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Thread: Secondary Elements Explanation

  1. #121
    英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Ya know what? This has become just some loose theorizing after all. I mean the most we can get to is, "Kishi, your elemental system is bust." That just has to put any rational quest for understanding elemental recombination to rest. I say we make a petition:

    Kishi, fix your damn elemental hogwash. We want to sound intelligent when we talk of it. Thanks.


    Imagine the sixth chakra manipulation. Is it an element? How the hell will it fit?
    Last edited by ornis; November 14, 2008 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. #122
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    lol, I'd support that! XD

    Well, it's Kishi's world so really, applying our physical and scientific rules to his world is really a lost cause in specific cases. Kishi's world only follows real life rules when it comes to general stuff(ex: there is the presence of gravity and oxygen in the Narutoverse lol ) but we shouldn't really try to dissect too much because I doubt Kishi himself really bothers to put that much effort into his details.

  3. #123
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    I agree. And, LanderZ, I think the sound is deceiving. We just might find a Steam bloodline limit one day and Kishi could excuse it as "Wind + Water with a lot of force applied or whatever."

  4. #124
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member LanderZ's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by ornis View Post
    I agree. And, LanderZ, I think the sound is deceiving. We just might find a Steam bloodline limit one day and Kishi could excuse it as "Wind + Water with a lot of force applied or whatever."
    Meh, I don't see Steam happening, persay. Storms or some such, perhaps.

    Also, I think Kishi may have been referring to Inyou [Yin/Yang, Destruction/Creation] stuffs in that 6 element comment. Or he typo'd it, since it's corrected to say 5 elements in DB3.

  5. #125
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Deviant's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Sasuke's main is Fire.

    The first elemental attach he used in the story was fire.

    In a flashback, his dad teaches him how to use a fire attack.

    Kakashi explained to Naruto that every nhinja has a main element, then secondary ones. The main one being the first and easiest to obtain control of.

    Therefore, Sasuke's main element is fire. He just happens to be a lot better with lighting. xD

  6. #126
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member LanderZ's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviant View Post
    Sasuke's main is Fire.

    The first elemental attach he used in the story was fire.

    In a flashback, his dad teaches him how to use a fire attack.

    Kakashi explained to Naruto that every nhinja has a main element, then secondary ones. The main one being the first and easiest to obtain control of.

    Therefore, Sasuke's main element is fire. He just happens to be a lot better with lighting. xD
    Meh, it's hard to make that claim, as you need an affinity to use higher-ranked Jutsu of an element [as explained by Kakashi when fighting Kakuzu], and Sasuke's used higher ranked Raiton than Katon.

    For all we know, if Sasuke's father had taught him a C-ranked Raiton, instead, he would have learned that even easier than Goukakyuu.

    I don't think the notion of primary/2ndary elements being easier to learn, or first to learn, really helps any....

  7. #127
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Well Sasuke has shown more proficiency with Raiton than Katon, so it wouldn't be out of the question to assume that he has more ease with Raiton(seeing as he developed it more than Katon) and therefore, it could very well be his primary elemental affinity.

    Uchihas are taught fire because they all have an innate proficiency for Fire, but that doesn't necessarily mean Fire is their affinity. As far as I know, affinities are only genetic in the case of a Kekkei Genkai, so assuming everyone in a same family had the same affinity isn't exactly totally correct seeing as the manga hasn't confirmed that.

    As Landerz said, the first element you learn may not necessarily be your affinity. Naruto could've been taught Doton first and maybe he could've learned it, just not as easily as Fuuton.

    Remember Sasuke actually had trouble learning the Goukakyuu at first(granted he was a child though), while he managed to learn Chidori within a month.

  8. #128
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkManSharingan32 View Post
    I don't think so.

    Water:
    Suijinheki
    Mizu Bunshin
    Suikoudan
    Suiryuuden
    Daibakufu

    Earth:
    Shinjuu Zanshuu
    ?

    I can't think of anything else...
    there are more earth
    doryuuheki (by sandaime, kakashi vs pain)
    doryuudan (sandaime)
    the mud bunshin of orochimaru
    yomi numa (the swamp made by jiraiya)
    jirobo used 3 i think (wall, prison, immense boulder)
    some water jutsu even non-canon
    and some water jutsu

  9. #129
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    I really wonder if Kishi even plans to complete his elemental wheel. Obviously, some elemental compounds are hard to imagine so I doubt Kishi will bother to implement a bloodline which creates those compounds.

    But just for fun, let's have some discussion about what you guys think the unknowns could be!

    We have these currently unknown elemental compounds:

    Earth+Wind
    Earth+Water
    Earth+Lightning

    Fire+Lightning
    Fire+Water

    Water+Lightning

    Wind+Lightning
    Wind+Fire

  10. #130
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkManSharingan32's Avatar
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff View Post
    there are more earth
    doryuuheki (by sandaime, kakashi vs pain)
    doryuudan (sandaime)
    the mud bunshin of orochimaru
    yomi numa (the swamp made by jiraiya)
    jirobo used 3 i think (wall, prison, immense boulder)
    some water jutsu even non-canon
    and some water jutsu

    I believe all those moons ago I was listing only Kakashi's jutsu. lol
    ~Elemental Manipulation at its Best~

  11. #131
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Kakashi has used 3 Doton to date, that I can recall.

    Dochuu Eigyo, Shinjuu Zanshuu, and Doryuuheki.

    Oh, and the Tracking Fang.... that's kinda Doton.

    He has used 2 Raiton [Chidori/Raikiri, and Raiken], and a bunch of Suiton [most were copied from Zabuza/Kisame, but Suijunheki was used both vs Itachi and Kakuzu]

  12. #132
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Actually sasuke just found a better use for lightning than fire that fit his style. It could be just that fire is sasuke natural element cuz his blood line and lightning is his affinity. And that the next one he learns will just be his secondary element. Its takes amazing control in order to use a katon to create a thunder cloud. Even without amaterasu it would have been successful cuz he had to have practices and not many amaterasu flames are laying around.

    But Sasuke just loves Raiton. Thing is. If you compare lightning jutsu to fire jutsu sasuke has just as many with Raiton leading by like one. Just lightning has hire ranks. I beleive A and S rank katon jutsu must be rediculously powerful cuz the one we thought were strong are only C and B rank. Just imagine the power of an A or S
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  13. #133
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    I think Kishi's explanation of the elemental cycle is already quite clear here,I'll help you:
    Fire>Wind (as explained by Yamato)
    Earth>Water (Water can't destroy rocks no matter how strong the water is)
    Water>Fire (you get the Idea)
    The only thing I don't get is Wind>Lightning & Lightning>Earth

  14. #134
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    Earth>Water (Water can't destroy rocks no matter how strong the water is)
    i think that's not true, water in rivers is eroding the stones there,
    sand in sea is created by water,
    take a little crack in stone, add some water, let it freeze, boom, you got an damaged stone,
    dams from stone are broken through by water they should hold, also with enough pressure, i believe it can destroy rock

  15. #135
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    Re: Secondary Elements Explanation

    Yeah, real world physics shouldn't be considered TOO heavily in Kishi's universe since he decides what rules from our world he wants to apply and which ones he doesn't. I mean, we have fire that never goes out and water that shoots up in the shape of dragons lol

    Because on a technical term, wind can put out fire if you displace enough oxygen(since wind it the movement of air) quick enough so that the fire cannot breathe anymore. That is the basis of blowing out candles and stuff. Obviously, the bigger the fire, the less this phenomenon can occur, but just being nitpicky here lol

    As for Lightning > Earth, it may be due to the fact that electric systems require a ground to operate properly under certain circumstances(ex: lightning rods).

    But as I've said, no use trying to understand TOO much lol XD

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