Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/18/14 - 8/24/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 507 by Bomber D Rufi
New Reply
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 16 to 23 of 23

Thread: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    290
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    kushina sucked at ninjustu but was still able to using top level sealing jutsu. see i would agree with you if tsunade wasnt given the title of "sannin". shes supposed to be one of konhas greatest but she cant even use a nature ninjutsu. plus again she is senju, the clan thats supposed to be gifted at every type of technique, she should be able to do more than simple punches and medical jutsu
    That's what I'm saying. Tsunade's parents possibly sucked at ninjutsu and weren't god-like, but could teach Tsunade some sealing jutsus and she applied them by creating (or recreating if Mito had it) her Yin Seal. I have nothing to back this up, but I'm guessing Yin Seal is a sealing jutsu and chakra manipulation since the user is sealing/storing chakra in a precise point in her body for a long period of time. And probably a high level seal since Shizune no one outside of Sakura and tsunade could do it.

    Also Minato was a Hokage yet we've never seen his element or anything outside of shadow clone, s/t, sealing, and rasengan. Raikage only uses raiton to increase his reflexes/speed for devastating taijutsu. Tsunade is not the only Kage or legendary shinobi to not use any nature elements or nature ninjutsu.

    Should she do more than simple punches and medical jutsus? I disagree. If you are a medic, you probably aren't going to have numerous jutsus. You would focus all you studies/training on healing. Even if you do come from prodigious clans.
    Last edited by Yoko; June 13, 2014 at 07:02 PM.

  2. #17
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,617
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 haxor View Post
    Actually it does when you consider that Hashirama was still alive when his granddaughter was born.

    This means that Hashirama didn't even die in the First Shinobi World War by the time his son or daughter already got married and had Tsunade.

    Considering that Hashirama and Mito only got married after Konoha was founded, this means that Tsunade's supposed super parent lived some 20 years under relative peace and stability.

    Even when we consider the First Shinobi World War, they had Hashirama and Tobirama to dominate it so it is reasonable that Tsunade's parents weren't major contributors.

    What is more important though is to remember that strong parents don't actually mean their children will inherit their power and surpass them and that weaker parents can actually give birth to exceptionally stronger children.

    Strong parents grants genes which boast great power but they also carry other genes which don't follow their affinities.

    Hashirama's strong chakra and Mito's chakra control prowess could have skipped their child and resurfaced in Tsunade from the pool of genes inherited from her Senju/Uzumaki parent.

    This makes perfect sense and is supported by other characters's familial relationships:

    -Kimimaro had the Shikotsumyako when nobody else in his clan had it for generations.
    -Ohnoki has a Kekkei Tota which neither his child and grandchild inherited.
    -Muu had the same Kekkei Tota despite being completely unrelated to Ohnoki.
    -Obito was born with enormous potential despite his parents being rank and file Uchiha.
    -Ashura didn't inherit Hagoromo's talent.
    -Naruto was an academic failure like his mother while lacking any talent like his father.
    -Kabuto developed advanced spying skills while having to blood relationship with Nono.

    So, having strong parents doesn't automatically mean you will be a successful Shinobi, it increases the chance of inheriting potential but that is not guaranteed nor does it make up for hard work.
    KT is something different from KG, I am not sure that really works for your point. Naming the talented people does not necessarily work for your point either.

    Nono the nun? She was not related to kabuto as far as we saw. Even then, kabuto was one of the talented people, at best we simply don't know who his parents were.

    Your point is that having strong parents does not automatically make you strong however the manga has consistently shown that everyone with strong parents is actually strong. Look at naruto. He was born from exceptional parents and by the sole merit of his genes, not of his hard work, he became some sort of demigod. Ashura is fundamentally the same thing. I am not sure of what the manga is talking about when it says naruto or ashura are untalented however they have without a shred of a doubt done everything they have done because of their genes and ability to learn stuff. Naruto has been learning A ranked ninjutsu since he was 12 which would be incredible even if society as a whole hadn't been dragging him down. I mean, during his childhood people actually went out of their way to make him miserable and stop from growing stronger. To boot kushina was noted to be an exceptional shinobi. Naruto failing at academics is kinda moot if he is already a demigod solely on the merit of his genes.

    As far as kimimaru goes, his clan as a whole was annihilated because people feared their power. Sure, kimimaru was born stronger than others in his clan but that does not mean the others were weak.

    As far as obito goes, we have no reason to believe his parents were weak, we never even saw them. The manga has actually made the point that each and every uchiha back in the day was an elite shinobi. Basically there weren't weak uchiha even if they didn't all necessarily activate the sharingan. The senju were their match and even bested them which presumably also means they were all strong too.

    By now the notion that strong parents don't produce strong children is unfounded, there are virtually no known cases of such a thing. Sure, oonoki's children are not as strong as him however his descendants are still elite jonnin. There might be some ground for the idea that non exceptional parents can produce exceptional children although the only known case so far would be gai.

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Country
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    969
    Post Thanks / Like

    Cool Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoko View Post
    The manga says otherwise.
    Both Naruto and Ashura were "failures" in that neither were originally very good from the start (they were late bloomers). They needed a lot of help or time to bloom. Compared to Indra/Sasuke who easily grasped the everything. Eventually Naruto/Ashura became strong. Sasuke/Indra were strong from the start.


    Kushina said she wasn't good at ninjutsu
    But like Naruto/Ashura, she eventually became strong in her own way.

    As for exceptional ninjas coming from ordinary families, there's Minato, Jiraiya, Orochimaru etc. Nobody ever said they were strong just like family/clan. And I would add Sakura as well She is on par with Tsunade (a Hokage and a sanin) and with her strength and Yin seal and strength of a hundred jutsu.
    Yes, that's the point, people won't get the powers of their parents just because the latter were strong. They just have an increased probability of that happening.

    Take Hiruzen the third God of Shinobi, he had two children like Hagoromo. One who is Asuma, the prodigy who lead Team 10 and the other who is Konohamaru's parent, a totally unknown figure.

    Then take Nagato's parents, they were civilians with no power yet they bore a child whose chakra was so high he could sustain both Rinnegans of Madara Uchiha and use them almost as if they were his.

    Descending from a powerful person grants you the genetic possibility of developing into a great Shinobi but that depends on wheter you took the right genes for talent or the bad genes for hard work.

    What we must not forget is how genetics work. You inherit a pool of genes from each of your parents rather than a mixture of their exact genetic code.

    Naruto is absurdingly powerful because the soul of a demi-god incarnated into him yet the traits he took from Minato and Kushina are neither equal or advantageous.

    Naruto took predominantly traits from his mother, his Uzumaki genes were predominant in terms of strong chakra and life force, his personality is closer to hers and so is his inaptitude for academic prowess yet he did not inherit her most prominent genes.

    Naruto lacks Kushina's red hair, his life force is not as strong as her's when you compare their extractions of the Kyuubi and most important of all he lacks her powerful chakra chains which could be used to fight entire armies.

    Naruto took much less traits from Minato, he inherited his motor control to learn by repetition and fight at high speeds, his blond hair and his tendency for obliviousness yet he lacked his most prominent features.

    Naruto did not inherit Minatos intelligence, his analytical skills are poor and most important of all he doesn't have Minato's talent for Ninjutsu and Fuinjutsu.

    From the pool of genetic resources Naruto could take from his parents, he took most of their defects whereas gaining only their generic traits and secondary abilities in return.

    His abilities as a Sage and as a Jinchuuriki only developed due to his own merits and his spiritual connection with Ashura whose genes were loosely present whitin Kushina's ancestory.

    None of Naruto's primary abilities are a direct result of his strong parents but actually of a strong distant ancestor with thousands of marriages mixed into his genetic descendency, thus proving how phenotypes can skip generations and produce either children who lack any of their parent's good traits or children who manifest incredible traits which both his parents lacked.

    This more than makes clear why Tsunade's Senju/Uzumaki parent wasn't some legendary demi-god like her grandfather, a Fuinjutsu prodigy like her grandmother or a combination of both.
    Last edited by 1337 haxor; June 13, 2014 at 09:43 PM.
    Captain Mashima and Admiral Kishimoto give your ships one big fat F*** YOU ALL!

  4. Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  5. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    290
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 haxor View Post
    Yes, that's the point, people won't get the powers of their parents just because the latter were strong. They just have an increased probability of that happening.

    Take Hiruzen the third God of Shinobi, he had two children like Hagoromo. One who is Asuma, the prodigy who lead Team 10 and the other who is Konohamaru's parent, a totally unknown figure.

    Then take Nagato's parents, they were civilians with no power yet they bore a child whose chakra was so high he could sustain both Rinnegans of Madara Uchiha and use them almost as if they were his.

    Descending from a powerful person grants you the genetic possibility of developing into a great Shinobi but that depends on wheter you took the right genes for talent or the bad genes for hard work.

    What we must not forget is how genetics work. You inherit a pool of genes from each of your parents rather than a mixture of their exact genetic code.

    Naruto is absurdingly powerful because the soul of a demi-god incarnated into him yet the traits he took from Minato and Kushina are neither equal or advantageous.

    Naruto took predominantly traits from his mother, his Uzumaki genes were predominant in terms of strong chakra and life force, his personality is closer to hers and so is his inaptitude for academic prowess yet he did not inherit her most prominent genes.

    Naruto lacks Kushina's red hair, his life force is not as strong as her's when you compare their extractions of the Kyuubi and most important of all he lacks her powerful chakra chains which could be used to fight entire armies.

    Naruto took much less traits from Minato, he inherited his motor control to learn by repetition and fight at high speeds, his blond hair and his tendency for obliviousness yet he lacked his most prominent features.

    Naruto did not inherit Minatos intelligence, his analytical skills are poor and most important of all he doesn't have Minato's talent for Ninjutsu and Fuinjutsu.

    From the pool of genetic resources Naruto could take from his parents, he took most of their defects whereas gaining only their generic traits and secondary abilities in return.

    His abilities as a Sage and as a Jinchuuriki only developed due to his own merits and his spiritual connection with Ashura whose genes were loosely present whitin Kushina's ancestory.

    None of Naruto's primary abilities are a direct result of his strong parents but actually of a strong distant ancestor with thousands of marriages mixed into his genetic descendency, thus proving how phenotypes can skip generations and produce either children who lack any of their parent's good traits or children who manifest incredible traits which both his parents lacked.

    This more than makes clear why Tsunade's Senju/Uzumaki parent wasn't some legendary demi-god like her grandfather or a Fuinjutsu prodigy like her grandmother whose history was carved for generations of Shinobi to behold in awe.
    I made 2 edits to my post trying to say what you said in this post. But I felt I wasn't being clear so I ended up deleting my my my post. But I Agree with everything you've said.

  6. #20
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Zooler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    18
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    As far as kimimaru goes, his clan as a whole was annihilated because people feared their power. Sure, kimimaru was born stronger than others in his clan but that does not mean the others were weak.
    Kimimaro clan wasn't anihilated becouse people feared their power. It was annihilated becouse they atack The Hidden Mist Village. And Kimimaro is cleary out of his clan league since he was the only one who survived and most importantly as a kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    There might be some ground for the idea that non exceptional parents can produce exceptional children although the only known case so far would be gai.
    If i remember it corectly, Gai's father fought the Seven Mist Swordsman to save Gai's life. Not weak for me...

  7. #21
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    Canada
    Posts
    429
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoko View Post
    That's what I'm saying. Tsunade's parents possibly sucked at ninjutsu and weren't god-like, but could teach Tsunade some sealing jutsus and she applied them by creating (or recreating if Mito had it) her Yin Seal. I have nothing to back this up, but I'm guessing Yin Seal is a sealing jutsu and chakra manipulation since the user is sealing/storing chakra in a precise point in her body for a long period of time. And probably a high level seal since Shizune no one outside of Sakura and tsunade could do it.

    Also Minato was a Hokage yet we've never seen his element or anything outside of shadow clone, s/t, sealing, and rasengan. Raikage only uses raiton to increase his reflexes/speed for devastating taijutsu. Tsunade is not the only Kage or legendary shinobi to not use any nature elements or nature ninjutsu.

    Should she do more than simple punches and medical jutsus? I disagree. If you are a medic, you probably aren't going to have numerous jutsus. You would focus all you studies/training on healing. Even if you do come from prodigious clans.
    tsunades parents couldnt have sucked at ninjutsu though, being a senju means you have a predisposition to be good at all forms of ninjutsu. that means her mother or father, who was both senju, uzumaki and had kyuubi chakra had to be a power house. its impossible for that specific parent to be bad at jutsu, when they are genetically superior in all forms of combat. the difference between the uzumaki and senju is that the uzumaki are built for sealing, binding and life energy while the senju are built for all forms of combat. dont forget the uzumaki are distant cousins, so they dont necessarily have the same amount of sage blood as the senju, they are a watered down version that didnt get all the benefits, so kushina being shitty at ninjustu makes sense.

  8. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    290
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Why isnt tsunade or her parents ninja jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    tsunades parents couldnt have sucked at ninjutsu though, being a senju means you have a predisposition to be good at all forms of ninjutsu. that means her mother or father, who was both senju, uzumaki and had kyuubi chakra had to be a power house. its impossible for that specific parent to be bad at jutsu, when they are genetically superior in all forms of combat. the difference between the uzumaki and senju is that the uzumaki are built for sealing, binding and life energy while the senju are built for all forms of combat. dont forget the uzumaki are distant cousins, so they dont necessarily have the same amount of sage blood as the senju, they are a watered down version that didnt get all the benefits, so kushina being shitty at ninjustu makes sense.
    All I can say is look at 1337 haxor post above. He explains better than I can.

  9. #23
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,617
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zooler View Post
    If i remember it corectly, Gai's father fought the Seven Mist Swordsman to save Gai's life. Not weak for me...
    Gai's dad was a gennin not worthy of any recognition as far as I could tell. His only merit was mastering the 8 gates and using them when he died. And from what we saw the 7 swordsmen did not die, we know some if not most of them made it to later points in the timeline. The guy with the samehada was killed by kisame later on and suigetsu's brother was there, I doubt gai's dad killed him. So the scenario is that dai with the power of the 8 gates was not able to kill 7 measly jonnin even though the power that should have given him is as insane as what gai got.

New Reply
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts