto means that all his quincy abilities will be manifested through it.... Dunno how blutz or the shadow would work through the zampakuto though. The most likely scenario is that he is able to use all the basic quincy abilities that are innate though. I doubt he can use advanced things like the quincy threads though, that seems to take a decent bit of practice. I wonder if by the time this invasion is over ichigo will be the one to lead the shinigami to the quincy's dimension....

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    I wonder if we'll see fire-based abilities or Ichigo will stick to Getsuga Tensho and its variants. There are strong hints that Ichigo has fire abilities as well but he hasn't displayed them yet, perhaps the female four have failed to push Ichigo that far. Bazz-B made the point that fire can be used to counter fire and Yhwach possesses Yamamoto's bankai, it seems to be an ideal situation for Ichigo to put his abilities to good use against the main villain.

    There's also the confusing situation of FGT. Ichigo has access to shinigami, quincy and presumably hollow abilities now and he should be able to reach greater heights. One thing that makes me curious, did Ichigo start using FGT technique once he fused with the sword or did it only apply to Mugetsu? In the latter scenario, Ichigo could keep his transcendental powers for good, then what stops him from improving upon it now? I suspect once he assumed that post-dangai form, Ichigo was bound to lose his powers anyway, Mugetsu only made the process much quicker. Or can it be that it was some sort of bankai/vollstandig combo which prevented Ichigo from releasing spiritual energy, his quincy powers were predominant at the time. That means we may see something similar next time he goes bankai, I doubt he'll need it against the female four though.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Well, as far as an element goes the only thing we have ever seen is ichigo's black bankai reiatsu which is supposedly similar to a cero. If ichigo ever gets an element I think it will be just that.

    You forgot to mention ichigo has his human side as well, with that he is basically of all types of souls around (and ishin was made into a shinigami/human hybrid by urahara).

    As far as FGT goes I would think it is simply a zampakuto technique, it is ultimately unrelated to his transcendental powers. Ishin has that too and he does not have transcendental powers or antyhing past shinigami powers for that matter.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Well, Ichigo acquired transcendental powers after the training where he learned FGT, so they may be somehow related. I'm not sure how else we can explain the source of these powers, once Zangetsu taught him the secret of FGT, Ichigo became something entirely different. Ichigo still possesses that knowledge but he doesn't seem to have that sort of power even though he unlocked his quincy and shinigami abilities and is stronger than ever, the only reason I can think of is that he needs to activate FGT mode to attain the same level. We haven't seen Isshin's bankai or FGT but we have reason to believe that his will be different from Ichigo's, possibly because of the lack of inclusion of quincy and hollow abilities.

    Regarding Isshin, he has fire abilities besides a generic GT/FGT which makes me think Ichigo may have other zanpakuto abilities as well. Whether it's also fire or something else is another matter entirely but considering that he's Isshin's son and generated an incredible amount of heat energy when he finally connected with his shinigami self, I think it makes sense for him to bear similarities. I'd think he will need much more than GT against Yhwach, I'm expecting Ichigo to reveal some other abilities besides his usual arsenal.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    what is the literal translation for getsuga juujishou?

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    Well, Ichigo acquired transcendental powers after the training where he learned FGT, so they may be somehow related. I'm not sure how else we can explain the source of these powers, once Zangetsu taught him the secret of FGT, Ichigo became something entirely different. Ichigo still possesses that knowledge but he doesn't seem to have that sort of power even though he unlocked his quincy and shinigami abilities and is stronger than ever, the only reason I can think of is that he needs to activate FGT mode to attain the same level. We haven't seen Isshin's bankai or FGT but we have reason to believe that his will be different from Ichigo's, possibly because of the lack of inclusion of quincy and hollow abilities.

    Regarding Isshin, he has fire abilities besides a generic GT/FGT which makes me think Ichigo may have other zanpakuto abilities as well. Whether it's also fire or something else is another matter entirely but considering that he's Isshin's son and generated an incredible amount of heat energy when he finally connected with his shinigami self, I think it makes sense for him to bear similarities. I'd think he will need much more than GT against Yhwach, I'm expecting Ichigo to reveal some other abilities besides his usual arsenal.
    Well, ichigo training with his zampakuto before has resulted in him having stronger reiatsu in the past, its not that weird that this training also resulted in him having access to more of his powers. The issue here is that FGT is simply a zampakuto technique, nothing more. Heck, ishin has it and he does not have transcendental powers. To add to that, we have to consider ichigo had his transcendental powers before he actually used the technique. If he only had transcendental powers because of FGT then they should have been activated alongside the technique.

    Well, zampakuto are usually limited to one ability at a time, the manga has made a few points about that by now. Ishin did have fire but overall his techniques still seem to revolve around GT in itself. Odds are that ichigo will show other techniques however they will likely be based of the GT we know. Same goes for ishin, its likely that his zampakuto techniques are all based around GT.

    ---------- Post added at 12:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by REN KOUEN View Post
    what is the literal translation for getsuga juujishou?
    http://readms.com/r/bleach/583/2401/19
    According to the MS translation its moon fang cross stab.
    I don't think there are other translations out just yet. cnet and badkarma are usually out one or two weeks after the chapter release.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, ichigo training with his zampakuto before has resulted in him having stronger reiatsu in the past, its not that weird that this training also resulted in him having access to more of his powers. The issue here is that FGT is simply a zampakuto technique, nothing more. Heck, ishin has it and he does not have transcendental powers. To add to that, we have to consider ichigo had his transcendental powers before he actually used the technique. If he only had transcendental powers because of FGT then they should have been activated alongside the technique.
    Oh, I couldn't express myself properly. I was wondering if the transcendental form with long bankai chain, the fusing with the sword was a prerequisite for FGT form and Mugetsu technique. Since the technique consumes all your power, you probably need to be at the highest energy state to activate the technique and for Ichigo it may mean transcendence whereas Isshin's limit may be Kenpachi-level reiatsu. Consequentially Isshin's FGT would be much weaker and couldn't hurt the likes of Aizen.

    The training in Royal Dimension allowed a vice-captain such as Renji to reach a level above captains such as Kensei and Rose. If it was just a matter of training, I guess Ichigo must have attained even a higher level of transcendence with his newfound powers. We haven't seen his bankai yet and I don't rule out the possibility that he may assume some transcendental form but it seems to me that the only way we can see such a form again is if he decides to use Mugetsu one more time. Perhaps it was a one time thing like Ishida's Letzt Stil and the next time we'll see Ichigo do something remotely similar may be a technique akin to Vollstandig which actually won't cost him his powers.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    Oh, I couldn't express myself properly. I was wondering if the transcendental form with long bankai chain, the fusing with the sword was a prerequisite for FGT form and Mugetsu technique. Since the technique consumes all your power, you probably need to be at the highest energy state to activate the technique and for Ichigo it may mean transcendence whereas Isshin's limit may be Kenpachi-level reiatsu. Consequentially Isshin's FGT would be much weaker and couldn't hurt the likes of Aizen.

    The training in Royal Dimension allowed a vice-captain such as Renji to reach a level above captains such as Kensei and Rose. If it was just a matter of training, I guess Ichigo must have attained even a higher level of transcendence with his newfound powers. We haven't seen his bankai yet and I don't rule out the possibility that he may assume some transcendental form but it seems to me that the only way we can see such a form again is if he decides to use Mugetsu one more time. Perhaps it was a one time thing like Ishida's Letzt Stil and the next time we'll see Ichigo do something remotely similar may be a technique akin to Vollstandig which actually won't cost him his powers.
    Ahh, I see what you mean. From what I gather the main difference between ichigo when he fought aizen and before that is reiatsu quality. Its the quality of his reiatsu which had the transcendence thing that was a plot point (hence all what was said about feeling reiatsu and whatnot). In that regard I would argue FGT is still indepedent of it since it is a zampakuto technique.

    Seeing the manga I would actually argue that ichigo right now is not as strong as he was when he fought and defeated aizen. Its a bit backwards but at the time ichigo had a whole transcendence thing going on which does not seem to be a thing now. Aizen had reiatsu which was only felt by others when he lowered it enough and we actually saw ishin not being able to feel it. Ichigo in turn had something even above aizen and for the most part easily waved away incoming attacks from aizen which supports the notion of ichigo having power simply beyond aizen's comprehension. In turn now people still seem to be able to regularly feel ichigo's reiatsu. Rukia and others were able to feel it and as far as we can tell they are still just shinigami.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Ahh, I see what you mean. From what I gather the main difference between ichigo when he fought aizen and before that is reiatsu quality. Its the quality of his reiatsu which had the transcendence thing that was a plot point (hence all what was said about feeling reiatsu and whatnot). In that regard I would argue FGT is still indepedent of it since it is a zampakuto technique.
    That's one of the plot points I'm looking forward to getting an explanation for. IIRC Hikifune said that Ichigo's wavering reiatsu was a thing of the past when Ichigo left the Royal Dimension. In that sense it can be argued that Ichigo's reiatsu quality is better than before at this point, yet his reiatsu doesn't seem to be as potent. I guess there're some other factors unknown to us, which prevent Ichigo from reaching full power.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    I think that Ichigo is still a transcendent being. But because he has now acquired full-control over his powers and zapankutou, he can now control his spiritual power like captains, in order to not use too much reiatsu and to not reveal his trump card to Bach.
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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Ahh, I see what you mean. From what I gather the main difference between ichigo when he fought aizen and before that is reiatsu quality. Its the quality of his reiatsu which had the transcendence thing that was a plot point (hence all what was said about feeling reiatsu and whatnot). In that regard I would argue FGT is still indepedent of it since it is a zampakuto technique.

    Seeing the manga I would actually argue that ichigo right now is not as strong as he was when he fought and defeated aizen. Its a bit backwards but at the time ichigo had a whole transcendence thing going on which does not seem to be a thing now. Aizen had reiatsu which was only felt by others when he lowered it enough and we actually saw ishin not being able to feel it. Ichigo in turn had something even above aizen and for the most part easily waved away incoming attacks from aizen which supports the notion of ichigo having power simply beyond aizen's comprehension. In turn now people still seem to be able to regularly feel ichigo's reiatsu. Rukia and others were able to feel it and as far as we can tell they are still just shinigami.

    It seems that Ichigo's human side is the true source of his powers and not any of these spiritual powers. I was re-reading the chapters about his Mother and Father's past and something occurred to me. I think, the base of Ichigo's powers is the "human" part. And that part allows Ichigo to adapt to different kinds of spiritual powers that he comes in contact with.

    If you think about it, when Ichigo made contact with Rukia, his shinigami powers come forward and advanced through training and battles. The same thing with him being approached by the Vaizards. Training and sparring with Shinji and others, allowed him to advance his hollow powers further and to their peek, when he fought in Hueco Mundo and defeated Ulquiorra.

    After he learned to connect these two major sources of his power, he was allowed to transcend, due to his human side. And being around the Fullbringers allowed him to reactivate his original spiritual powers. The memories as stated by Ywhach, were explained here, during his training with Ginjou and others. Even losing his ability to "Fullbring", the memory of being able to use that power is never gone.

    It's like, Ichigo's powers are a muscle / memory, base program and once it comes in contact with a certain kind of power, it recorded. Finally, Ichigo's battle with the Quincy. I did notice that when, Ichigo and Uryuu first challenged each other and ended up facing a Menos, Uryuu was able to tap into Ichigo's power and use them to defeat the hollow. I believe that, this is a clear view as to why, the medallions would not work on Ichigo period. Not because he's just a Quincy, but because his base power cannot be altered or absorbed by an outside force. That is why, Zangetsu (youth Ywhach) had to be a part of Ichigo's power internally, in order to lock this part of his power.

    Presently, Ichigo isn't using Hollow, Shinigami, Quincy or Fullbring, but he's actually combined everything he's learned into one power base form. And I think, this is what Aizen's goal was from the time of Ichigo's birth. And why, Ywhach wants him as the head of his war powers. Ichigo is unique and the only others like him are his twin sisters. Imagine trying to fight a being like Ichigo, who can no longer be limited by the principles of each of these kinds of spiritual powers. Ichigo, himself is a whole new power in itself and he's about to unleash this power into the war.

    This development will eventually lead to the Soul King, wishing for Ichigo to play a major important role in the evolution of the spiritual worlds and balances that keep them in order. I imagine that, Ichigo's power can change those limitations forever and that makes him special indeed.

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    i think we can all agree that Ichigo's element will be fire (just like Isshin)

    also i think Ichigo's bankai form will be the FGT form (without losing his powers) when Ichigo learned that Ywach is stopping Ichigo's power level to max i think that if Ywach didn't do that his original bankai form when he fought Byakuya will be the FGT form not the one we saw in their fight

    also i like what Fetherman said about Ichigo's human side when Ichigo used FGT in fighting Aizen all Ichigo got is physical power for me FGT convert all of his Shinigami , Hallow powers to his human side and make him superhuman that's why Aizen can't feel anything from Ichigo because all of those powers are in Ichigo's human body(muscles) and when he used the slash for FGT that is the part where he lost all his powers

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    Re: Ichigo's Current and Old abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by FetherMan View Post
    It seems that Ichigo's human side is the true source of his powers and not any of these spiritual powers. I was re-reading the chapters about his Mother and Father's past and something occurred to me. I think, the base of Ichigo's powers is the "human" part. And that part allows Ichigo to adapt to different kinds of spiritual powers that he comes in contact with.

    If you think about it, when Ichigo made contact with Rukia, his shinigami powers come forward and advanced through training and battles. The same thing with him being approached by the Vaizards. Training and sparring with Shinji and others, allowed him to advance his hollow powers further and to their peek, when he fought in Hueco Mundo and defeated Ulquiorra.

    After he learned to connect these two major sources of his power, he was allowed to transcend, due to his human side. And being around the Fullbringers allowed him to reactivate his original spiritual powers. The memories as stated by Ywhach, were explained here, during his training with Ginjou and others. Even losing his ability to "Fullbring", the memory of being able to use that power is never gone.

    It's like, Ichigo's powers are a muscle / memory, base program and once it comes in contact with a certain kind of power, it recorded. Finally, Ichigo's battle with the Quincy. I did notice that when, Ichigo and Uryuu first challenged each other and ended up facing a Menos, Uryuu was able to tap into Ichigo's power and use them to defeat the hollow. I believe that, this is a clear view as to why, the medallions would not work on Ichigo period. Not because he's just a Quincy, but because his base power cannot be altered or absorbed by an outside force. That is why, Zangetsu (youth Ywhach) had to be a part of Ichigo's power internally, in order to lock this part of his power.

    Presently, Ichigo isn't using Hollow, Shinigami, Quincy or Fullbring, but he's actually combined everything he's learned into one power base form. And I think, this is what Aizen's goal was from the time of Ichigo's birth. And why, Ywhach wants him as the head of his war powers. Ichigo is unique and the only others like him are his twin sisters. Imagine trying to fight a being like Ichigo, who can no longer be limited by the principles of each of these kinds of spiritual powers. Ichigo, himself is a whole new power in itself and he's about to unleash this power into the war.

    This development will eventually lead to the Soul King, wishing for Ichigo to play a major important role in the evolution of the spiritual worlds and balances that keep them in order. I imagine that, Ichigo's power can change those limitations forever and that makes him special indeed.
    Coming in contact with different reiatsu can definitely have an effect, we know that is possible from what juhabach said about ichigo escaping kirge's jail although I don't think this is a case of ichigo adapting to powers he comes in contact with. Ichigo is someone who was born with all 4 types of souls within his own souls. Urahara made ishin into a shinigami/human hybrid and masaki herself had a quicy soul with a hollow stuck to it. Ichigo's soul does not need to adapt to different types of spiritual power in that regard, it simply needs to awaken then because those powers are already an inherent part of him. Shinigami powers probably came first because of the rukia bit. Who knows, under slightly different circumstances it could have been his quincy powers that would have surfaced first. Being that his shinigami powers were fused with his hollow powers it makes sense that by drawing on his shinigami powers it would draw out his hollow powers which is why they came second. Then the only thing left would be quincy powers. Although, the role his human side plays here is a bit of a mystery even now. Human souls themselves seem to have little to no powers. Even now most human powers turned out to be fullbring which is a hollow based power. Orihime and kanonji are still a tad out there though (orihime's powers are similar to fullbring but them being alive like a zampakuto makes the situation extremely weird).

    I am not sure aizen actually grasped the ichigo situation either. Aizen was always obsessed about the shinigami/hollow hybrid but he always ignored hybrids concerning quincy. He never seemed to want quincy powers for himself. If he really wanted to study ichigo then he must have taken into account that ichigo's soul had all 4 elements from the start.

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