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Thread: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Sweaty Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    in light of the new chapters ive been wondering, why isnt tsunade one of the most OP characters in the manga? her mother or father was an uzumaki/ senju mix plus they wouldve inherited some of the kyuubi chakra from mito,making him/her pretty much goku... so even if he/she married a regular nin that would still leave tsunade with some of the greatest genetics of all time... this doesnt make sense to me... i honestly think kishi just pulled most of this arc out of his ass, cause realistically tsunade should be a top 10 contender simply due to her genetics...

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Tsunade healed most of the village during Pain's attack, shielding/healing them from a devastating Shinra Tensei via her slug. She also has a regeneration jutsu that rivals Hashirama and is effectively immortal in battle for some time. She also has the most (or maybe second after Sakura) physical strength out of anyone in the manga. She was cut in half and still managed to summon her slugs and heal the Kages, it was just slow healing due to tsunade being so weak. After Madara got semi-serious, she was the only Kage left conscious. She inherited some of Hashirama's/Mito's genetics such as stamina and huge chakra capacity.

    She's not a ninja jesus like Naruto and his instant regrow missing eyes or talk no jutsu, but she's a legendary medic. Sounds jesus-like to me.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Firstly, Tsunade's a medic before she's anything else, and her feats are unmatched on that front. However, the thing is that, as vaunted as the Senju and Uzumaki are, they haven't been consistently handed the keys to success as a result of their heritage. Tsunade's ability is the result of her precise chakra control, and the seal that she developed. Something Sakura, a kunoichi without any lineage to speak of, is capable of herself. So, yes, in a sense it seems that in the genetic lottery, Tsunade somehow managed to get screwed despite seemingly having the right combination. Of course, there is one issue, we know her paternal grandparents, but that's it, we know little of her parents to adjudge things more directly.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Tsunade as a doctor is effectively ninja jesus. Her actions minimized casualties during pain's raid of the village and she has been keeping people alive in the war more than anyone else. Heck, she was literally torn apart by madara and she still managed to save the lives of the kage. Somehow it took her like 2 seconds to heal shikamaru too. Also, consider how good sakura is as a doctor and how far she herself is from tsunade. At the start of part 2 sakura pranced into the sand village and made a mockery out of every medical ninja there with no exceptions. Sakura was the one who cured kanjuro when people at the sand village were shrugging at what to do with the dying guy. And tsunade is still presumably the superior doctor. So if sakura has more medical knowledge than the entire sand village, where does that leave tsunade? When it comes to skills tsunade is perhaps the most exceptional and advanced of the kage, the issue is that her focus is not necessarily fighting. I mean, the raikage is only good and punching stuff and the other kage seem to rely on their KG and whatnot. Tsunade's genes made her develop a set of absurdly advanced skills in comparison. And even then, with fighting being a secondary thing to her, she can fight at a level which the other kage have no option but to respect (her brute strength is in fact superior to that of raikage for example). Tsunade within the context of the manga is THAT awesome.

    Now, as far as genetics go I don't think she really had that much going on for her over any other senju. Uzumaki and senju genes are virtually the same thing so its not like she would have to be stronger than her parents. There is the kyubi bit although that probably would have been more relevant to her parents rather than her considering that god genes and chakra seem to dilute over time (just look at kaguya, her sons and their sons, they had weakened versions of their respective powers).

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Tsunade's Jesus. Sasuke was dying from a stab, while Tsunade managed to stay alive for a while AND save the kage from dying. This was after being cut in half, with her lower extremities meters away from her. When Orochimaru came, she was able to be whole again and rejoined the fray. THat alone is Jesus-like, although Jesus doesn't have any power or whatever else fairy tale.

    her parents could have been Jesus, we don't know. But, it's probably hard for them to be famous when the father/father-in-law was Hashirama while the uncle was Tobirama, two who became hokage and preceded Hiruzen, who himself became famous. Plus, we don't know anything about their generation, I think, just Hashirama's and Tsunade's.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bradhimself's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    This is interesting. Nothing is said about her parents, Who would have descended from Mito.

    One of her parents would have been Similar to Naruto in features and potentially a Senju warrior with Uzumaki longevity. That person would be still alive if Hiruzen can live this long (He took his own life) they would have been roughly the same age, But Tsunade's Uzumaki/Senju parent in much better shape thanks to Kyuubi Chakra, Senju healing powers and Uzumaki longevity.

    DAMN! I can't believe I have never thought of this.

    ---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post

    Now, as far as genetics go I don't think she really had that much going on for her over any other senju. Uzumaki and senju genes are virtually the same thing so its not like she would have to be stronger than her parents. There is the kyubi bit although that probably would have been more relevant to her parents rather than her considering that god genes and chakra seem to dilute over time (just look at kaguya, her sons and their sons, they had weakened versions of their respective powers).
    I'd have to disagree on the whole Uzumaki and Senju are virtually the same thing. The same was said about Hyuuga and Uchiha until we found out otherwise. The Byakugan and Sharingan were thought to be linked to each other but nope, 2 Different eyes. I would say the same thing is going to be revealed about Uzumaki and Senju, Although they come from the same source (As does everything) I bet that there will be a fundamental difference uncovered shortly.

    For everything said about the medical side of things. Good work, couldn't agree more
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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradhimself View Post
    I'd have to disagree on the whole Uzumaki and Senju are virtually the same thing. The same was said about Hyuuga and Uchiha until we found out otherwise. The Byakugan and Sharingan were thought to be linked to each other but nope, 2 Different eyes. I would say the same thing is going to be revealed about Uzumaki and Senju, Although they come from the same source (As does everything) I bet that there will be a fundamental difference uncovered shortly.

    For everything said about the medical side of things. Good work, couldn't agree more
    Well, with naruto there is an entirely different set of circumstances. We know the senju and uzumaki are distantly related and as far as we know naruto is not an actual senju. Naruto has ashura's chakra which is conclusive proof that he is a descendant of his since the whole thing is fundamentally genetic. Unless it turns out naruto is a senju on some side of the family and the uzumaki are related to a missing son of the rikudo's brother. However at this stage the most likely scenario is that the senju and uzumaki are fundamentally the same thing, descendants from ashura.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bradhimself's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, with naruto there is an entirely different set of circumstances. We know the senju and uzumaki are distantly related and as far as we know naruto is not an actual senju. Naruto has ashura's chakra which is conclusive proof that he is a descendant of his since the whole thing is fundamentally genetic. Unless it turns out naruto is a senju on some side of the family and the uzumaki are related to a missing son of the rikudo's brother. However at this stage the most likely scenario is that the senju and uzumaki are fundamentally the same thing, descendants from ashura.
    I can see 2 possibilities of kishi explaining the family tree. #1 and most likely is your explaination of distant relatives. #2 is uzumaki being related to Haruma and explaining why their powers are different. Would make sense as I imagine Haruma helped in the sealing of the Juubi into Hagoromo, Possibly at the expense of his life. Would explain the Uzumaki specialty of sealing jutsu.

    But most likey will be #1 to keep it a little more canon. I just expect any twist from Kishi these days. 15 chapters ago nobody could have seen this coming Bar Badluckartist (I think is secretly writing the manga)
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    While it is tempting to attribute the Uzumaki towards Hamura, evidence points towards them being descendants of Hagoromo simply because they have to share Ashura's bloodline to effectively be his reincarnation.

    Hamura is most certainly the ancestor of the Hyuugas and a myriad of other potential descendants such as Kimimaro, the Gold and Silver Brothers and other genetically blessed characters.

    When it comes down to Tsunade and her parents, we have to take into account what Hagoromo said about children not necessarily inherinting the strenght of their parents.

    I know real life genetics sound weird in Naruto but it is a proven fact that we do not inherit the traits of our parents, just a pool of genetic resources which may manifest desired qualities or not.

    Tsunade's parents aren't mentioned because they weren't particularly strong or famous Shinobi and there are two good possibilities behind that.

    First of all, they grew during the years of peace under Hashirama's rule to the point Tsunade was born and spoiled while he was still alive.

    They were a generation not pressed into conflict to develop their abilities since they could fall back to Hashirama's own ludicrous power and had Tobirama to further cover them up if that failed.

    You can think of them as the lawyers born into a family of soldiers during a period when fighting was scarce and unecessary whereas many laws were being drafted and implemented.

    Second of all, as I pointed out, whoever was the child of Hashirama and Mito did not have to inherit the abilities of neither of them.

    The kid could have been a total loser and that coupled with the relative peace of that era didn't motivated that person to grow into a powerful fighter like Naruto did.

    Imagine if Minato and Kushina were still alive and pampering Naruto the way Hashirama and Mito probably pampered their child given how Tsunade was spoiled as a kid.

    He would be a complete failure shielded by his powerful parents who could get him anything he wanted.

    So, no mandatory natural skills coupled with an uncompetitive enviroment explains the lack of a legendary Uzumaki/Senju heir to Hashirama and Mito but where does that leave Tsunade?

    Tsunade is powerful, her chakra and lifeforce are way bigger than either Jiraya's or Orochimaru's but Kishimoto crippled her down by having her suffer from premature aging and lack of training.

    This is what makes Tsunade weaker than her genes and proven skills hint her to be, she is already past her prime.

    Tsunade was once probably the most powerful Sannin around the time of Dan's death, she had the Yin-Seal, unrivalled medical prowess and the most chakra out them but once Dan went down she suffered the same problem as Sakumo Hatake.

    The moment she lost her will to fight, developing fear of blood, and became disillusioned with the world, Tsunade stopped training seriously and let her abilites slide down until the day Jiraya and Naruto came to pick her up.

    That, coupled with the premature aging brought by continuous use of her healing techniques through many years of battle left her with a fraccion of the power she had in her prime.

    If Tsunade was in her prime, Sakura would barely compare to her at all which kind of makes all of her development a moot point. Hence we had to have Tsunade start out as crippled to justify Sakura's lack of Uzumaki and Senju hax catching up with her.

    Despite all that, Tsunade is currently the most powerful of the current Kage and still displays greater chakra reserves than her non-Senju student which proves her worthiness against anyone who isn't the crancked up reincarnation of a demi-god as powerful as her grandfather or received his broken eyes.
    Last edited by 1337 haxor; June 13, 2014 at 04:10 PM.
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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    I don't think it makes sense that tsunade's parents would have lived during a peaceful time. There have been 4 great ninja wars, the one that is ongoing, the one where minato fought and the two previous ones. Naturally tsunade's parents would have had to live at some point during the first and second one. For all we know her parents were indeed exceptional but they simply died young. With her lineage it would be weird that they were not exceptional. They were born superior human beings, in particular from 2 specially powerful shinobi (hashirama and that uzumaki woman). Its far more likely that they simply died before realizing their potential than them actually being weak.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    i can understand hat you all are saying about tsunade being a super healer but heres the thing, sakura is at the same level at 17... the way i see it is like this

    tsunades mother or father, was uzumaki and senju, giving them the top tier genetics and they most likely inherited kyuubi chakra. that child was most likely trained by hashirama and mito, meaning he/she had full access to senju and uzmaki techniques, so that kid shouldve been god tier.

    even if tsunade is only half uzumaki/senju she is still leagues above regular nin, not only that she wouldve been trained by her parents and since she was trained by the third and ahs the most op genetics she should be far more capable than she actually is... seriously think about it, she has shown nothing more than healing and chakra manipulation, no nature manipulation, no stealth or technique to her at all. the senju are supposed to be good at all sorts of ninjutsu, along with the uzumaki and their sealing techniques her mother or father shouldve been godly seeing as they wouldve been trained by both hasirama and mito and tsunade herself should at least be the strongest hokage, and i dont mean just in raw strength i mean altogether.

    im really starting to think kishi made half this shit up on the fly,

    ---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think it makes sense that tsunade's parents would have lived during a peaceful time. There have been 4 great ninja wars, the one that is ongoing, the one where minato fought and the two previous ones. Naturally tsunade's parents would have had to live at some point during the first and second one. For all we know her parents were indeed exceptional but they simply died young. With her lineage it would be weird that they were not exceptional. They were born superior human beings, in particular from 2 specially powerful shinobi (hashirama and that uzumaki woman). Its far more likely that they simply died before realizing their potential than them actually being weak.
    the first ninja war is when tobirama died, seeing as hashirama died before then his kid or kids, shouldve been top tier or at least tweens. tsuande was also born by then, which doesnt really make sense to me and makes me think theirs another glitch in the matrix lol

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    We've seen in the past few chapters how godly parents don't always produce godly children. Ashura and Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto and Minato + Kushina.

    Maybe Tsunade parents were the same. Godly parents but par/subpar kids. Could you count the seal on her head as sealing technique? It is called Yin Seal:Release when she uses it. And Mito had a similar mark on her forehead. Maybe she learned that from her Uzumaki parents. Like how Kushina sucked at ninjutsu but could teach Minato some sealing jutsus.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoko View Post
    We've seen in the past few chapters how godly parents don't always produce godly children. Ashura and Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto and Minato + Kushina.

    Maybe Tsunade parents were the same. Godly parents but par/subpar kids. Could you count the seal on her head as sealing technique? It is called Yin Seal:Release when she uses it. And Mito had a similar mark on her forehead. Maybe she learned that from her Uzumaki parents. Like how Kushina sucked at ninjutsu but could teach Minato some sealing jutsus.
    kushina sucked at ninjustu but was still able to using top level sealing jutsu. see i would agree with you if tsunade wasnt given the title of "sannin". shes supposed to be one of konhas greatest but she cant even use a nature ninjutsu. plus again she is senju, the clan thats supposed to be gifted at every type of technique, she should be able to do more than simple punches and medical jutsu

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Yeah, it is definitely a glitch lol. Kishi did not even try to keep the timelines consistent (can you imagine an 11 year old itachi defeating orochimaru?). We know the wars started 80 something years ago because of tobi's testimony and tsunade was born around 52 years ago so that means tsunade was born during the 30 years long period through which madara and hashirama appeared to be in their late 20s.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think it makes sense that tsunade's parents would have lived during a peaceful time. There have been 4 great ninja wars, the one that is ongoing, the one where minato fought and the two previous ones. Naturally tsunade's parents would have had to live at some point during the first and second one. For all we know her parents were indeed exceptional but they simply died young. With her lineage it would be weird that they were not exceptional. They were born superior human beings, in particular from 2 specially powerful shinobi (hashirama and that uzumaki woman). Its far more likely that they simply died before realizing their potential than them actually being weak.
    Actually it does when you consider that Hashirama was still alive when his granddaughter was born.

    This means that Hashirama didn't even die in the First Shinobi World War by the time his son or daughter already got married and had Tsunade.

    Considering that Hashirama and Mito only got married after Konoha was founded, this means that Tsunade's supposed super parent lived some 20 years under relative peace and stability.

    Even when we consider the First Shinobi World War, they had Hashirama and Tobirama to dominate it so it is reasonable that Tsunade's parents weren't major contributors.

    What is more important though is to remember that strong parents don't actually mean their children will inherit their power and surpass them and that weaker parents can actually give birth to exceptionally stronger children.

    Strong parents grants genes which boast great power but they also carry other genes which don't follow their affinities.

    Hashirama's strong chakra and Mito's chakra control prowess could have skipped their child and resurfaced in Tsunade from the pool of genes inherited from her Senju/Uzumaki parent.

    This makes perfect sense and is supported by other characters's familial relationships:

    -Kimimaro had the Shikotsumyako when nobody else in his clan had it for generations.
    -Ohnoki has a Kekkei Tota which neither his child and grandchild inherited.
    -Muu had the same Kekkei Tota despite being completely unrelated to Ohnoki.
    -Obito was born with enormous potential despite his parents being rank and file Uchiha.
    -Ashura didn't inherit Hagoromo's talent.
    -Naruto was an academic failure like his mother while lacking any talent like his father.
    -Kabuto developed advanced spying skills while having to blood relationship with Nono.

    So, having strong parents doesn't automatically mean you will be a successful Shinobi, it increases the chance of inheriting potential but that is not guaranteed nor does it make up for hard work.
    Last edited by 1337 haxor; June 13, 2014 at 06:09 PM.
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