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Thread: Power balance inconsistency

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 haxor View Post
    Guy is not on Hokage level unless he uses the 7th Gate and this gate in particular tires him up extremely quickly, his 6th Gate is not enough to beat Kisame who admitted himself was no match for the likes of a Sannin.
    Kisame simply said that being a member of the Seven Swordmen or the Uchiha clan can't be compared to the title of a Sennin, which is not a surprise.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

  2. #17
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 haxor View Post
    Guy is not on Hokage level unless he uses the 7th Gate and this gate in particular tires him up extremely quickly, his 6th Gate is not enough to beat Kisame who admitted himself was no match for the likes of a Sannin.

    Guy is not a one trick poney, he is an elite Jonin, the greatest Taijutsu user in the world and possibly the greatest of all time but his power inconsistency makes him an unreliable candidate for Hokage.

    When Guy used the 7th Gate for a single attack against Kisame he didn't march straight into the war, he was left exhausted and had to be healed before entering the battlefield again.

    By comparison, Tsunade used her Byakugou for hours against Madara and still kept it after being brutally bisected and forced to divert her chakra for healing other four Kage level fighters.

    You can't have a Hokage who fights at the level of Hokage for just a few minutes before having to leave the battlefield in a completely worn-down fashion.

    Minato was Hokage because he could spam the Hiraishin for hours if he didn't have to teleport something ridiculously big like a Tailed Beast.

    Hiruzen was Hokage because he knew enough techniques to fight the enemy for hours if he had to.

    Tobirama was Hokage because he could spam the Hiraishin and use several other techniques for hours against the enemy.

    Hashirama was the Hokage because he could summon giant wooden statues for hours to fight against the enemy.

    Kakashi was appointed as the next Hokage not because he could use his Sharingan and Chidori for a few times a day but because his intelligence and vast arsenal of techniques could hold of the enemy for hours if he had to.

    Guy can fight for hours with just his normal Taijutsu but at basic level he would only qualify as a Tokubetsu Jonin and he would hardly make it past a high level opponent from Akatsuki or an enemy village as expected from a Kage.

    If I were to try and rank Guy I'd say he goes more or less like this:

    Base level - 10% of Tsunade's level
    1st Gate - 20%
    2nd Gate - 30%
    3rd Gate - 40%
    4th Gate - 50%
    5th Gate - 60%
    6th Gate - 70%
    7th Gate -80%
    8th Gate - 1000%


    At least to me each Gate until the 7th multiplies the person's basic abilities by the number of that gate so that Guy is some 7 times stronger when he uses the 7th.

    The 8th Gate is as ludicrous as it looks because it makes you a hundred times stronger than you naturally are so it would be as if 10 Tsunades were punching and kicking Madara together at each blow he received.
    you think guy is only 10% tsunades base strength? are you kidding? you cant honestly believe that... kabuto was able to fight tsunade on par when before they her and jiraiya took on orochimaru and kabuto is was said to be the same level as kakashi. youre really reaching here man. outside of medical ninjutsu and super strength tsunade is completely worthless. if she uses her byakugo she has a brief time limit before she turns into an old lady and is comatose. tsunade is completely worthless unless she is at close range. all you have to do is keep your distance from her and youre golden. its crazy that you really think shes that powerful, shes a mediocre nin, simply because she only has two aspects, healing and strength. there are far more nin capable than tsunade in konoha. she just has age and experience which is the only reason why they chose her to be kage

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    you think guy is only 10% tsunades base strength? are you kidding? you cant honestly believe that... kabuto was able to fight tsunade on par when before they her and jiraiya took on orochimaru and kabuto is was said to be the same level as kakashi. youre really reaching here man. outside of medical ninjutsu and super strength tsunade is completely worthless. if she uses her byakugo she has a brief time limit before she turns into an old lady and is comatose. tsunade is completely worthless unless she is at close range. all you have to do is keep your distance from her and youre golden. its crazy that you really think shes that powerful, shes a mediocre nin, simply because she only has two aspects, healing and strength. there are far more nin capable than tsunade in konoha. she just has age and experience which is the only reason why they chose her to be kage
    Wait, you are seriously comparing that part I Tsunade with hemophobia and years without combat training to the actual Hokage?

    Kabuto only did anything there because he knew Tsunade froze solid at the sight of blood and once she got over it both he and Orochimaru had to haul ass out of there.

    Also, you said yourself that Kabuto was Kakashi's level and we already mentioned that Kakashi is Hokage candidate, I fail to see how a crippled Tsunade besting someone with Kage potential makes her any weaker.

    Kakashi without his Sharingan is already at 60% of Tsunade's level and by the time he lost Kamui he was at some 80% like Guy with the 7th Gate.

    You must re-read the manga if you are assuming that Tsunade can only keep her seal active for a few minutes, she has enough chakra to heal the entire village of Konoha at once which is more people than the entire Shinobi Alliance.

    She didn't fight Madara for just minutes, the five Hokage kept him busy for an entire afternoon as Madara only barged into Obito's fight when the day was already over.

    Chakra wise, Tsunade got the most raw reserves of all the three Sannin because of her heritage and combined with her immense chakra control, strenght and medical prowess it becomes clear she really deserves her title as one of them.

    Trying to make a case of ranged attacks is moot against a Wolverine with Hulk's strenght charging against you, this not to mention that Tsunades speed isn't bad either when compared to most top level Shinobi of this series.

    What people gotta stop doing is mixing Tsunade's battle record with her actual achievements in the series.

    It is simply unfair to judge her based on the likes of Pain and Madara whose Rinnegan alone made them stronger than the 5 Kages put together.

    Let's see Guy fight Madara or Pain for more than 10 minutes, survive being impaled and bisected and still destroying 5 complete Susanoos without resorting to suicide techniques.
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  4. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sipbkkTNcOQ

    before kabuto spilled blood on tsuande he was able to dodge all her techniques, still land hits and was able to utilize his limbs fully after she pulled a shinji type technique on him. even after his nervous system had been tampered with he was able to dodge and fight on par with her, fight off naruto and shizune who is jounin level. tsunade is the weakest of the kage. as i said before, she is not versatile and only has power when it comes to healing and super strength. she is not even close to being to being one of the strongest nin in the story. she isnt even top 20

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  6. #20
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bradhimself's Avatar
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    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 haxor View Post
    Guy is not on Hokage level unless he uses the 7th Gate and this gate in particular tires him up extremely quickly, his 6th Gate is not enough to beat Kisame who admitted himself was no match for the likes of a Sannin.

    Guy is not a one trick poney, he is an elite Jonin, the greatest Taijutsu user in the world and possibly the greatest of all time but his power inconsistency makes him an unreliable candidate for Hokage.

    When Guy used the 7th Gate for a single attack against Kisame he didn't march straight into the war, he was left exhausted and had to be healed before entering the battlefield again.

    By comparison, Tsunade used her Byakugou for hours against Madara and still kept it after being brutally bisected and forced to divert her chakra for healing other four Kage level fighters.

    You can't have a Hokage who fights at the level of Hokage for just a few minutes before having to leave the battlefield in a completely worn-down fashion.

    Minato was Hokage because he could spam the Hiraishin for hours if he didn't have to teleport something ridiculously big like a Tailed Beast.

    Hiruzen was Hokage because he knew enough techniques to fight the enemy for hours if he had to.

    Tobirama was Hokage because he could spam the Hiraishin and use several other techniques for hours against the enemy.

    Hashirama was the Hokage because he could summon giant wooden statues for hours to fight against the enemy.

    Kakashi was appointed as the next Hokage not because he could use his Sharingan and Chidori for a few times a day but because his intelligence and vast arsenal of techniques could hold of the enemy for hours if he had to.

    Guy can fight for hours with just his normal Taijutsu but at basic level he would only qualify as a Tokubetsu Jonin and he would hardly make it past a high level opponent from Akatsuki or an enemy village as expected from a Kage.

    If I were to try and rank Guy I'd say he goes more or less like this:

    Base level - 10% of Tsunade's level
    1st Gate - 20%
    2nd Gate - 30%
    3rd Gate - 40%
    4th Gate - 50%
    5th Gate - 60%
    6th Gate - 70%
    7th Gate -80%
    8th Gate - 1000%

    At least to me each Gate until the 7th multiplies the person's basic abilities by the number of that gate so that Guy is some 7 times stronger when he uses the 7th.

    The 8th Gate is as ludicrous as it looks because it makes you a hundred times stronger than you naturally are so it would be as if 10 Tsunades were punching and kicking Madara together at each blow he received.
    Woah man, Some huge claims in there!

    1. Tsunade did not use her Byakugou for hours. This war has barely been going on for a day, We are still in the night before Naruto's birthday remember. An hour, maybe but definitely not hours.

    2. Hashirama was the Hokage because he created the Village with Madara and people didn't want Madara to be their leader. He stated this himself.

    3. Kisame wasn't a match for the Sannin in question (Jiraiya) in part 1.. because Itachi told him not to. We all know Itachi was secretly protecting the leaf so I wouldn't go off his words in that situation at the start of the Manga. A lot has happened since the start and especially the time skip. Kisame was a beast!! He bested a Jinchuuriki and Raikage in smarts and skills.

    4. Your rankings for Gai are soooo off. 80% Tsunade strength on the 7th gate? So you are saying Tsunade's punch is stronger than Hidoura? Even the 6th gate being at 70%? Dude, Gai's punches are so strong and fast when he has the 6th gate open that they create friction with the speed and the power compresses that and explodes into flames.. If your ranking is accurate we have never seen Tsunade at full power smh.

    5. Tsunade loses all her fights, I don't mean sparring fights ect. I mean as a hokage defending her Village, she is terrible. She got dominated in the pain fight and healed everyone and slipped into a Coma. She got taught an important lesson by Madara, You're nothing compared to other shinobi. Even with the Fight with Orochimaru she was smashed and Oro was pretty much unscathed (Sneaky Bastard).

    I agree she is powerful and is a great healer. But let me put it this way.

    Everything you have attributed as a strength to Tsunade has been transferred to her student that has surpassed her.

    That's right, Sakura.

    Let that sink in for a bit.. Because if you honestly think Tsunade is the be all and end all, then you must have missed the whole scene when Naru. Sasu and Saku were all fighting as the "New Sannin" and the whole "the next generation is stronger than the previous" chat was going on. Sakura showed she was superior, Maybe not as experienced but she did help in taking on the freaking Juubi.

    Let that marinate.

    ---------- Post added at 10:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    you think guy is only 10% tsunades base strength? are you kidding? you cant honestly believe that... kabuto was able to fight tsunade on par when before they her and jiraiya took on orochimaru and kabuto is was said to be the same level as kakashi. youre really reaching here man. outside of medical ninjutsu and super strength tsunade is completely worthless. if she uses her byakugo she has a brief time limit before she turns into an old lady and is comatose. tsunade is completely worthless unless she is at close range. all you have to do is keep your distance from her and youre golden. its crazy that you really think shes that powerful, shes a mediocre nin, simply because she only has two aspects, healing and strength. there are far more nin capable than tsunade in konoha. she just has age and experience which is the only reason why they chose her to be kage
    Same reason they chose Danzo really.

    Tsunade reminds me of another over-hyped Shinobi.... Hmmm...

    Oh yeah that's right, Sakura!

    Except Sakura is stronger than her now, Much like how Sasuke and Naruto are stronger than the Sannin that trained them. (Without all the Indra & Ashura & Bijuu and Dojutsu)

    ---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 haxor View Post
    , she has enough chakra to heal the entire village of Konoha at once which is more people than the entire Shinobi Alliance.
    I can't deal...

    I was thinking "Maybe he just loves Tsunade and it's his favourite character so he is blinded and saying silly things"

    And then you stated the above...

    You need to proof read your stuff. That is a massive over estimation!! You do realise the Shinobi alliance is 5 Nations worth of Shinobi & another nation of Samurai!

    If what you said were true, then Tsunade could heal the entire Shinobi alliance side of the war.

    "Let's see Guy fight Madara or Pain for more than 10 minutes, survive being impaled and bisected and still destroying 5 complete Susanoos without resorting to suicide techniques. " Ok let's see Tsunade fight and win. Let's see tsunade fight Kisame and win.

    The burden of proof isn't on the people picking apart your claims, The burden of proof is on you! Show me a fight Tsunade has fought and won 1v1 and You have a point.

    If not she is effectively a fully grown Sakura.
    You can't end a good party without someone on the floor.

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  8. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    The village has people other than Shinobi. But I am not sure of the numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

  9. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bradhimself's Avatar
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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    The village has people other than Shinobi. But I am not sure of the numbers.
    That is true. Look at the scene where Gaara was adressing the Majority of the alliance just before the war starts.. There is no way Tsunade could heal that many people. That is more than Konoha, even after the casualties when the combined shinobi alliance were standing infront of the Juubi. Still more!
    You can't end a good party without someone on the floor.

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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    The village has people other than Shinobi. But I am not sure of the numbers.
    Well, almost all of the shinobi has a family on their own. So we can deduce that the civilians are great in numbers compared to the ninjas.

  11. #24
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bradhimself's Avatar
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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Well, almost all of the shinobi has a family on their own. So we can deduce that the civilians are great in numbers compared to the ninjas.
    Yes for one village the civilians should out number the Shinobi. But the statement suggested that the entire shinobi alliance is smaller than konoha.

    So that is 6 nations worth of Shinobi and Samurai vs the number of people in konoha...

    So for that to be an even number, Each family would equal to 6 people and 1 being a shinobi. For every konoha shinobi in the war there would have to be 5 family members per shinobi back at konoha. From what I can tell, there are more roots on the battlefield than at konoha.

    Also when Orochimaru and co were casually walking through Konoha it was virtually empty, hey didn't diguise or anything. Hell they walked right throuh the main strip and didn't see a soul!

    ---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------

    Just looked it up. 80,000 in the Shinobi Alliance (not including Chuunin, genin ect..)

    I'd be extremely Suprised if konoha has more than that as their village population.. Since the whole Ghost konoha scene with Oro and co
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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    According to the databooks Konoha has far more population than the other villages... so I would bet the population is greater than 80,000.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradhimself View Post
    Yes for one village the civilians should out number the Shinobi. But the statement suggested that the entire shinobi alliance is smaller than konoha.

    So that is 6 nations worth of Shinobi and Samurai vs the number of people in konoha...

    So for that to be an even number, Each family would equal to 6 people and 1 being a shinobi. For every konoha shinobi in the war there would have to be 5 family members per shinobi back at konoha. From what I can tell, there are more roots on the battlefield than at konoha.

    Also when Orochimaru and co were casually walking through Konoha it was virtually empty, hey didn't diguise or anything. Hell they walked right throuh the main strip and didn't see a soul!

    ---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------

    Just looked it up. 80,000 in the Shinobi Alliance (not including Chuunin, genin ect..)

    I'd be extremely Suprised if konoha has more than that as their village population.. Since the whole Ghost konoha scene with Oro and co
    Well, there's a war, so maybe the civilian are either in the evacuation site or inside of their houses. That's a very plausible scenario when oro and Co visited the konoha.

    And I think the 5 great villages didn't send their entire troops/ninja in the alliance. So there's a possibility that the konoha and even the other great villages had more than 80k of village population that compose of ninjas and civilians.

  14. #27
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bradhimself's Avatar
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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    According to the databooks Konoha has far more population than the other villages... so I would bet the population is greater than 80,000.
    Nah, Konoha was clearly a ghost town without the shinobi there.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    According to the databooks Konoha has far more population than the other villages... so I would bet the population is greater than 80,000.
    The entire civilian population of Konoha is many times greater than the Shinobi alliance, in any society the military only accounts for a fraccion of the total population, it is exactly because most people in the world are civilians that every village had to come together to stand against Akatsuki instead of taking it on with their individual efforts.

    @Brad

    You are mistaking the conceptions of strenght here.

    A Hirudora is stronger than Tsunade's punches but how many of them can Guy use in a single fight?

    Guy gets completely exhausted after using a single Susanoo destroyer Hirudora while Tsunade can destroy as many as five with just her basic punches that also leave craters on the ground.

    Guy's 6h Gate punches so fast that it creates flames but they are still not the chakra enhanced punches which can demolish an entire block.

    Also, which part of "strongest shinobi of each generation" did you failed to read?

    I said that Madara and the Third Raikage were of a different era with people of vastly different strenght than the current generation.

    I don't need to dig much evidence to prove that considering how Madara and Hashirama carved out an entire new ass on earth with their battle.

    Tsunade is roughly on par with Jiraya and Orochimaru who were all surpassed by Minato, the strongest man of his generation.

    Then came Kakashi's generation with him being the strongest Konoha Shinobi who doesn't need to resort to suicidal techniques to earn that position. Yet Kakashi stated that he wasn't a match for the Sannin at least when part I comes to mind but he still young and improving so you can make a case that he will one day be stronger than Tsunade, Jiraya or Orochimaru.

    Then came Itachi's generation with him probably being the strongest Shinobi of Konoha despite forcing himself into a criminal life.

    Then came Naruto's generation who surpassed the Sannin is every way possible.

    Naruto surpassed Hashirama because his opponents were even worse than Madara was in the past, Sasuke all but surpassed the past Madara and nearly equaled the current one in terms of eye power and Sakura managed to master every technique Tsunade taught her at a very young age.

    Sakura is a powerful Shinobi but I don't see how this makes Tsunade weaker. The only issue here is that Sakura's chakra reserves are much lower than Tsunade's simply because she doesn't come from any particularly important bloodline.

    My entire point is that generations change, the levels of power between them change and that the Hokage were only the strongest of their own generation.

    Even if we follow your thoughts and admit that Guy is stronger than Tsunade, he doesn't belong to her generation and was even placed as substitute Hokage on some fillers so the premise of "strongest of each generation" still holds.

    At the time in part I when Tsunade became Hokage, can you really say that Guy and Kakashi were already stronger than her? Do you have evidence from part I that anyone apart from Jiraya had the power besides Tsunade to take the position of Hokage?

    Kabuto, who was on par with or above Kakashi in part I became much stronger than Orochimaru was by the current time of part II so can you really say that Tsunade was weak for having trouble with him or shouldn't we say that Kabuto has always been really damn strong?

    Kishimoto never put any woman on the forefront of this manga and we have rightfully called him on that but coming forth to dismiss their combat potential when taking things outside of context really doesn't help.

    Arguing that anyone is weak for losing to Pain or Madara who are way above 99.9% of all the cast past and present is the same falacity as saying a concrete skyscrapper is weak because it couldn't stand a nuclear blast.
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  16. #29
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bradhimself's Avatar
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    Re: Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 haxor View Post
    The entire civilian population of Konoha is many times greater than the Shinobi alliance, in any society the military only accounts for a fraccion of the total population, it is exactly because most people in the world are civilians that every village had to come together to stand against Akatsuki instead of taking it on with their individual efforts.

    @Brad

    You are mistaking the conceptions of strenght here.

    A Hirudora is stronger than Tsunade's punches but how many of them can Guy use in a single fight?

    Guy gets completely exhausted after using a single Susanoo destroyer Hirudora while Tsunade can destroy as many as five with just her basic punches that also leave craters on the ground.

    Guy's 6h Gate punches so fast that it creates flames but they are still not the chakra enhanced punches which can demolish an entire block.

    Also, which part of "strongest shinobi of each generation" did you failed to read?

    I said that Madara and the Third Raikage were of a different era with people of vastly different strenght than the current generation.

    I don't need to dig much evidence to prove that considering how Madara and Hashirama carved out an entire new ass on earth with their battle.

    Tsunade is roughly on par with Jiraya and Orochimaru who were all surpassed by Minato, the strongest man of his generation.

    Then came Kakashi's generation with him being the strongest Konoha Shinobi who doesn't need to resort to suicidal techniques to earn that position. Yet Kakashi stated that he wasn't a match for the Sannin at least when part I comes to mind but he still young and improving so you can make a case that he will one day be stronger than Tsunade, Jiraya or Orochimaru.

    Then came Itachi's generation with him probably being the strongest Shinobi of Konoha despite forcing himself into a criminal life.

    Then came Naruto's generation who surpassed the Sannin is every way possible.

    Naruto surpassed Hashirama because his opponents were even worse than Madara was in the past, Sasuke all but surpassed the past Madara and nearly equaled the current one in terms of eye power and Sakura managed to master every technique Tsunade taught her at a very young age.

    Sakura is a powerful Shinobi but I don't see how this makes Tsunade weaker. The only issue here is that Sakura's chakra reserves are much lower than Tsunade's simply because she doesn't come from any particularly important bloodline.

    My entire point is that generations change, the levels of power between them change and that the Hokage were only the strongest of their own generation.

    Even if we follow your thoughts and admit that Guy is stronger than Tsunade, he doesn't belong to her generation and was even placed as substitute Hokage on some fillers so the premise of "strongest of each generation" still holds.

    At the time in part I when Tsunade became Hokage, can you really say that Guy and Kakashi were already stronger than her? Do you have evidence from part I that anyone apart from Jiraya had the power besides Tsunade to take the position of Hokage?

    Kabuto, who was on par with or above Kakashi in part I became much stronger than Orochimaru was by the current time of part II so can you really say that Tsunade was weak for having trouble with him or shouldn't we say that Kabuto has always been really damn strong?

    Kishimoto never put any woman on the forefront of this manga and we have rightfully called him on that but coming forth to dismiss their combat potential when taking things outside of context really doesn't help.

    Arguing that anyone is weak for losing to Pain or Madara who are way above 99.9% of all the cast past and present is the same falacity as saying a concrete skyscrapper is weak because it couldn't stand a nuclear blast.
    Tsunade became hokage because the konoha elders wanted it. It is the same for Danzo. Because old people vote for old people. They have both been proven useless for Hokage, Naruto has been more beneficial for Konoha than Tsunade has. In fact, Naruto has gone away from Tsunade's advice that many times and Konoha has benefitted from it Every time!

    Im not going to participate in a conversation between then & now. The only time I referenced part 1 was to defend the claim against Kisame being more than capable o besting tsunade.. Which Gai has defeated time and time again.

    So let's keep it to the hear and now hey?

    What kind of Hokage would deny their strongest asset the chance to defeat an opponent? She always tells Naruto "No, stay here" But regardless it is ALWAYS in konoha's best interest to rely on Naruto... Always.

    Naruto, Kakashi, Gai and Bee did better against Obito & Edo Madara than the 5 Kage did against Edo Madara...

    There is some perspective on the Kage and their respective "Underlings".

    "Even if we follow your thoughts and admit that Guy is stronger than Tsunade, he doesn't belong to her generation and was even placed as substitute Hokage on some fillers so the premise of "strongest of each generation" still holds."

    Your original claim was "I'll be blunt, Tsunade is the strongest living ninja in the world if you discount Naruto, Itachi and every person who got a goddamn Rinnegan."

    You have changed your argument and therefore it is invalid, You're not even talking about the same thing anymore.

    So let's keep this simple,

    I honestly think Gai is stronger than Tsunade, You believe the latter to be stronger.

    So I'll make an arena thread discussing this, Gai can not go 8 gates and it's 1v1. Thoughts?

    ---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 PM ----------

    See what the consensus is also I catered it to exclude Gai's trump card.

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...e-vs-Might-Gai
    You can't end a good party without someone on the floor.

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    Re: Power balance inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    Guy using the Eight Gates doesn't count, a dead man can't be Hokage.

    Also note that the elders asked for Jiraya to be Hokage before looking for Tsunade, who refused it. Kakashi was also a candidate after Tsunade. And these cases also consistent with Hokage being the strongest Ninja of the village.
    Gai using 7 gates was enough to defeat Kisame who is one of the strongest ninja's in the series. And he spared his life. Gai is plenty strong, and I don't think there is a character outside of Madara he can't kill in this series when he decides to use 8 Gates.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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