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Thread: Secondary Elements Explanation

  1. #61
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Am I the only one that thinks nin from the Fire Country should have atleast a limited knowledge of Katon? I mean, if Shikamaru could make fire when he wanted, he could make shadows when he wanted. Get it?

    But yeah, as far as Yin/Yang goes, maybe they could be considered types of chakra that are only used to manipulate other forms of chakra? Like, offensive jutsu are saturated with Yang chakra, used to attack, or Yin chakra being used for medical jutsu and summons or jutsu that effect one's own body?

    I've absolutely no proof whatsoever for this claim. Just speculation.

  2. #62
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ken-Oh's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by ornis View Post
    Let's not lead into a flame here.

    And yes, I think Pain may have that ability. But, I'm not sure Shika would have the same dexterity that Pain is blessed to have. I turn to the Rinnegan as the possible source for Pain's adroit potential--if Pain can do all the things I assume. His efforts, as alluded to in my post, do imply that he can do almost anything imaginable.

    So your saying Yin/Yang is the foundation of everything and Rinnegan enables Pein to see/use that Yin/Yang.
    In other words its the Matrix and Yin/Yang is the bits of code and Pein is Neo but evil?
    Does should like somthing Kishi would do at this point, he's lost his originality.
    Last edited by Ken-Oh; April 30, 2008 at 04:39 PM.

  3. #63
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Lol, well that's one way of looking at it. Or, maybe they represent good and evil? One meant for Kinjutsu and things related to the dead and manipulating them, the other...for healing and summoning? Again, just speculation. But I meant what I said about Fire Country nin using fire. It makes total sense to me.

  4. #64
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted KnuckleheadedNinja's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken-Oh View Post
    Are you just some kind of noob? Seriously its not like Asuma gave him a pack of cigerates and said "smoke up boyo you can use wind now"

    http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...-Pir/gtfo2.jpg
    one question do you even f**king know what noob means. because if you do then you would have seen that nothing in my post infer me been a noob. I was asking a frecking question and if you ain't so blind you would have seen that. Furthermore if you read the manga you would have seen that shikimaru did the same thing asuma(wind manilupation) use to do with his weapon.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/330/14/

    Moderator message by: ornis
    I scratched out the bashing to highlight that it isn't and won't be accepted. Calm yourself down.
    Last edited by ornis; April 30, 2008 at 05:01 PM.

    "Too much hope is the opposite of despair... an overpowering love may consume you in the end."

  5. #65
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken-Oh View Post
    So your saying Yin/Yang is the foundation of everything and Rinnegan enables Pein to see/use that Yin/Yang.
    In other words its the Matrix and Yin/Yang is the bits of code and Pein is Neo but evil?
    Does should like somthing Kishi would do at this point, he's lost his originality.
    Yes, it's funny. Once, I even thought that Pain's bots could share a hybrid mind. I also thought that Pain could control all his bodies to the degree of this:

    Quote Quote:
    [...] my original hopes were for Pein's use of a dummy-network that works as a combined server of chakra and data storage--->registers of many jutsu among them; so upon Pein's greatest adventures, he'd have six times his own efficiency at disposal. Let's imagine all dummies working in sync here... none in stasis...
    ---also stated this once:

    Quote Quote:
    Well let me be random. Could you imagine if Pein worked all along as if in a dream? I enjoy the incredible benefit (that) the possibility presents. I wonder about the psychological impact. This will be interesting if valid. Anyhow, in my use of the tech, the bodies would work as chakra terminals and one would offer or all would share a server. [Either event occurs] depending on the efficiency and security of networking via a revolving spatial feed or static physical (both having protection).
    ---but I scratched the extension of that when it reminded me of the Matrix:

    Quote Quote:
    But then there's the "dream system" idea... Pein can control every bot as he sleeps... let's switch it up... every bot while in stasis is linked to Pein... attributes (chakra, data) included. However---that doesn't feel as original--->The Matrix... scratch that
    Yet, the ideas were ambitious assumptions. Though, we'll only know in time how true they could be.
    Last edited by ornis; April 30, 2008 at 09:03 PM.

  6. #66
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    And it MAY have nothing to do with Lightning... But it does refute your prior reasoning for Kakashi training Sasuke, and teaching him Chidori.
    Yes, Kakashi identifies with Sasuke, but that is not the only reason they are the same type. They both have the Sharingan, and they both have an affinity to lightning.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    Less than two weeks with Sasuke's Sharingan, and prior Elemental knowledge... seems MORE than reasonable to me.

    I think you need to stop underestimating Sasuke... it leaves you unable to comprehend his growth. Not trying to sound pompous, but if you treat Sasuke as an elite ninja with knowledge surpassing most of his classmates, as well as experience moulding an element from chakra... It's not really hard to see that it would take him much less time to learn than if he were being taught the whole concept altogether.
    I really can't even see the point of this any more. The only argument for Sasuke's main affinity being fire is that he is an Uchiha. Forget that he is constantly using lightning, uses it at a much higher level than he does fire, and actually uses fire for the purpose of setting up lightning. This reminds me of the Jiraiya is an Akatsuki spy thread, with random speculation being used as evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleheadedNinja View Post
    one question do you even f**king know what noob means. because if you do then you would have seen that nothing in my post infer me been a noob. I was asking a frecking question and if you ain't so blind you would have seen that. Furthermore if you read the manga you would have seen that shikimaru did the same thing asuma(wind manilupation) use to do with his weapon.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/330/14/
    Shikamaru is actually putting his shadow chakra into the blade, you can see it later when he throws it at Kakuzu and Hidan's shadows.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/332/17/
    Last edited by Neuroff; April 30, 2008 at 04:51 PM.

  7. #67
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleheadedNinja View Post
    one question do you even f**king know what noob means. because if you do then you would have seen that nothing in my post infer me been a noob. I was asking a frecking question and if you ain't so blind you would have seen that. Furthermore if you read the manga you would have seen that shikimaru did the same thing asuma(wind manilupation) use to do with his weapon.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/330/14/

    Moderator message by: ornis
    I scratched out the bashing to highlight that it isn't and won't be accepted. Calm yourself down.

    just to clarify, he didn't add wind to it like asuma did, he added his shadow jutsu into it to extend his shadow grasp...
    Last edited by ornis; April 30, 2008 at 04:58 PM. Reason: fixed quote

  8. #68
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ken-Oh's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleheadedNinja View Post
    one question do you even f**king know what noob means. because if you do then you would have seen that nothing in my post infer me been a noob. I was asking a frecking question and if you ain't so blind you would have seen that. Furthermore if you read the manga you would have seen that shikimaru did the same thing asuma(wind manilupation) use to do with his weapon.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/330/14/

    Moderator message by: ornis
    I scratched out the bashing to highlight that it isn't and won't be accepted. Calm yourself down.
    Shikamaru flows his shadow-based chakra into the blade, you can not only tell by the difference in shading but also when he uses it later on to trap Kakuzu and Hidan in a Shadow Bind.

    Moderator message by: ornis
    I had to remove the commentary on the bash. Please don't comment on personal attacks.
    Last edited by ornis; April 30, 2008 at 04:59 PM. Reason: warning; fixed quote

  9. #69
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleheadedNinja View Post
    one question do you even f**king know what noob means. because if you do then you would have seen that nothing in my post infer me been a noob. I was asking a frecking question and if you ain't so blind you would have seen that. Furthermore if you read the manga you would have seen that shikimaru did the same thing asuma(wind manilupation) use to do with his weapon.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/330/14/

    Moderator message by: ornis
    I scratched out the bashing to highlight that it isn't (and won't be) accepted. Calm yourself down.
    And in your link, Shika implements his affinity--yin recomposition.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/332/17/

    In ch. 316, there is a mentioning of Yin and Yang techniques. Naruto refers to them consecutively (first, Kage Mane; second, Baika no Jutsu)--and Yamato replies consecutively (first, Yin; second, Yang). Seemingly, one requires the Yin affinity to perform Kage Mane; besides, Yin can be a dark, passive, and subsequent quality.

    Kage Mane is dependent on the shadow that light causes a lit object to cast. Adversely, Yang qualities can be derived independent of passive influence. Accordingly, the physicality does not need to be affected, as by light for example. The physicality, in regards to Yang, influences a user's physical state, causes a reaction, and permits energy derivation. Yang qualities involve catalysts. Yin qualities involve reactants. Depending on a constant beam of light shone on Chouji, the bigger Chouji gets, the greater the shadow Shikamaru can make. Kage Mane depends on shadows of an object, and Chouji's body can be one of them. However, the size of Chouji's body depends on how he manipulates the physiological catalysts that affect his body. In that example, Yang is therefore defined, opposing Yin as a quality expressed through physical means (e.g., Baika no Jutsu). Such is an active channel of masculine energy. But, Yin qualities, like shadows, are signs of their physical influences.

    Hence, the release of Baika no Jutsu demands an internal transformation of energy; but, the release of Kage Mane demands the external control of an energy source's "reflection of existence." By being illuminated, an object's shadow affirms that light recognizes the object's presence. Furthermore, the shadowed object regonizes that light has presented itself. Yin depends on those recognitions. So, Yin must be aligned with the Shadow Bind Technique. The following reference just introduces the name of the quality and its dichotomous partner:

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/316/09/
    Last edited by ornis; May 02, 2008 at 10:58 AM. Reason: fixed quote

  10. #70
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ken-Oh's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken-Oh View Post
    Moderator message by: ornis
    I had to remove the commentary on the bash. Please don't comment on personal attacks.
    Fair enough but at least allow me to make the point that he should not retaliate if he can't at least get the facts right. This is a Shonen manga, therfore fairly easy to follow.

  11. #71
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Ken-Oh it seems like if someone does not agree w/ u or ask an honest question that u find incompetent. You attack them and that is messed up. Be more civilized, u r not an animal!!

    As for sasuke's affinity, I belive it is lightning based on kakashi's comments from the previous posts. This here is actual proof written by the author and may be misinterpreted in different way. But alas it is proof and more than just speculations from what u guys have post.

    Neuroff, I agree w/ everything u said. Being a genious or not, it takes a long time to learn ur element, but u can learn it much faster if u have an akin to it.

  12. #72
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted KnuckleheadedNinja's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Quote:
    Well if "you" had the slightest clue what noob meant you'd realise you are one because you asked a stupid question and have just mad an even dumber assumption. Shikamaru flows his shadow-based chakra into the blade, you can not only tell by the difference in shading but also when he uses it later on to trap Kakuzu and Hidan in a Shadow Bind.
    [/QUOTE]

    again if you know what noob means you will know that asking a question doesn't make you a noob? like the great mathematican once said "There are no foolish questions and no man becomes a fool until he has stopped asking questions”/ "No man really becomes a fool until he stops asking questions.” i ask a question and since you so frecking smart all you have to do is answer it. simply as abc. Also this thread is about making asumptions and when someone know something as a fact that you assumed wrong all they have to do is correct you without insulting you maybe if you are not a newbie you will no how it works.
    Last edited by KnuckleheadedNinja; April 30, 2008 at 05:15 PM.

    "Too much hope is the opposite of despair... an overpowering love may consume you in the end."

  13. #73
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ken-Oh's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    Ken-Oh it seems like if someone does not agree w/ u or ask an honest question that u find incompetent. You attack them and that is messed up. Be more civilized, u r not an animal!!

    As for sasuke's affinity, I belive it is lightning based on kakashi's comments from the previous posts. This here is actual proof written by the author and may be misinterpreted in different way. But alas it is proof and more than just speculations from what u guys have post.

    Neuroff, I agree w/ everything u said. Being a genious or not, it takes a long time to learn ur element, but u can learn it much faster if u have an akin to it.
    I have not "attacked" anyone. I made a point out of a foolish question, that is all. Try not to phrase it like i constantly bash people, all i've done in this thread is analyse peoples points and make comments on them.

    Back to the point at hand i read a post were people were discussing the possibile outcome of Nidaime vs Kisame and the subject of Nidaimes second element. Anyone else think he may have tried to learn to use earth in an attempt to obtaib his brothers abilities? Personaly i think he may have used lightning as a second element but thats just based on the sword in the filler arc with that rain ninja.
    Last edited by Ken-Oh; April 30, 2008 at 05:19 PM.

  14. #74
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckleheadeninja View Post
    again if you know what noob means you will know that asking a question doesn't make you a noob? like the great mathematican once said "There are no foolish questions and no man becomes a fool until he has stopped asking questions”/ "No man really becomes a fool until he stops asking questions.” i ask a question and since you so frecking smart all you have to do is answer it. simply as abc. Also this thread is about making asumptions and when someone know something as a fact that you assumed wrong all they have to do is correct you without insulting you maybe if you are not a newbie you will no how it works.
    Let's continue the clarification through PMs. This can sidetrack the thread. I know you are point-making, using the idea of assumptions to support your act. But, the fact that this thread should allow assumptions to be explored and corrected (if need be) is a point that is not also contributing to the thread. Let's be mindful of the total dynamic of on-topicness.
    Last edited by ornis; April 30, 2008 at 05:24 PM.

  15. #75
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted KnuckleheadedNinja's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken-Oh View Post
    I have not "attacked" anyone. I made a point out of a foolish question, that is all. Try not to phrase it like i constantly bash people, all i've done in this thread is analyse peoples points and make comments on them.

    Back to the point at hand i read a post were people were discussing the possibile outcome of Nidaime vs Kisame and the subject of Nidaimes second element. Anyone else think he may have tried to learn to use earth in an attempt to obtaib his brothers abilities? Personaly i think he may have used lightning as a second element but thats just based on the sword in the filler arc with that rain ninja.
    keep doing that and you will be banned in no time. i'm trying you this from experience.

    but about nidaime i doubt we will ever find out what his second element is since he doesn't seem relevant
    to the story, unless he also have something to do with madara.

    "Too much hope is the opposite of despair... an overpowering love may consume you in the end."

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