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Thread: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

  1. #16
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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Quote Originally Posted by narutotheory
    If you think about it...if every Uchiha developed their own Susano'o then they could overtake any of the Bijuus...since 1 Susano'o is Comparable to One Jinchuuriki.
    Nah. Not every Uchiha is an Indra incarnation. You can't expect someone ele to have power like Madara's aside from Sasuke. They may match some of the weaker Bijuu, but not full strength Kurama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795
    Gyuki was simply spinning and this happened http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...66-page-3.html

    This is the destruction it caused as a result http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...71-page-4.html
    (It's right there, the effects of the whirlwind at the middle, comparable to a mountain range).
    He ripped up trees. Those trees lack the durability of full actual mountain ranges. And you're still showing me feats of Bijuu who are making contacts with their targets. Madara doesn't even have to touch something with his Susanoo to render it little more than a pile of dust. If you can show Gyuki turning an entire forest into rubble by simply sneezing on it you'd have a point.

    But you can't.

    Quote Quote:
    The mountain sized mountain slicing sumarai in amour and sword simply doesn't have the feats to match the destructive ability of Half-powered Kurama's mult-mountain - island obliterating feats, let alone the actual 100% yin/yang Kurama.
    Lol, what feats? I'm not talking about hearsay, I'm talking about what we've actually seen full power Kurama do. Infact, we saw full power Kurama have his had smashed by a giant toad. Reaaaal strong.

    I'm not concerned with charge time. I'm concerned with the sheer colossal gap in destructive power. There is no bijuu with power on the scale of Final Susanoo. Madara's, or Sasuke's.

    Well, except the Juubi, but that's a different story. And your manga scans aren't helping you because you've somehow managed to convince yourself that a Bijuudama could harm Madara's Final Susanoo, despite the fact that one couldn't even break one of his Complete Susanoo's swords (a level BELOW final and thus considerably weaker).

    See that? The world's strongest Bijuu next to the Juubi, is weaker than Madara's SECOND STRONGEST Susanoo form! There's an absolutely horrible misrepresentation of Bijuu power in this thread.

    EDIT: As for his swords not being as powerful because he only cut through the mountains rather than touching them, that's irrelevant. Swords aren't built for blowing things to pieces, they're built for cutting things. If his Susanoo had the power to fire a bijuu-dama like attack you can rest easy knowing it would do far, far FAR more damage than any Bijuudama short of the Juubi's.
    Last edited by ninjabot; July 14, 2014 at 10:28 PM.

  2. #17
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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Kurama Prime, who is a tier above the other Biju even at 50%,
    I've address your point; However, where did the notion that Kurama tiers above other Bijuu come from? If I'm not mistaken, it was Kurama that made that nonsense up amongst the Bijuu, him being a naughty little beast amongst his mates.

    The only thing shown is that, the sage separated the 10 tailed into 9 parts and.......... What makes you sure that he'd separate them and give them different tiers of power. Again, don't exaggerate!! Each tailed beast have their own unique sets of abilities.

    Kokuō physically being the strongest (his tech kinda functions like 8th inner gates) " kairiki musou" / "unrivalled physical strength"

    1 tail being proficient at sealing with jinton

    7 tails with blinding ability and air combat (it also looks an covered in armour like Susanoo)

    4 tails is can control lava/fire/magma/plasma and things of that nature.

    And the other beasts have their own sets of abilities.

    In the first place, Kurama only looked more impressive than 1-7 tails because he has a master (Killerbee) who can use it's full powers effectively.

    Kurama is more impressive with Naruto than with Minato, Tobi, Hashirama or Madara as Naruto is the ONLY one that can achieved resonance with his chakra (This was precisely Kurama words).

    So, once again, stop exaggerating all of you.

    ---------- Post added at 04:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Nah. Not every Uchiha is an Indra incarnation. You can't expect someone ele to have power like Madara's aside from Sasuke. They may match some of the weaker Bijuu, but not full strength Kurama.



    He ripped up trees. Those trees lack the durability of full actual mountain ranges. And you're still showing me feats of Bijuu who are making contacts with their targets. Madara doesn't even have to touch something with his Susanoo to render it little more than a pile of dust. If you can show Gyuki turning an entire forest into rubble by simply sneezing on it you'd have a point.

    But you can't.
    By sneezing, yeah good one.... Again stop with your exaggerations. It's silly.



    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Lol, what feats? I'm not talking about hearsay, I'm talking about what we've actually seen full power Kurama do. Infact, we saw full power Kurama have his had smashed by a giant toad. Reaaaal strong.

    I'm not concerned with charge time. I'm concerned with the sheer colossal gap in destructive power. There is no bijuu with power on the scale of Final Susanoo. Madara's, or Sasuke's.

    Well, except the Juubi, but that's a different story. And your manga scans aren't helping you because you've somehow managed to convince yourself that a Bijuudama could harm Madara's Final Susanoo, despite the fact that one couldn't even break one of his Complete Susanoo's swords (a level BELOW final and thus considerably weaker).

    See that? The world's strongest Bijuu next to the Juubi, is weaker than Madara's SECOND STRONGEST Susanoo form! There's an absolutely horrible misrepresentation of Bijuu power in this thread.

    EDIT: As for his swords not being as powerful because he only cut through the mountains rather than touching them, that's irrelevant. Swords aren't built for blowing things to pieces, they're built for cutting things. If his Susanoo had the power to fire a bijuu-dama like attack you can rest easy knowing it would do far, far FAR more damage than any Bijuudama short of the Juubi's.
    Do you listen or are you purposely playing ignorant. Susanoo is primarily an armoured warrior. That was it's main design from day one.

    If you aren't concerned about charged time, then there's nothing to talk about as Bujju's have demonstrated superior fire power. One slices mountains and the other is fully capable of obliterating multiple mountains - island.

    Except Juubi my foot. Juubi isn't exempt from the Bijuu family, so as Madara said, PS is comparable to the Bijuu.

    Oh btw, Kurama with Naruto is stronger than Kurama with Madara. You might want to add that next time, and stop exaggerating with statements like... "And this was back when Kurama was his HUGE form, far, far, FAR more powerful than the one Naruto or Minato have" just to prove an non-existent point .

    ---------- Post added at 04:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 AM ----------

    PS is only stronger than the Bijuu given Kugura or her children's gift empower it (but then again, their gifts are empowering the Bijuu through Naruto as well).
    Last edited by Kay3795; July 14, 2014 at 10:55 PM.

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    There's a very simple explanation for this. Karin is a teenager who is barely a ninja, the only people she's been exposed to are Sasuke, Orochimaru and his experiments. Despite how good of a sensor she is, the first Jinchruiki she encountered was likely Bee and the Raikage was likely the strongest person she ever met up until that point.

    Many members of the Alliance on the other hand, has ninja who have been around since the second shinobi world war, who have been exposed to jinchuriki and legendary shinobi, they simply know better.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Lightbulb Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    I've address your point; However, where did the notion that Kurama tiers above other Bijuu come from? If I'm not mistaken, it was Kurama that made that nonsense up amongst the Bijuu, him being a naughty little beast amongst his mates.

    The only thing shown is that, the sage separated the 10 tailed into 9 parts and.......... What makes you sure that he'd separate them and give them different tiers of power. Again, don't exaggerate!! Each tailed beast have their own unique sets of abilities.
    I believe Kurama and Gyuki were talking about two different things; the strength derived from strength of character[1], and strength in the form of raw power.

    We saw first hand where Kurama deflected the full power bijudama of six other biju[2]. Moreover, Gyuki's statement about Kurama being strong, alluded to his power being on a different scale[3]. Prior to that, Akatsuki were instructed that they should seal him last as not to upset the balance within the Gedo Mazo[4]. A procedure later followed by Madara[5].

    The biggest exaggeration was your comment about Madara not having chakra amount/volume/quantity that can compete against even 1/10 of the inhuman biju rivaling creatures like Hashirama or the Raikages

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    I believe Kurama and Gyuki were talking about two different things; the strength derived from strength of character[1], and strength in the form of raw power.
    Didn't even refer to that page. Only commented on the notion of a tailed beast being stronger than others possibly being a misconception first created by Kurama, the naughtiest amongst them (sort of like how it is with a family full of brothers about the same age)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    We saw first hand where Kurama deflected the full power bijudama of six other biju[2]. Moreover, Gyuki's statement about Kurama being strong, alluded to his power being on a different scale[3]. Prior to that, Akatsuki were instructed that they should seal him last as not to upset the balance within the Gedo Mazo[4]. A procedure later followed by Madara[5].
    .
    Again, a tailed beast with no master is indefinably inferior to one with a master, especially if said host has PERFECT control.

    Kurama with 100% yin/yang without Naruto is like Hashiram's plaything at least. Not a threat, a child in comparison. Yet 50% Kurama who didn't go full power, his volume of chakra was stated by Hashirama to be comparable. Why? Beast Naruto achieved perfect resonance with Kurama's chakra (according to Kurama, he's the only one).

    For instance, the tailed beast bomb Kurama made that Gyuki was impressed with, Gyuki could and has made something of those massive size http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...0-page-16.html

    It's merely a mater of pumping more 8:2 Black & White chakra to increase it's size.

    Both Gyuki and Kurama have demonstrated relatively comparable feats (though Kurama, through Naruto is stronger). Even rapid fire Bijuu ball made in the eat of battle http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...1-page-13.html

    Kurama is strong. Probably the most overall destructive with it's chakra (and perhaps the wisest of his brothers and maybe the best fighter due to his wisdom)....(Hehe, this reminds me of Darksiders with War, Death, Fury & Strive) but non of the Beast regarded him as outright being stronger. Even Gyuki statement in that panel only attest to the fact that Kurama is strong.

    . Akatsuki's knowledge of the tailed best true powers is practically mostly non existent given what we now know.

    Kurama being the most utilised tailed beast (by the strongest shinobi) for battle due to his very destruction heavy probably gave them this mind-set. It's probably a plot device to make sure the main character doesn't get bombarded with a S classed criminal organisation. This becomes apparent when Madara took all the multiple beast AT ONCE with the same statue http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...62-page-6.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    The biggest exaggeration was your comment about Madara not having chakra amount/volume/quantity that can compete against even 1/10 of the inhuman biju rivaling creatures like Hashirama or the Raikages
    It's not an exaggeration. Uchiha having strong and potent chakra is a statement of fact. This potent chakra makes them utilise the most spectacular techs in respective of how limited their reserve is.

    Though Madara appear to be a cut above other Uchiha in terms of chakra amount, it could easily be that way because his chakra is more potent than other uchiha.

    The Uchiha are fighters with their visual magic and with potent chakra to supply them, not Physical bonefide authentic fighters with large chakra reverse to supply them like the Senji.

    The Riakage's chakra level was comparable to a freakin Tailed Beast. Think about that for a sec, A FREAKIN TAILED BEAST!!!!

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Madara's chakra easily trumps the Raikage's. I thought this much was obvious given how Madara could use jutsu on large scale without getting tired and was able to fight the Senju for an entire day, likely with huge jutsu.

    If you're talking about the power of the chakra, then I'm sure Madara's >>>> Raikage's by miles.

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Didn't even refer to that page. Only commented on the notion of a tailed beast being stronger than others possibly being a misconception first created by Kurama, the naughtiest amongst them (sort of like how it is with a family full of brothers about the same age)
    I referred to that page because you claim the power ranking was something Kurama made up and I'm saying they were talking about two different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Again, a tailed beast with no master is indefinably inferior to one with a master, especially if said host has PERFECT control.
    Their chakra can be channeled and used more effectively through their jinchuuriki, but that is separate from their chakra capacity in their full form. Besides, that notion was based on the assumption that they lacked intelligence, which we now know to be false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Kurama with 100% yin/yang without Naruto is like Hashiram's plaything at least. Not a threat, a child in comparison. Yet 50% Kurama who didn't go full power, his volume of chakra was stated by Hashirama to be comparable. Why? Beast Naruto achieved perfect resonance with Kurama's chakra (according to Kurama, he's the only one).
    Yamato managed to suppress Naruto's four-tailed form, so I think it's fair to assume Kurama with Naruto would still be Hashirama's plaything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    For instance, the tailed beast bomb Kurama made that Gyuki was impressed with, Gyuki could and has made something of those massive size http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...0-page-16.html
    That was a pointless reference. Until Gyuki matches the other buji, you have no way of proving he is as powerful as Kurama. You're also failing to acknowledge the fact that the other biju mounted an attack with all of their combined power and time it took for Kurama to gather the chakra and match them. It is beyond me how you can still claim they have the same power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Kurama being the most utilised tailed beast (by the strongest shinobi) for battle due to his very destruction heavy probably gave them this mind-set. It's probably a plot device to make sure the main character doesn't get bombarded with a S classed criminal organisation. This becomes apparent when Madara took all the multiple beast AT ONCE with the same statue http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...62-page-6.html
    He is the most utilized because he's the most powerful. Madara, who is obsessed with power chose Kurama for a reason. It has been made painfully clear that everything is vulnerable to sealing techniques, so this isn't a minus point for the biju. What's important to note is the order that he sealed them and the instructions Tobi gave Akatsuki.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    It's not an exaggeration. Uchiha having strong and potent chakra is a statement of fact. This potent chakra makes them utilise the most spectacular techs in respective of how limited their reserve is.

    Though Madara appear to be a cut above other Uchiha in terms of chakra amount, it could easily be that way because his chakra is more potent than other uchiha.

    The Uchiha are fighters with their visual magic and with potent chakra to supply them, not Physical bonefide authentic fighters with large chakra reverse to supply them like the Senji.

    The Riakage's chakra level was comparable to a freakin Tailed Beast. Think about that for a sec, A FREAKIN TAILED BEAST!!!!
    It most definitely is an exaggeration. Biju are living forms of chakra, so for Madara to stabilize his chakra and create the Perfect Susanoo, a manifistation of chakra of equal scale, it is clear his chakra capacity is in the same category.

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    At least you gave up addressing the Akatsuki lack of knowledge on the Bijuu part (Progress, my Life, I love you). But now I've gotta put an end to this specific thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    I referred to that page because you claim the power ranking was something Kurama made up and I'm saying they were talking about two different things.
    It was something he made up! Given evidence attest to my statement that it was a silly misconception that slowly pierced the heart of the shinobi.

    It seemed Hashirama didn't consider their strength any different enough to not distributed the 1 tailed to the sand, the least resources village, and the 8th to the lightning, the most resourceful. But I'll get to this point more later.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Their chakra can be channeled and used more effectively through their jinchuuriki, but that is separate from their chakra capacity in their full form. Besides, that notion was based on the assumption that they lacked intelligence, which we now know to be false.
    Their chakra can be channelled and used more effectively and is stronger.

    To deny it being stronger through a host that has perfect control is to deny the subsequent links to be false.

    1) http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...17-page-8.html The sensory ninja not being about to tell the difference between Kurama's chakra and Naruto's chakra as it is fundamentally a compound mixture of both not just merely a mixture in the same body, hence it's stronger.

    2) To deny it's not stronger is the equivalent of announcing that Kurama was full of shit for uttering proudly that Naruto achieved perfect form or "resonance" with his chakra. http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...18-page-7.html

    In that same page, the volume he channelled was commented to be frightening. Hashirama even compared it to his own http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...5-page-11.html
    And that was when Naruto only desired to power up the alliance and could (and did) power up even greater even later on.

    Oh, did I neglect to mention that he was still missing another 50% of Kurama at this particular instance?

    The original Japanese translation complements this even more so.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Yamato managed to suppress Naruto's four-tailed form, so I think it's fair to assume Kurama with Naruto would still be Hashirama's plaything.
    Yamato, an inferior failed copy of Hashirama managed to supressed 4 tailed Naruto in berserker mode with his inferior DNA and with an inferior tech.

    Madara attempted the same shit but with number one dragon restraining method--The dragon that supressed Kurama in the past with nothing but it's touch--and thought it would significantly control Naruto's performance, Naruto who btw was still just acclimatizing with the deepness of Kurama's power.

    However, Naruto resisted that dragon, fought it with his fist and eventually bat the dragon's supressing/absorbing powers like he had no business with it. What worked perfectly well against the Beasts without perfect Hosts isn't gonna work in the same light against the Beasts with perfect hosts. Another example is MS genjustu. Young Obito controlled Kurama with it, but right now that Kurama is synced with Naruto as a perfect host? Pfft, he'd get the Lariat treatment Killerbee gave Sasuke.

    Gyuki, a tailed beast controlled by Hashirama even said the wooden binding Dragon is as effective as Hashirama's http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...10-page-5.html so IN B4 you pull the you know what card.

    The job of resisting becomes easier when Naruto's resonance with Kurama becomes even deeper as it has every time he thereafter fought together with Kurama. First time it was a 5 mins time limit at full form, then it was about 8 mins and now he can stay in Kurama beast mode for longer.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    That was a pointless reference. Until Gyuki matches the other buji, you have no way of proving he is as powerful as Kurama. You're also failing to acknowledge the fact that the other biju mounted an attack with all of their combined power and time it took for Kurama to gather the chakra and match them. It is beyond me how you can still claim they have the same power.
    I lol'd at this

    *Where do I start.....* How about I say you have no way of proving otherwise either (like say with an on-panel page denoting the legitimacy of your words). The panel you initially brought up to prove so didn't prove it in the first place. It merely attest to the fact that Kurama is indeed a powerful beast.

    Kurama probably having the most destructive force (probably his specialty like Kokuo, the 5 tailed phsycially being the strongest especially with his boil/stream release) doesn't equate to being the most powerful.

    If 9>8>7>6.........1, even at 50%, then one tail wouldn't have bothered with that competitive side of his always opposing Kurama as Kurama was "tiers" (as someone mentioned before) inferior. It also means, the Sage wasn't a supporter of equality but a practitioner of prejudice, favouritism and of course inequality. That is detrimental to his believes and the character we've established of him.

    And the sand (the village who would need the beast the most) wouldn't have accepted the 1 tailed from Hashirama, and Hashirama being the compassionate man that he is wouldn't have offered the 1 tailed Beast who is supposedly < 2 < 3 < 4 < 5 < 6 < 7 < 8 < 50% 9 < 100% 9.

    .......................................................

    Now here's an authentic unadulterated on-panel--through speech and display of feats--fact.


    The Beast are stronger through a host than by themselves. Through a host, their chakra becomes one (remember Killerbee's lesson?) and through a perfect host, they complement each other's strengths, intelligence and fighting prowess than their closest obsessive girlfriend, and through a perfect host, both beast and man or woman able to metamorphose each of their individual limits and booster each other's power.

    Through a perfect host whose chakra is strong and mighty like the exceptional talents in Uchiha clan, plentiful like the experienced veterans of the Senju clan or remarkably special like some in the Uzumaki clan, the beasts themselves are manifested on the surface as superior.

    In Naruto's case, Kushina's special Uzumaki traits (as Kurama puts it) made it so that only Naruto (according to Kurama) could bond that deeply with him or have that kind of resonance with him and his power.

    Another fact closely related to the above I want to touch is the actuality of chakra limitations a person or a Beast is subjected to more so when they fight merely as individuals than as partners.

    A tailed Beast can run out of chakra. Allow it destroy mountains all day with rapid fired Bijuuballs and eventually he/she would run out of steam. In order to gain back the reserves lost, a tailed beast built chakra by concentration much like any shinobi would. However, it's disadvantageous in battle to stop and concentrate for more oomph, and so a perfectly partnered Beast has a friend to rely on while the beast builds chakra.

    Kurama did this for Naruto multiple times. He did so prior to the very moment Naruto discovered Sage mode can effectively combat Obito's Transcendent Sage mode.

    Kurama did it in the lastest couple of chapters when the 5 tailed, Kokuo maximized Naruto's chakra for intensive physical strength by pushing his chakra to the boiling point and have Kurama restore it.

    Killerbee, being a perfect host, had done with his partner, the Gyuki multiple times.

    And Naruto is now a chakra control freak due to his vast experience with Chakra manipulation in battle. He can now have an entire army have his chakra by perfectly synchronising his with theirs (though that's one of Naruto Uzumaki's kekkei genkai) in order to increase their chakra, boost the power of their techs and body. http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...18-page-7.html The process reminds me of the relationship between an Enzyme, the Substrate and the Product.

    There's just soooooooo..........ooooo many things that could be said about this particular subject of how Beast and Host in perfect unity complement each other's chakra, power, intelligence. Another is how an individual with powerful chakra--supposedly more powerful (not plentiful) than a lone Beast--is greatly benefited as he could now SPAM ridiculously out of the world techs--which he/she couldn't do prior as this individual had lower reserves--with the lowest of difficultly as the freakin tailed Beast removes the area of weakness.

    An individual with fantastic chakra control is benefited with a perfect partnered Beast on the inside as this individual can maximize the efficiently of the chakra of the beast. Honestly, just read my first post concerning this topic, I hate redundantly repeating myself in this fashion (I make mistakes in writing that way).


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    He is the most utilized because he's the most powerful. Madara, who is obsessed with power chose Kurama for a reason. It has been made painfully clear that everything is vulnerable to sealing techniques, so this isn't a minus point for the biju. What's important to note is the order that he sealed them and the instructions Tobi gave Akatsuki.
    Madara needed raw power to fight Hashirama. Susanoo provided the defense. It would have made no sense for Madara to retrieve another beast who specialises in defense, subsequently making him incompetent to fight Hashirama's assaults of destructive force.

    Wait a sec...I just realised that you didn't give up on the Akatsuki's limited knowledge of the tailed beast? Damn, progression, my love, my life, why'd you do this to me

    Again look at the page Madara ripped the entirety of the tailed beasts and sealed them in the statue all at the same time. I wonder how you could even speak against this glaring obvious reality that sealing them one by one is actually irrelevant at this point


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    It most definitely is an exaggeration. Biju are living forms of chakra, so for Madara to stabilize his chakra and create the Perfect Susanoo, a manifistation of chakra of equal scale, it is clear his chakra capacity is in the same category.
    See the above.

    And you gave me the biggest laugh just now about PS equating the Bijuu in chakra capacity. If that preposterous notion were true, EMS Sasuke has comparable chakra with the Bijuu and every other Uchiha also (like Itachi, one of the least competent shinobi in terms chakra reserves) would have Bijuu like volume with EMS. This is the same EMS Sasuke that was shitting his pants in envy that Naruto could control chakra of ridiculous magnitude, even when Naruto was just warming up.

    No! Just no!! The very idea is unfathomable and seemingly makes you the one exaggerating here.


    Speaking of exaggeration, I wasn't trying to exaggerate and I'll quote myself to show why.

    "Uchiha having strong and potent chakra is a statement of fact."

    "This potent chakra makes them utilise the most spectacular techs in respective of how limited their reserve is" This is a fact.


    "The Uchiha are talented fighters with their visual magic and with potent chakra to supply them, not physical bona fide authentic fighters of the body with large chakra reverse to supply them like the Senji." This is a undeniable fact.


    Unless The Sage of the Six paths secretly implanted the reserves of the Senji to the Uchiha (making them a combo of Yin and YANG), then it would seem you're the exaggerator here.

    And if what you say is the case, Ashura (Senji's descendants) only has 50% of the sages power while Indra (Uchiha's descendants) have 100%. So the sage has 150%...........um..what a..second..this equation is mathematically fuckin retarded as it doesn't even make the slightest sense. It's factually BS http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...81-page-7.html
    Last edited by Kay3795; July 26, 2014 at 01:30 AM.
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Honestly, just read my first post concerning this topic, I hate redundantly repeating myself in this fashion (I make mistakes in writing that way).
    At least there's one thing we can agree on. I suggest you employ the old adage, 'quality over quantity'. And while I can appreciate the effort you put into sourcing those links, you failed to reference anything that said a biju is stronger with a host. You only referenced instances where Naruto was able to convert Kurama's chakra into his own i.e. Naruto got stronger. As far as I am aware, Deidara was the only character to claim biju are weaker without a host, a statement we now know to be only a half truth, because biju do have a mind and are actually quite knowledgeable.

    Akatsuki was being led by Obito, whose knowledge of the biju was second only to Madara, Zetsu and Hashirama. Furthermore, Madara and Zetsu already confirmed that there is an order to sealing the biju, which he followed as shown in the order of the panels illustrating their sealing.

    Gyuki's statement is irrelevant because the wooden dragon's absorption jutsu alone was never
    enough; a fact illustrated with Yamato and Hashirama's use of Hokage-Shiki Jijun Jutsu — Kakuan Nitten Suishu and Mokuton: Mokujin no Jutsu respectively, to issue the 'sit' command. The fact that such an obvious point has been omitted from your novel, suggests that you are more concerned with winning a debate than actually addressing the facts and answering the OP's question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    ...(Progress, my Life, I love you). But now I've gotta put an end to this specific thread.
    The exaggeration was the claim that Madara's chakra isn't a tenth of Hashirama and the Raikage's chakra. You can disregard Madara's claim about Perfect Susanoo being on par with the biju and chalk it up to bravado, but Oniki's statement upon witnessing the stabilization of Perfect Susanoo should satify any doubts about where his chakra stands by comparison.

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    At least there's one thing we can agree on. I suggest you employ the old adage, 'quality over quantity'. And while I can appreciate the effort you put into sourcing those links, you failed to reference anything that said a biju is stronger with a host. You only referenced instances where Naruto was able to convert Kurama's chakra into his own i.e. Naruto got stronger. As far as I am aware, Deidara was the only character to claim biju are weaker without a host, a statement we now know to be only a half truth, because biju do have a mind and are actually quite knowledgeable.
    I wonder how long you can keep up this pseudo-certain style of writing? I'll just indulge myself in repetition for a tad bit in replying.

    The beast are stronger through a perfect host than by themselves. This is a statement of fact complimented by multiple exemplification of feats outright denoting said fact.

    Through a host they bolster each others strengths, intelligence and powers. Uzumaki Kushina's blood perambulated through her son so much so that her son, Naruto obtained "resonance" with Kurama's chakra. The Beast are beings of chakra, and so an individual able to accomplish resonance with that chakra effectively makes it strongers. What do you suppose the word resonance connotes? It was explicitly stated to be a perfected synchronisation between Beast and Man. They've synthesize chakras (hence cloud sensory ninja couldn't even tell the difference between Naruto's chakra and Kurama's chakra).

    The relationship a perfectly partnered beast share with his or her host is like that of two elements or mixtures chemically interacting with each other to create a compound, not just a mixture of two elements in the same body. This was evident also by explanations Killerbee gave Naruto denoting that fact which you seem to be ignoring for whatever reason.

    ........................................................................................................................................................................

    Naruto doesn't only amplify Kurama's chakra with his only but also with his Sage chakra much like EMS Sasuke amplifies Susanoo with Jugo's false sage mode. It doesn't affect full beast mode and the bijuu mode's chakra isn't separate from the host in the way you confidently put it (that's something you undoubtedly pulled right out of your ass).

    And like Fukasaku said, Sage mode amplifies all forms of combat. It heighten the users senses, it skyrockets the potency of it users chakra making it more dangerous (not more plentiful but more powerful) and it increases the users jutsus powers, reach and effectiveness. It metamorphoses everything about the user.

    The Bijuu Sage mode Naruto transformation took Naruto into another realm of power. http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...46-page-7.html
    http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...46-page-9.html

    Perfect unity between Beast and Man in mind, chakra, body and sprit is also the reason Killerbee could also use this http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...66-page-6.html http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...66-page-7.html One of "Bee's sealing techs" as Gyuki puts it.

    What else don't you understand about a Beast in perfect synchronisation with his/her host?

    ...............................................................................................................................................................

    Now I dare you to repeat your former comment about a perfect synchronised beast/host's chakra being "separate from their chakra capacity in their full form" with the above glaring examples pointing out the obvious contradiction. Some BS you seemingly fabricated to mask the reality.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Akatsuki was being led by Obito,
    Akatsuki was an organisation formulated by Nagato and his pals and lead by him and his pals but manipulated in some light by Obito. It was under Nagato's influence that the members came together. Obito joined Akatsuki and used them to reap the benefits, but the original creator was Nagato and his pals, and the leader was Pein/Nagato. Though that's besides the point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    whose knowledge of the biju was second only to Madara, Zetsu and Hashirama. Furthermore, Madara and Zetsu already confirmed that there is an order to sealing the biju, which he followed as shown in the order of the panels illustrating their sealing.
    Whose knowledge was second to Madara in the things of Bijuu indeed, hence Madara thought the Dragon creature would control Kurama/Naruto significantly right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Gyuki's statement is irrelevant because the wooden dragon's absorption jutsu alone was never
    enough; a fact illustrated with Yamato and Hashirama's use of Hokage-Shiki Jijun Jutsu — Kakuan Nitten Suishu and Mokuton: Mokujin no Jutsu respectively, to issue the 'sit' command.
    Let me reiterate what I talked about in my previous post. According to Madara who fought Hashirama multiple times, the Dragon bind Kurama in the past. Simple as ABC.

    Hashirama didn't require his hand to be effective. In fact, the hand seal was something else entirely but I'll get to that shortly.

    A BIJUU--a being that have lived since the times of the SOTSP and have more knowledge than 99.99% of Narutouniverse through experience--who was bind BY HASHIRAMA in the past gaging the effectiveness of the jutsus used against him and telling us it was like Hashirama's or it was as effective as Hashirama's has more credibility than what any outsider could utter, so Gyuki's assessment is anything but irrelevant http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...10-page-5.html

    In the first place, Hahirama used the palm of the different wood creature thingy while Madara used the Dragon on top of the wood creature whatever-it's-called.

    The Dragon immobilises/binds/restrains the Beast and absorbs their chakra (this dragon works on humans who have no Beast, it works on every creature evident when Hashirama used it to immobilise Madara during the 4 ninja world war) http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...57-page-5.html .

    The palm of that giant wood thingy specifically puts the Beast to sleep. It would be akin to controlling a Perfectly partnered beast with MS genjustu. It couldn't work and it wouldn't work against Kurama/Naruto and Killerbee/Gyuki as their partners would wake em up from the slumber.

    I should have been clear as to what I'm talking about, but the palm and dragon are two jutsus with different functions.

    Now here's another fact. Akatsuki never attempted sealing all the Bijuu as the same time as they were under the misconception-I say misconception as their theory or what they perceived true was proven false--that the statue would crumble; however, Madara, whose knowledge was superior to Obito ripped the Bijuu and sealed them into the statue all at the same time without worrying whether or not it'll crumble and it didn't crumble.

    What crumbled was Akatsuki's theory or perceived reality. It crumbled in the face of true reality, simple as. And the reality is that the Gezo mado statue sealed the Beast all at once without any interval and it without it crumbling in the process.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    The fact that such an obvious point has been omitted from your novel, suggests that you are more concerned with winning a debate than actually addressing the facts and answering the OP's question.
    Um...the OP's question has been answered. Quantity VS Quality. It's just that you don't see it that way apparently hence we're having this debate (duh). Though I'm a bit distraught about your comment concerning "with winning a debate".

    In the first place what do you think a debate is?

    It imperative that you understand that it's non of your business what people's propagative are in participating in a thread purposed for reviewing another's published work, discussing that work, reporting what they feeling relevant about said work, critique and parody the product.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    The exaggeration was the claim that Madara's chakra isn't a tenth of Hashirama and the Raikage's chakra. You can disregard Madara's claim about Perfect Susanoo being on par with the biju and chalk it up to bravado, but Oniki's statement upon witnessing the stabilization of Perfect Susanoo should satify any doubts about where his chakra stands by comparison.
    Saying Madara has 1/10 of a Bijuu level chakra in amount is a lot more generous than you make it seem. I could even utter the reverse by saying it is an exaggeration that Madara even has 1/10 of the Bijuu and you wouldn't be able to oppose that statement with a concrete rebuttal saying otherwise from the Manga.

    Do you have any clue as to how monstrous the chakra of the tailed Beasts are? Allow they to flex chakra (not a technique) and they're destroy a lay waste to a massive area (like an entire forest) THAT'S JUST WITH CHAKRA!! And the Raikage apparently has comparable amount when he amps up his chakra to maximum.

    Part one genins chakra quantity were on a level with Itachi's. Think about that for a second................

    The newbie genins have chakra comparable to freaking Uchiha Itachi (whose chakra amount is inferior to Kakashi's) yet those genins run out of chakra utilising basic/adequate level jutsus in no time at all. But Itachi utilises some of the most advanced techs of his world with smaller difficulty. Why? Chakra control and potency (and his uchiha traits enhancing his potency).

    Uchiha Itachi's Chakra is potent, I can't imagine him being unable to frighten the little children genins--who have comparable amount of chakra to his--with him flexing his chakra alone.

    It's the same with Sarutobi vs Orochimaru & EDO. Sarutobi's and Orochimaru have relatively low reserves but their chakra were so heavy, the stage they fought in was shaking and roof coverture were cracking, and they're able to utilise the most advanced techs. Kabuto of the recent arc also commented on the potency of Orochimaru's chakra, and how it was bolstering his techs incredibly.

    Part 1 Naruto materialising his chakra at full power couldn't do any of that. His chakra wasn't capable of making newbies like part one Neji, Sasuke, Lee, Kiba, Shikamaru, Garra and etc be frightened nor could it stun them even through his amount is superior to Orochimaru's, Sarutobi's and Itachi's.

    The same with Uchiha Madara.

    You neglected to mention that Madara's chakra was amplified by Kabuto's DNA alteration (Hashirama's implants) and his chakra was consistently restored with EDO (that's why Itachi could use Susanoo for as long as he wanted until he used Inazumi).

    Now, I've answered your questions. I'd like you to answer my.

    Is EMS Sasuke's (who could bring PS up multiple times, meaning multiple Bijuu level quantity of chakra according to you) chakra comparable to a Bijuu simply because he had the EMS?

    Do the Uchiha secretly have the YANG of the Sage not only the Yin while the Senju only have the Yin? If so, show me with panels please.
    Last edited by Kay3795; August 02, 2014 at 04:16 PM.
    "Sasuke has never been selfish, he's only been self-centered"

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    firstly, Madara has more chakra than Raikage; most likely. Madara's chakra is more potent than Raikage's; surely.

    Finally, what would one do with "more" chakra anyway? nobody runs out of it nowadays.
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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Kaguya does... which is stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    :yawn

    Are people still denying Madara's chakra >>>>>>>>>>>>> Raikage's chakra by miles?

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    I wonder how long you can keep up this pseudo-certain style of writing? I'll just indulge myself in repetition for a tad bit in replying.
    Quality vs Quantity!? Who said that? Your posts are so long-winded I honestly don't know what you're debating anymore. I don't even understand why you're talking about every Uchiha that ever lived when I'm talking about Madara.

    It was told that even before acquiring Hashirama's cellls, Madara fought Hashirama & co. for 24hrs; a feat achieved by shear quantity of chakra. Please do utter the reverse, but when you do just be sure to find documentation of the Raikage or anyone else for that matter, performing feats that exceed Madara's. Put Perfect Susanoo aside and compare. Sandaime Raikage fought and drew with Gyuki. Rinnegan Madara's shadow floored all nine biju and he tanked their tail stomp. Sandaime Raikage fought 10,000 opponents for three days? Highly unlikely, but in any event both Sasuke and Madara have shown the skill to decimate an army of fodder. So with that said, I'm going to ignore all of your replies relating to Madara unless they contain references that support your claim that Madara's chakra < 1/10 Hashirama and Raikage

    Akatsuki may have been formed by Nagato but its activities were definitely determined by Obito / Zetsu. So to say they knew nothing about the biju is quite a stretch. The order doesn't seem to matter much up until Hachibi and Kyuubi, but the sealing has been consistent with what has been said about their power and the Gedo Mazo. Besides, I don't even know why this is relevant anymore.

    I am not so unreasonable, I just request that you post a link that supports your claim. I retract my statement about kurama's biju mode not being affected. However, I disagree that Naruto was able to defeat Madara's Mokuton: Mokuryū no Jutsu, as it was Guy's Hirudora that saved both Naruto and Bee. If the host's control was absolute then Yagura wouldn't have been manipulated by Sharingan genjutsu for so long nor would Sasuke feel the need to shield Naruto from the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Again, I don't even know why this is relevant anymore.

    You're right the OP's question has been answered, which is why I shall take my leave.
    Last edited by Dutchy; August 03, 2014 at 11:07 AM.

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    Re: Madara's Chakra vs Raikage's Chakra

    Do I detect a staw-man here by any chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Quality vs Quantity!? Who said that? I don't even understand why you're talking about every Uchiha that ever lived when I'm talking about Madara.
    The manga of course.

    Uchiha = Representatives of Yin, talented and with visual magic and powerful chakra.

    Senji = Representatives of Yang, not as quickly adapted as Yin representatives, but with strong will and their strong body, they develop in due time comparable might or even supremacy of might over Yang representatives as they literally have to push their bodies physique to the utmost limit while Yin reps might is determined my mental/emotional strength with is sometimes circumstantial.

    YIN/YANG http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...0-page-11.html

    http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...2-page-12.html

    http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...1-page-14.html http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...1-page-17.html

    http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...8-page-17.html

    Other examples are scattered throughout the manga stating the exact same thing that it's redundant looking through them. You can do that.

    In the first place, Oonoki seemed supprised that Uchiha Madara was able to stabilise his chakra into that huge warrior chakra construct. However, we know Madara is a YIN representatives. The power of creation through mental energy is something we, the readers, knew about. It doesn't mean he had bijuu like quantity of chakra. He just has strong chakra.

    Now answer my question as it is relevant to pre-initiation of this debate. Does Sasuke and now Uchiha Kakashi or Obito (haha, now they've joined the group) have bijuu-like quantity of chakra--in spite of being representatives of Mental energy with STRONG chakra-- simply because they have EMS?

    Kakashi Hatake, who admittedly stated that he had inferior chakra reserves to part one Naruto is now Kakashi Uchiha Hatake Senji of both Yin and Yang, the copy ninja of the strong and mighty (YIN) but also plentiful and majestic (YANG) bijuu chakra reserves.

    Oh, Sakura probably also now has Bijuu-like chakra reserves as she had way more chakra than Kakashi hence she was more effective in bring back Uchiha Sasuke from the desert dimension, Uchiha Sasuke who apparently also has Bijuu-like chakra reserves even prior to the SAGE Power-up. And now, Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke and Kakashi/Obito, the 4/1/2 people opposing Kaguya all have Bijuu-like chakra reserves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Your posts are so long-winded I honestly don't know what you're debating anymore.
    This isn't a vocal corresponding debate where several members are in a room constrained by time arguing out what they feel relevant, this is a public forum where individuals can freely express their POV on a matter that pique their interest. Being a public forum, you are not obliged to reply to any counter-argument formed against a comment you've made as this is a leisure room that enables us to converse however we please and whenever we desire.
    Essentially, what I'm saying is that you can reply to any comment 100 years after it had being formed if there is still activity in a thread, and you'd get a pass no matter what.

    Hehe, I said however we please but there is still a fundamental condition in debating you ought to upkeep if you want to be taken seriously. Not to reply half-assedly!

    You decided to be a participant of this public forum and partook in this particular debate, so I'd expect that you don't carry the notion that suddenly you can use a poor mans line like "so long-winded I honestly don't know what you're debating anymore" just to escape having to write a counter-argument.

    If the above wasn't your honest intention, then you've done an horrendous convincing otherwise. You simply do not write those words. It paints a picture that you are perhaps too young to participate in a debate.

    There are countless comments made by innumerable members of the Naruto forum section of mangahelpers who had participated in debates and have written about 5x greater than amount you complained to be too long for you.

    So I don't wanna hear a lame mans excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    It was told that even before acquiring Hashirama's cellls, Madara fought Hashirama & co. for 24hrs; a feat achieved by shear quantity of chakra. Please do utter the reverse, but when you do just be sure to find documentation of the Raikage or anyone else for that matter, performing feats that exceed Madara's. Put Perfect Susanoo aside and compare. Sandaime Raikage fought and drew with Gyuki. Rinnegan Madara's shadow floored all nine biju and he tanked their tail stomp. Sandaime Raikage fought 10,000 opponents for three days? Highly unlikely, but in any event both Sasuke and Madara have shown the skill to decimate an army of fodder. So with that said, I'm going to ignore all of your replies relating to Madara unless they contain references that support your claim that Madara's chakra < 1/10 Hashirama and Raikage
    Madara and his uchiha fought for 24 hours? Incredible... The Raikages have Bijuu-like chakra, inhuman stamina that enables them to fight alone, all by themselves, with no backing up and without rest for 3 days and 3 nights

    Massive difference between the feats. The Uchiha and Senji were at war. During war, their are many variables that alter the war. For instance, the use of ninja tools, healing pads, chakra pills and other supplementary items of that nature. Actually, that 24 hours it took to finally bring down Uchiha Madara, the leader urging his Uchiha follows or members on, is nothing compared to what other wars shinobi have partake in.

    The 3 ninja world war lasted for 10 years http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...4-page-17.html 10 years of fighting. Other great ninja world wars lasted that long also. Even in the recent war, Shinobi are battling left and right zombies and WZs tirelessly longer than 24 hours, then Naruto arrived and speedblitzed the length significantly by coercing the orchestrator of the War to mobilise his treasured troops and head forth with them.

    That 24hrs is nothing compared to a LONE MAN, with no medical ninjas or tools to back his ass, going on a rampage, soloing an army of 1000s of elites for 3 days and nights of non stop fighting (and yes he was alone as he commanded his people to flew so that they might live) http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...3-page-13.html . That's an insane feat. That's a Raikage!

    I've gotta correct you on what you said also about Madara tanking. Madara withstood the tailed beast assault not tank em. He accomplished this partially with Susanoo. He also had Hashirama's Tsunade level auto regen and he had Hashirama's Sage Mode which increased his physical durability. Remember Naruto had a wrestling contest with Kurama in sage mode? http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...58-page-9.html but Madara was still battered up, left in a bloody mess and lost at least a segment of his body (His hand for example was severed in the chaos).


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Akatsuki may have been formed by Nagato but its activities were definitely determined by Obito / Zetsu. So to say they knew nothing about the biju is quite a stretch. The order doesn't seem to matter much up until Hachibi and Kyuubi, but the sealing has been consistent with what has been said about their power and the Gedo Mazo. Besides, I don't even know why this is relevant anymore.
    It wasn't. Nagato originally had his own plans regardless of Obito joining him or not, and should he succeed, he would have wiped countries off the map with his nuke jutsu...The world would be rid of every ninja should he succeed in retrieving the Beast. He would have no oppositions as his Rinnegan powers, with his tailed Beasts effectively trumps every Akatsuki members and the military power of the world. Even though Nagato changed his initial plan, he still played his own game, not Obito's game http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...3-page-17.html

    http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...10-page-5.html http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...10-page-6.html

    Again, it was through Nagato that Akatsuki members were put on a leash from doing whatever they wanted. Obito was a man in the shadows who helped Nagato and thought he had everything figured out. But that wasn't the case, hence Konan was long ready to put him to sleep should the time arise. http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...10-page-2.html
    600 Billion explosive bombs in the butt (Still puzzled by those numbers)


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    I am not so unreasonable, I just request that you post a link that supports your claim. I retract my statement about kurama's biju mode not being affected. However, I disagree that Naruto was able to defeat Madara's Mokuton: Mokuryū no Jutsu, as it was Guy's Hirudora that saved both Naruto and Bee. If the host's control was absolute then Yagura wouldn't have been manipulated by Sharingan genjutsu for so long nor would Sasuke feel the need to shield Naruto from the Infinite Tsukuyomi.
    Correction, Yugura was theorised to be capable of maybe controlling his Beast but we know that most certainly isn't true as he was controlled by a Obito's MS genjustu http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...58-page-3.html ..Keyword word here, "maybe", connoting perhaps he might or he possibly could. Maybe!

    MS genjutsu was used against Bee and Gyuki said a big no no to that. We know Killerbee was a perfect host as opposed to Yugura who was controlled. Now Naruto is as well.

    Sasuke saying Naruto shouldn't step out of his susanoo because RinneganSharingan genjutsu (which is different from a mere MS sharingan gen) would control him is also an assumption like the Akatsuki's assumption about needing to seal the beast in the order of tails so that the statue won't crumble (I'm still scratching my head that you didn't realise that was a plot point to keep Naruto, the MC, who still wasn't strong enough to fight all of Akatsuki at that time, ALIVE). There's no way he'd know for sure if the Sage's chakra wouldn't reject the effects like it rejected Kagura's hold http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...0-page-13.html and there's no way to know whether or not the 9 separate Bijuus inside Naruto wouldn't bust him out of the effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    Again, I don't even know why this is relevant anymore
    LMAO!! You were the one who persistently stuck with the misconception that Akatsuki absolutely had to seal the Beast in order of least tails to the most tails with interval during sealing to prove that 9>8>7>6>5>4>3>2>1 in power--otherwise the Statue would "crumble" right?

    Well, Madara basically gave the middle finger to that notion and decided to seal every beast into the statue at the same time without any interval, proving Akatsuki's initial theory to be false. ALL 9 TAILED BEAST SEALED AT ONCE AT THE SAME TIME.

    The wood dragon is a different tech to the sealing palm tech. The dragon binds/immobilises/retrains and absorbs chakra from any being. They could be Man and they could be Beast. You also didn't show the whole story. In a few pages later, Naruto forced his way out of the dragon's hold http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...8-page-15.html
    It's the same Dragon that bind Madara for Naruto's SM Chou FRS to hit Madara (I've shown you the panel when this happend).

    The sealing tech literally puts the beast to sleep. Good luck attempting that when a partner is there to wake em up. Or should I say partners as Naruto now as a total of 9 beast inside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchy View Post
    You're right the OP's question has been answered, which is why I shall take my leave.
    Have a wonderful day

    And should you reply, don't do it half-assedly if you want to be taken seriously.
    Last edited by Kay3795; August 15, 2014 at 08:21 AM.
    "Sasuke has never been selfish, he's only been self-centered"

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