Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (7/14/14 - 7/20/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: One Piece 753 by cnet128 , Bleach 589 by cnet128 , Gintama 503 by Bomber D Rufi
New Reply
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 8 9 10 11 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 164

Thread: Secondary Elements Explanation

  1. #136
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,335
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Well, as I have said before, I think that lightning chakra simply cancels earth chakra(based on the fight between sasuke and gaara). In a more scientific way, you could say that the temporal negative charge earth gets from lightning makes a doton user unable to control earth.

    In real live water can destroy rock and even walls. As fluff pointed out, water can erode earth and rocks. But not only that, even raindrops can cause erotion over long periods of time. Also, on discovery channel I have seen plenty of times how water with enough preasure can break bricks and walls.
    Although that is more "actual" science, I think that the focus on which water beats earth is not actually scientic but rather an ancient oriental point of view. Isnt there a saying " be like the rock on the river, the river constantly hits but the rock does not move an inch"? Maybe the advantage earth has on water goes along the lines of that.

    As for wind > lighting, I dont no, its way to wierd. As we have seen with sasuke, lightning is used in mid range and sometimes is long range and has some cutting capacity(as seen with chidori and variations). Maybe rather than wind being stronger in the traditional sense (such as water > fire), wind is simply better in short-mid range than lightning. To put it simply, wind doesnt affect lightning, but rather is simply overall better in short-mid range therefore wind > lightning. Another way to put it would be "wind is sharper than lightning".

    That would also follow the manga's current thrend, in which naruto gets a kick in the groin every time he works his ass of for a new technique(since naruto wouldnt get a traditional advantage but rather a technical one).

  2. #137
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Forever_Melody's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Where there's hockey & poutine...
    Country
    Canada
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    3,866
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Well if you want to look at it from an oriental point of view, lightning is associated with storms in Asian culture and wind does technically move storm clouds away, effectively "canceling" their effect on an immediate area under the clouds(although the storm just ends up somewhere else lol ).

    But umm yeah, don't try seeking too much logic into Kishi's elemental wheel. He probably hasn't thought of all the possibilities himself.

    I mean, he has left out many elemental compounds and most of them would be harder to picture(ex: Lightning+Fire or Fire+Wind)

  3. #138
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    We know that Roshi (Yonbi vessel) was able to utilize Youton, or Lava, techniques, because of his bijuu. Yonbi was shown as a fire-breathing monkey in the newest artbook, and we know Roshi is fro Iwa. Seeing as Youton is a mix of Earth and Fire, is it possible that *all* Jinchuuriki have a secondary element related to their bijuu? For example, could Gaara and Shuukaku's control of sand be a mix of Earth and Wind, as Shuukaku was seen using mainly Wind attacks?

  4. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  5. #139
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fighting for the Living
    Country
    The Wall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,812
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by jm2191544 View Post
    We know that Roshi (Yonbi vessel) was able to utilize Youton, or Lava, techniques, because of his bijuu. Yonbi was shown as a fire-breathing monkey in the newest artbook, and we know Roshi is fro Iwa. Seeing as Youton is a mix of Earth and Fire, is it possible that *all* Jinchuuriki have a secondary element related to their bijuu? For example, could Gaara and Shuukaku's control of sand be a mix of Earth and Wind, as Shuukaku was seen using mainly Wind attacks?
    I wonder what the Kyuubi's element would be though? I'm guessing it would be either wind or fire, water, earth, and lightning just don't make sense with him.

    But the Yondi thing makes sense, and so does the all Biju have their own element. I mean humans have elements, and summons seem to as well, so why not Biju?
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  6. #140
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Kuranzyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In your house, making noise!
    Country
    Netherlands
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    245
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    The Kyubi probably has a Yin-yang structure in its elemental recomposition. The Kyubi's chakra is so vastly different from normal chakra that it cannot be compared to an "Elemental" one.

  7. #141
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    13,679
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    My oppinion is that every ninja has the potential to unlock all elements. Here's why:
    The elemental affinities IMO are a natural occurence, and i think for each person has a different order. For example kakashi: his main affinity is lightning, then probably water and earth. He could learn jutsus from other elements as well, but for him fire and wind affinities are so weak it is virtually impossible to develope them.
    Naruto's main element is wind just like asuma's.That means that their strongest affinity was towards wind.
    So third fourth fifth elemental affinities are very weak that is why no normal ninja was capable to develope techs with all 5 elements.
    Most geniuses without a kekkei genkai like kakashi,sandaime,oro,jiraiya were able to use 3 elements not more, so i think the number of affinities powerful enough to be explored is 3 for normal geniuses.
    Of course nagato is a different story, but not entirely. His affinities are powerful enough for each element that's why it is said he can use all 5.
    About bloodlines:in this case is not about affinities, it is about the genes which allow them to use just the 2 elements, or combine them to create another(hyoton,mokuton,yoton).
    There is the possibility of not having powerful elemental affinities, this might be the case of the Nara, Akimichi, Yamanaka clans, which might use yin/yang chakra though this wasn't explained until now...same thing with genjutsu users.
    In conclusion it is not really a matter of choice, but is a matter of natural affinity.Also IMO the primary element influences the style of a ninja and not the other way around, and a second element can be chosen, but only if the affinity is powerful enough towards the element in question

  8. #142
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Vatican City State
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    32,312
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    All elements could be unlocked, but they can't be used as well if there's no natural affinity, IMO anyway. Naruto can use wind and take it as far as he wants because it's his affinity, but if fire isn't his, then he can't use some of the harder and advanced jutsu with it.

  9. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  10. #143
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Hojinmaru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    276
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    You base that opinion on what facts? Its been clearly stated and argued to death that a ninja can not use all five elements, except for one ninja who's recently died.

  11. #144
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Vatican City State
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    32,312
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    It could be possible though, you never know. Mastering it is different from being able to use all five elements. Nagato could take each of the element to its highest level whereas Kakashi could take raiton to its highest level but still be able to use other elements too, but not as well.

  12. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  13. #145
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    13,679
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hojinmaru View Post
    You base that opinion on what facts? Its been clearly stated and argued to death that a ninja can not use all five elements, except for one ninja who's recently died.
    IMO that is becuz the affinity for fourth,fifth element is weak and would only be usable if huge amounts of time pass

  14. #146
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member kthy0056's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    21
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    355
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Tell me what, is Kakashi Copy Sharingan, who has an arsenal of 1000 jutsus, not capable of using AT LEAST one jutsu from each element?
    What about Kakuzu? He was using all five elements.
    Sarutobi was known as the Professor because he was supposed to know every jutsu from his village. I'm sure that he, as well, during his many years of living, learned using all types of elemental jutsus.

    What's so hard to use elemental jutsus anyway? Sasuke managed to do that as a kid (the big fireball) and as a teenager (chidori).

    The real question is if someone actually needs all of them. Sasuke maxed out his lighting jutsus instead of learning different elemental jutsus. He created Kirin, one of the most powerful techniques from the shinobi world.


    By the way, why do people assume that there is a secondary affinity or something like that?
    Sasuke used fire because that was the signature of Uchiha. Kakashi used water because he was tricking Zabuza, who was an water user.

    Which means that Naruto could learn either a water, earth, fire or lighting jutsu, if he is helped. Just that he is going to learn it harder than a wind jutsu.

  15. #147
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    13,679
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by kthy0056 View Post
    Tell me what, is Kakashi Copy Sharingan, who has an arsenal of 1000 jutsus, not capable of using AT LEAST one jutsu from each element?
    What about Kakuzu? He was using all five elements.
    Sarutobi was known as the Professor because he was supposed to know every jutsu from his village. I'm sure that he, as well, during his many years of living, learned using all types of elemental jutsus.

    What's so hard to use elemental jutsus anyway? Sasuke managed to do that as a kid (the big fireball) and as a teenager (chidori).

    The real question is if someone actually needs all of them. Sasuke maxed out his lighting jutsus instead of learning different elemental jutsus. He created Kirin, one of the most powerful techniques from the shinobi world.
    <hr noshade size="1">
    By the way, why do people assume that there is a secondary affinity or something like that?
    Sasuke used fire because that was the signature of Uchiha. Kakashi used water because he was tricking Zabuza, who was an water user.

    Which means that Naruto could learn either a water, earth, fire or lighting jutsu, if he is helped. Just that he is going to learn it harder than a wind jutsu.
    Sarutobi is a given, but kakashi and especially kakuzu are cheating.At least he was cheating. Sarutobi was a genius,kakashi as well+sharingan.

    But kakashi i think or yamato said learning all five elements is impossible...of course except kakuzu the cheater and nagato the cheater as well.
    Last edited by benelori; August 31, 2009 at 09:32 AM.

  16. #148
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Arctigor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    22
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    139
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    I think a shinobi can use all 5 elements only if they are immortal or something like that. Let's take for ex kakuzu who fought with shodai hokage. He lived enough to unlock all 5 elements. If orochimaru would be alive he would learn and explore new jutsus and unlock all the elements.
    http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1354/36/1354363077873.jpg

  17. #149
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted KnuckleheadedNinja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    IN A MERCILESS STATE OF OBLIVION.
    Country
    Nigeria
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,574
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    I don't remember it been stated that it impossible to use all 5 elements. And i believe if you have the skill and talent you should be able to learn it.

    "Too much hope is the opposite of despair... an overpowering love may consume you in the end."

  18. #150
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Poke-france.
    Country
    United States
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,790
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Learning and mastering an element takes a long time, So most shinobi die before they can get to a fourth or fifth element, Unless they have a shortcut like Kakuzu's technique or Nagato's Rinnegan.

  19. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
New Reply
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 8 9 10 11 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts