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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
Not many posts lately that I do that with.
But for those too lazy to read all of it, heres a summary of the first part:
Just because Sasuke uses the lightning element "more", DOES NOT mean that is his Elemental Affinity.
So far, Sasuke has used it for Tactical Advantages.
In the Hideout at the beginning of Part II:
Used Nagashi as a quick way to disperse Naruto & Co.
Pure Elemental Advantage
Used two high quality fire jutsu, and I believe two Lightning jutsu (one being Kirin).
Last edited by ornis; April 30, 2008 at 01:38 PM.
There was a huge clash to which Itachi used Amaterasu to counter.
He knew they were essentially Earth Element attacks since he states he saw the Earth Seal... He just wasn't sure his Electricity was the reason the bombs did not detonate. (Of course he didn't know BEFORE fighting. Be once Deidara used his jutsu ONCE... he was clued in)Quote:
Actually, no offense intended... Just re-read that entire chapter without a Bias... and you see that there was no accident. Only calculated reasoning from Sasuke's part.
Well that puts the count at 3-2 (Lightning-Fire).Quote:
And if you consider that Sasuke's opponent was Itachi... Using Fire jutsu without the right opportunity could easily turn the tables to Itachi's favor.
EDIT: I guess I don't have to re-read the fight after all, ornis just proved that Sasuke really did figure it out on accident.
Last edited by Neuroff; April 30, 2008 at 02:24 PM.
That's the start of Deidara v. Sasuke. Sasuke doesn't see a specifically Doton-based handseal.
Deidara first uses no handseals.
Then, to arm his bombs, Deidara uses another not specifically Doton-based handseal:
And Sasuke, by the same link, reacts with Raiton. Out of reflex. Just by countering with Raiton, based on no premise but to defend against Deidara's attack, Sasuke reacts. Then, Sasuke comes up with a theory:
Neuroff is right.
I contend Sasuke uses the techniques that get the most effect.
Analyzing Sasuke.. what would you think Sasuke would do against a known Wind-Elemental Ninja?
Chidori has been Sasuke's finisher pretty much the entire series...Quote:
And until we figure out what jutsu Sasuke was going to use on Naruto & Co... we should reserve the thought that he doesn't possess a Fire Element Finisher.
(I believe Sasuke developed Kirin specifically for Itachi... To judge/execute his brother for his crimes.)
Well after re-reading those chapters..Quote:
Turns out Chidori Nagashi, and the Chidori Ken were both used IN Genjutsu.
Zetsu remarks that they both didn't even move... so no techniques were used.
But thats a technicality anyways.
I still contend he uses his Lightning situationally since it's better adapted to be used for Utility than Fire jutsu.
I mean, there IS a precedent for it with Shikamaru and the Nara Clan using variations for the Rat seal for their Shadow jutsu.
I mean Sasuke DOES make reference to a Earth Seal... and Deidara does not refute it.
I hate to assume plot holes. lol
Last edited by DarkManSharingan32; April 30, 2008 at 02:29 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Your right that Sauske's most developed element is lightning but that still does not warrant it being his natural affinity. You may be right but until i see evidence otherwise i'm sticking with fire as his natural affinity. If we compare what fire Jutsu we have seen to the lightning Jutsu Sauske has developed himself we can see why he would "choose" to use lightning over fire. To be perfectly honest lightning seems to be the most destructive element plain and simple, its only real purpose is offense. Even Kakuzu's combination of probably the highest level wind and fire jutsu was easily dodged. Sauske's lightning Justu are quicker and more destructive, after aquiring lightning as an additional element why would he continue to develop his fire Jutsu when he has a faster, more potent weapon in his arsenal waiting to be developed. I'm not disputing lightning is now Sauske's primary combat element, i'm saying that just because he uses it the most does not make it his affinity. Lightning is a skill Sauske has aquired and pushed to it's limits, fire was just the stepping stone. To those who use Sauske having difficulty learning Gokakyuu no Jutsu as a "child" i have one thing to say, learning that Jutsu was a right of passage and signified a child becoming an adult in the eyes of the Uchiha. He was still extremely young when he learned the Jutsu, Kakashi notes that he should not have had the chakra to perform that Jutsu at his age during the bell test. You are just comparing him to Itachi without thinking it through.
Consider Neuroff's comment
Just take it in this context: what began Kirin? What finished it? And is it not the most incredible feat in Sasuke's repertoire that we have witnessed?Originally Posted by Neuroff
The answer is the point of Kirin: two doses of the Great Dragon Fire (Katon: Gouryuuka) were used as slaves to Kirin's effect. In that instance, Sasuke would've reduced his natural affinity to a service for Kirin, a tech that surpasses the known pre-Kirin extents of elemental/qualitative manipulation, because Sasuke also employed nature to make Kirin. But as someone stated before, Katon was forced out of Sasuke. As boy looking to bear the family crest, he struggled to master what he never did naturally. Sasuke's genius didn't have him muster up his Katon ability. Sasuke's hard work gave him the leverage to do Katon.
But, lightning appears to be Sasuke's natural elemental affinity. Even if he didn't start out with it, he uses it instinctively, and he has developed a Raiton attack that is dependent on Katon, from what we know--but the Katon still serves to make an overall attack complete.
When it comes to what Sasuke has done with Kirin, which is unlike anything Zetsu knew of before, Sasuke's fire balls just help to fuel that Raiton skill. Simply, the service ends with Sasuke's aim--the result that is Kirin.
Effectively, Katon is as good as a incredible seal in creating Kirin. It's a supplement to Kirin.
Last edited by ornis; April 30, 2008 at 02:37 PM.
i think kakashi elements should be lightning and earth, not lightning and water.
SO let me see.
The argument is:
What ever jutsu you use most, is what your affinity is.
Regardless of elemental weaknesses and strategy.
Let's also disregard sasuke's explanation as non-sense... even though it's the ONLY piece of Canon evidence actually provided? As well as any "falsities" which you guys have found... still unchecked by Deidara?
Uchiha have natural Fire Jutsu Affinities.
Sasuke = Uchiha.
Lightning is easier to manipulate, and therefore is more than just pure offense/defense (unlike Fire).
What did you guys want him to do... Shoot a huge fire attack at BOMBS? lol
Also... he used his Raiton Needles because there were multiple things to attack at once.
Katon Housenka in that situation would have taken Handseals... AND since its just a barrage of mini-fireballs, there chance stands that they wouldnt all be stopped.
Last edited by DarkManSharingan32; April 30, 2008 at 02:55 PM.
This means that the precedent for Deidara's arming seal can be assumed to be related to Doton abilities?Quote:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/361/13/ (cite: Panel 4)
...does not comply with the seal that Sasuke first witnesses. His deduction, "All your techniques use earth based seals," is therefore a generality. The charging of clay may involve Raiton, and that means all of Deidara's techniques may use Doton-based seals in the context of the battle, but they may also involve Raiton-based seals. Though, I won't counter his generality with a generality. Sasuke's just working on a reference there to make a broad statement.
DarkManSharingan32 is right your only argument is that he uses lightning more than fire, in fairness he uses them at a higher level than fire as well but this does not provide evidence for it being his affinity. Lightning is not only more versitile and destructive but through the use of natural lightning it allows Sauske to utilize more lightning than a ninja can produce with there own chakra. Not only that its speed is greater than that of chakra based lightning. Sauske "chose" to push this element to its limits because he is a genius ninja and seen the potential it had for him. The reason he has not developed fir Jutsu further is that they are essentialy a redundant part of his arsenal and only warrant use against other fire Jutsu or potential wind Jutsu.