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Thread: Secondary Elements Explanation

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkManSharingan32's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleheadedNinja View Post
    he have done more earth jutsu than water.
    I don't think so.

    Water:
    Suijinheki
    Mizu Bunshin
    Suikoudan
    Suiryuuden
    Daibakufu

    Earth:
    Shinjuu Zanshuu
    ?

    I can't think of anything else...
    ~Elemental Manipulation at its Best~

  2. #32
    英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    [...] he used his Raiton Needles because there were multiple things to attack at once.

    Katon Housenka in that situation would have taken Handseals... AND since its just a barrage of mini-fireballs, there chance stands that they wouldnt all be stopped.
    Exactly, his intuitive feel for combat, following the fact that he could use Raiton, gave him the advantage. And Raiton was the choice to use as Sasuke didn't make a forced effort to adapt the quality to his circumstance. Katon would've been burdensome. Raiton fits in that situation like a well placed puzzle piece. It completes Sasuke's view, accents his intent. Heck, it even helps him theorize before one can say he ever meant to.

  3. #33
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ken-Oh's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    He may have been using an earth just when during the bell test for that technique were he pulls naruto under the ground. Theres a simmilar earth Juts called fish projection that the Rain ninja use in the Chunin exam.

  4. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    SO let me see.
    The argument is:

    What ever jutsu you use most, is what your affinity is.

    Regardless of elemental weaknesses and strategy.
    Uh, no. You would think that at least ONE of your most powerful or most used jutsu would have to do with your affinity. Sasuke's top jutsu are ALL lightning.

    So if I were to sum up the argument that Sasuke's affinity is fire, it would be this:

    It doesn't matter that Sasuke has shown time and time again that he prefers to use lightning, he's an Uchiha so he MUST be fire. There is no way someone who is an Uchiha could have an affinity other than fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    Let's also disregard sasuke's explanation as non-sense... even though it's the ONLY piece of Canon evidence actually provided? As well as any "falsities" which you guys have found... still unchecked by Deidara?
    His explanation was for how he knew he could disarm the C4. The Douton hand seals did not come until after he had thrown the needles.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    Uchiha have natural Fire Jutsu Affinities.
    Sasuke = Uchiha.
    Uchiha naturally being able to use fire doesn't mean that every Uchiha's main element is fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    Lightning is easier to manipulate, and therefore is more than just pure offense/defense (unlike Fire).
    You just made this up.

  5. #35
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkManSharingan32's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by ornis View Post
    Exactly, his intuitive feel for combat, following the fact that he could use Raiton, gave him the advantage. And Raiton was the choice to use as Sasuke didn't make a forced effort to adapt the quality to his circumstance. Katon would've been burdensome. Raiton fits in that situation like a well placed puzzle piece. It completes Sasuke's view, accents his intent. Heck, it even helps him theorize before one can say he ever meant to.
    Yes. And all of that still does not point to Lightning as his original element affinity.

    Just that Sasuke has amazing analytical ability, and the jutsu knowhow to adapt to nearly every situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    Uchiha naturally being able to use fire doesn't mean that every Uchiha's main element is fire.

    Here's the problem.

    "Main element" you assume to be analogous to "affinity".
    I've said before... Affinity means nothing, it is only the "predisposed" element that a ninja finds "easier" to convert from chakra.

    With training and time... an elite ninja can master more than one element, and Sasuke has done that with Lightning.

    A ninja can DECIDE what element he/she wants to be their main-element.

    And due to the situation of the battle... that can even change.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post


    You just made this up.
    Maybe so.
    But it's a attempt to show WHY Sasuke would choose to beef up his Lightning arsenal with so many Utility Jutsu.

    Makes sense though... doesn't it?
    Last edited by DarkManSharingan32; April 30, 2008 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    ~Elemental Manipulation at its Best~

  6. #36
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ken-Oh's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Okay lets settle this right here.
    Sauske's elemental affinity is Cheddar but he learnt Edam as his second in order to counter Itachi's Cottage cheese Jutsu.
    Until Kakashi or Sauske mentions otherwise im going to believe his affinity is fire, you can feel free to believe its lightning.
    It could go either way until its stated in the manga or a data book, if anime say it doesn't mean squat though XD

    http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...-Pir/gtfo2.jpg
    Last edited by Ken-Oh; April 30, 2008 at 03:22 PM.

  7. #37
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken-Oh View Post
    in fairness he uses them at a higher level than fire as well but this does not provide evidence for it being his affinity.
    This is exactly why his main element is lightning. He uses it at a higher level than he does fire. If fire were his affinity, you would think he would take some time to develop at least ONE fire jutsu. All Sasuke does is spit out the same old Uchiha standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    "Main element" you assume to be analogous to "affinity".
    I've said before... Affinity means nothing, it is only the "predisposed" element that a ninja finds "easier" to convert from chakra.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/113/06/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/113/07/

    How do you think Kakashi found out that Sasuke is the same type as him? You would think he gave him chakra paper and it crumpled. Sasuke's affinity is lightning.
    Last edited by Neuroff; April 30, 2008 at 03:20 PM.

  8. #38
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    @ DMS32

    We're concerned with primarily natural elemental/qualitative affinities, not original elemental/qualitative affinities in the argument. Additionally, fire is demonstrated as secondary to lightning in Sasuke's case (a la Kirin). With Kirin, lightning is the primary effect that Sasuke seeks. Fire was used as but a grand seal to complete Kirin.
    Last edited by ornis; April 30, 2008 at 03:23 PM.

  9. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkManSharingan32's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    This is exactly why his main element is lightning. He uses it at a higher level than he does fire. If fire were his affinity, you would think he would take some time to develop at least ONE fire jutsu. All Sasuke does is spit out the same old Uchiha standards.


    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/113/06/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/113/07/

    How do you think Kakashi found out that Sasuke is the same type as him? He gave him chakra paper and it crumpled. Sasuke's affinity is lightning.
    I always thought he meant that figuratively.
    Kakashi sees himself in Sasuke.. the Kakashi before Obito changed him.

    You mean to tell me that if Sasuke had another Affinity Kakashi wouldn't train him?

    Hogwash.
    Last edited by DarkManSharingan32; April 30, 2008 at 03:27 PM.
    ~Elemental Manipulation at its Best~

  10. #40
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted KnuckleheadedNinja's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    I don't think so.

    Water:
    Suijinheki
    Mizu Bunshin
    Suikoudan
    Suiryuuden
    Daibakufu

    Earth:
    Shinjuu Zanshuu
    ?

    I can't think of anything else...
    yeah he got more water jutsu but that doesn't mean that is his affinity for all we know he have copy them. He have been using earth since the first bell test.

    "Too much hope is the opposite of despair... an overpowering love may consume you in the end."

  11. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkManSharingan32's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by ornis View Post
    @ DMS32

    We're concerned with natural elemental/qualitative affinities, not original elemental/qualitative affinities in the argument. Additionally, fire is demonstrated as secondary to lightning in Sasuke's case (a la Kirin). With Kirin, lightning is the primary effect that Sasuke seeks. Fire was used as but a grand seal to complete Kirin.
    He used fire to create rainclouds and lightning...
    Pretty ingenious, yes.

    But i can't even fathom a way to make a jutsu attack faster than that.

    Especially a Fire jutsu.

    AND REMEMBER

    Sasuke only SPACIALLY CONTROLLED Kirin. (Albeit quite impressively)
    He didn't convert any of the chakra for that attack.


    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleheadedNinja View Post
    yeah he got more water jutsu but that doesn't mean that is his affinity for all we know he have copy them. He have been using earth since the first bell test.
    Ding Ding Ding!

    Exactly my point. Thank you for following my lead this far.
    It's arguable... and that exactly whats going on here. lol
    Last edited by DarkManSharingan32; April 30, 2008 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    ~Elemental Manipulation at its Best~

  12. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    I always thought he meant that figuratively.
    Kakashi she's himself in Sasuke.. the Kakashi before Obito changed him.

    You mean to tell me that if Sasuke had another Affinity Kakashi wouldn't train him?

    Hogwash.
    So you think Kakashi would train Sasuke in an element that he didn't even know he would be able to learn, just because they had a similar personality? Please.

  13. #43
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ken-Oh's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    So you think Kakashi would train Sasuke in an element that he didn't even know he would be able to learn, just because they had a similar personality? Please.
    Go look at the section about Sauske in the first post.

    In most likely a futile attempt to take the topic away from this pointless argument about captain emo, what elemental do you think someone like Shikamaru would have/utilize? His affinity is towards light/dark which hasn't been explained thus far so we don't even know if it realy is an element.

    If light/dark is an element i personaly think he would choose to learn water as it carries various offensive and defensive qualities as well as the manipulation of water sharing a similarity to the way he manipulates his shadow. Thus making it easier for him to aquire and use.

    If light/dark is not an element i think he would carry a natural affinity to earth jutsu. This is because of his clan and how they seem very rooted in nature and also how shadows are constantly connected with earth.

  14. #44
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Here's my take on "affinities and proficiencies". Having an affinity to an element means one is aligned to that element naturally, I.E., born with it. Usually when a ninja learns an B-rank or higher jutsu, it is the same affinity that they are aligned to because it's easier for one to manipulate the element they are already aligned to. I.E., Naruto could not have learned Chidori without first gaining a lightning proficiency; the ability to manipulate his chakra into an electrical current.

    A Proficiency with an element means that one has trained to gain the ability to use jutsu of that element, despite the fact that it is not normally aligned to them. Kakashi is aligned to Lightning, but proficient with water and earth thanks to years of training.

    The Uchiha clan normally are aligned to Fire like Itachi, but Sasuke is aligned to Lightning, hence the reason he specializes in Lightning, as they are the most seamless for him to perform. Sasuke can use Fire seamlessly aswell though, because he trained himself since childhood to learn to do so, not because he is equally aligned to Fire the way he is Lightning. Born with Lightning. Trained in Fire.

    Now, I'm sure that the reason Hashirama and Yamato can use Mokuton is because they're both aligned (not proficient) with Water and Earth. Kakashi is proficient with Water and Earth (not aligned), therefore he can't combine the two and create Mokuton.

    Thus, Sasuke can't make a super Lightning+Fire jutsu, IMO. Then again, I could be wrong...Naruto and Yamato combined FRS and a Water jutsu to make a big combination jutsu. Though I also really think that there's a difference between a jutsu made of two elements, and a jutsu that combine two elements to make one new element.

    But yeah, Sasuke's aligned to Lightning, proficient with Fire.

  15. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkManSharingan32's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    So you think Kakashi would train Sasuke in an element that he didn't even know he would be able to learn, just because they had a similar personality? Please.
    Yes.
    Considering Sasuke age when he mastered ALL of his Fire Jutsu, as well as the Sharingan to aid in the learning of the jutsu...

    Sasuke has ALL the tools he needs to effectively learn ANY element if he puts his mind to it.

    Kakashi IDENTIFIES with Sasuke.
    He even tells Sasuke WHY he taught him the Chidori here:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/177/07/

    It actually starts a page before that... but... thats the most pertinent part.
    ~Elemental Manipulation at its Best~

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