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Thread: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member mrsticky005's Avatar
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    Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    Namely that the cause of death for it's victims is NOT "radiation sickness".
    A lot of people even after reading the manga have concluded that the Poor Man's Rose
    kills people through radiation sickness and that's why the King and Royal Guards died.
    Some people even say that it was cheap writing by Togashi and argue that since
    the King was healed from being a charcoal briqutte that it's lame that the Royal Guard
    couldn't heal a little bit of radiation poisoning.

    Which would be true...except it's NOT radiation. Now it may very well be possible that
    the Poor Man's Rose IS radioactive but the argument here is what the actual cause of death is and I think there's good reason to believe it's NOT due to radiation. Here's why.


    1. Radiation is NOT contagious. The Rose poison however is.
    While one can say that Pouf and Youpi were at the bomb site
    Komugi however wasn't and yet she died because she was near the King too long.
    The manga explains the Rose poison was specifically designed to create a chain
    of victims. In this way the Rose is actually closer to a bacterial disease than radiation

    2. Togashi never says "radiation".
    Now you could say that's just Togashi trying to be subtle but the problem is
    Togashi explains what the Rose Bomb is and if it was just radiation then
    why not just say so? Or even just say humans are evil and not give
    ANY explanation and just let people figure out the King is dying from radiation.
    The reason why is because it's NOT radiation. It's a deadly and inhumane poison

    3. You can survive radiation. You CAN'T survive the Rose.

    Some people think that the King died because of radiation and that
    the poisoning Togashi was talking about was basically cancer
    from the body trying to fight off the radiation. But no. It's not.
    It's poison. This is why Pouf and Youpi could never heal the King.
    If the King had cancer then the Royal Guard should have been
    able to heal the King from that and it would be over.
    But the Rose is cruel. It's effective because it's constantly
    producing new poisons within the body.
    The Rose bomb will keep producing poison until the victim dies
    and then it spreads to any nearby victims.

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SHINOBI-03's Avatar
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    This might be a bit too early to explain since there's a chance for it to be explained the next episode, but since it's here, I'll quote Viz's translation on the matter:

    The Rose had poisoned thorns. That's what made the Poor Man's Rose so insidious. Those killed instantly in the blast zone were the lucky ones.

    In the survivors' bodies, the poison was absorbed, eating them away from the inside while turning them into poisonous agents themselves, contaminating new victims. The rate at which the poison killed was exquisitely timed to create a chain reaction of casualties.

    In short... it was a weapon like no other. It was expressly engineered to be the ultimate of evil.


    So yes, it was poison, not radiation. And the way I understand it, it's contagious in a way that it causes a chain reaction in a timed manner and not instantly.

  3. #3
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    Moderator message by: Demonspeed
    I will close this thread for now.


    ---------- Post added at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------

    Moderator message by: Demonspeed
    Thread reopened.
    Last edited by Demonspeed; June 13, 2014 at 06:21 AM.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    I am pretty sure the manga was explicit in that the rose had poison and not radiation. I mean, it specifically said poison. As far as of why the royals did not cure the king from the poison, I would think it is because of the method they used to heal him. To be specific, the method they used was to give the king their own bodies to recover that of the king. The issue here is that the bodies of the royals already had the poison in them so when the king took in their cells and regenerated he also took in their poison. Now, the case could be made that the process by which the king was healed never would have rid him from the poison to begin with. They were just reconstituting his body with their own cells, such a thing should not really get rid of the poison already inside the king. In this regard it does not even make a difference if it was poison or radiation. Even if it was radiation giving the king their own bodies would not have gotten rid of it and since they were giving their bodies to the king the most likely scenario is that irradiated cells would have been transferred to the king which would have killed him anyways. The bomb in itself was brilliant in that regard.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    Just an all around terrible plot device imo...what kind of poison survives a 100000 degree environment and is also capable of spontaneous evolution and is also transmitted by air? All of which is contained within the size of a baseball. And it's easy to mass produce?! How on earth could something that deadly be in the hands of a few crappy dictatorships?

  6. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SHINOBI-03's Avatar
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    Quote Originally Posted by mousiehamster View Post
    Just an all around terrible plot device imo...what kind of poison survives a 100000 degree environment and is also capable of spontaneous evolution and is also transmitted by air? All of which is contained within the size of a baseball. And it's easy to mass produce?! How on earth could something that deadly be in the hands of a few crappy dictatorships?
    "Suspension of Disbelief". You need to use it once in a while when dealing with something out of a fictional world.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Kamen Rider Dragon's Avatar
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    Quote Originally Posted by mousiehamster View Post
    Just an all around terrible plot device imo...what kind of poison survives a 100000 degree environment and is also capable of spontaneous evolution and is also transmitted by air? All of which is contained within the size of a baseball. And it's easy to mass produce?! How on earth could something that deadly be in the hands of a few crappy dictatorships?
    What kind of human can make a giant budda statue?

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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    Suspension of belief doesn't apply to concept like Rose because it's clearly supposed to be based on real technology.

    First of all, the notion of having a massive bomb that also spreads poison is pretty dumb to begin with, because Mereum was quite possibly the only entity in HXH that could've survived the Rose in the first place. Anyone else would've been blown to smithreens if they're anywhere near the blast radius, and the dead can't spread disease. Then, we also have the question of what kind of impotent poison they're building in the first place. Mereum was at ground zero of the explosion, and he walked around and drolling drones but somehow never spread poison to anyone besides the other two Royals (and they probably already have it for being near the blast area). It looks like it takes no more than about a day for the poison to kill you, which puts it as more virulent than just about everything known. However, it seems like a carrier has to be around another person for a pretty long time before this will spread. If this is supposed to be a weapon of ultimate evil, then whoever created it needs to have their license for evil revoked.

    There's a reason why deadly diseases like Ebola doesn't often spread very well, because whoever has it is going to die pretty quickly and the dead can't move around. The potency of how well some kind of disease can spread is basically (how quickly it can spread) X (how slowly it kills someone), and note that the faster it kills someone the worse it is for spreading. The Rose apparently sucks at spreading but kills its host really fast, and it also requires the host to be some kind of all powerful entity that can even survive the Rose blast in the first place.

    ---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mousiehamster View Post
    Just an all around terrible plot device imo...what kind of poison survives a 100000 degree environment and is also capable of spontaneous evolution and is also transmitted by air? All of which is contained within the size of a baseball. And it's easy to mass produce?! How on earth could something that deadly be in the hands of a few crappy dictatorships?
    Honestly given the way Rose is described it's a miracle that the world of HXH hasn't been wiped out in some kind of apocalytic warfare. It's said that even terrorists can get their hands on the Rose because it's so easily available.

  9. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member mrsticky005's Avatar
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Suspension of belief doesn't apply to concept like Rose because it's clearly supposed to be based on real technology.

    First of all, the notion of having a massive bomb that also spreads poison is pretty dumb to begin with, because Mereum was quite possibly the only entity in HXH that could've survived the Rose in the first place. Anyone else would've been blown to smithreens if they're anywhere near the blast radius, and the dead can't spread disease.

    IF they're anywhere near the blast radius which may not be the case.
    Guess who weren't anywhere near the blast radius? The Royal Guards.
    The dead can't spread disease? News to me. But even so the living can and
    it was at least an hour before Meruem started feeling the effects of the poison.
    This gave him time to spread the poison to the Royal Guard. Which is pretty much
    the whole point of the Poor Man's Rose. For those who somehow survive the blast
    or were far away enough they would still be poisoned and they can spread
    the poison to those even further away. Entire cities could probably be wiped
    out within a few weeks because of how the Poor Man's Rose is designed.



    Then, we also have the question of what kind of impotent poison they're building in the first place. Mereum was at ground zero of the explosion, and he walked around and drolling drones but somehow never spread poison to anyone besides the other two Royals (and they probably already have it for being near the blast area). It looks like it takes no more than about a day for the poison to kill you, which puts it as more virulent than just about everything known. However, it seems like a carrier has to be around another person for a pretty long time before this will spread. If this is supposed to be a weapon of ultimate evil, then whoever created it needs to have their license for evil revoked.

    Did you forget that Meruem spread the poison to Komugi who may I remind you never went near the blast area? I'm preeeeeeeeeeety sure there are poisons in real life that can kill you within a few hours. I don't think we can really measure how long it takes for the carrier to spread the poison because between from when
    Meruem was infected and when he died at least an hour went by. So again the poison is designed to keep the victim alive long enough to be able to spread it to others.


    There's a reason why deadly diseases like Ebola doesn't often spread very well, because whoever has it is going to die pretty quickly and the dead can't move around. The potency of how well some kind of disease can spread is basically (how quickly it can spread) X (how slowly it kills someone), and note that the faster it kills someone the worse it is for spreading. The Rose apparently sucks at spreading but kills its host really fast, and it also requires the host to be some kind of all powerful entity that can even survive the Rose blast in the first place.

    Again you're only thinking of those directly hit by the Rose.
    The farther away from the bomb the likelihood of surviving the blast increase.
    Actually the Rose does NOT kill it's host really fast. I'm not sure where you
    got that idea considering how it took at least an hour for the King to die.


    ---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------



    Honestly given the way Rose is described it's a miracle that the world of HXH hasn't been wiped out in some kind of apocalytic warfare. It's said that even terrorists can get their hands on the Rose because it's so easily available.
    actually I wonder that myself. Though I would guess MAD comes into play

  10. #10
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    They should've just fired rockets with nerve gas. Meleron can deploy the canisters, teleport away with Novu's help and administer the antidote (if any gets on him, that is). Unlike the Rose, the stuff isn't contagious and antidotes are available to counteract its effects.

  11. #11
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    They were supposed to act in secret I don't think transporting missiles would have been a good idea. Netero wanted to fight him alone so even if they had better options he would refuse them.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Something needs to be said about The Poor Man's Rose SPOILERS

    Quote Originally Posted by mousiehamster View Post
    Just an all around terrible plot device imo...what kind of poison survives a 100000 degree environment and is also capable of spontaneous evolution and is also transmitted by air? All of which is contained within the size of a baseball. And it's easy to mass produce?! How on earth could something that deadly be in the hands of a few crappy dictatorships?
    Not only in the hands of dictatorships.
    It was in the hands of a lot of countries and it was even in the hands of terrorist. It is why his use was banned.

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