Bleach -102 Discussion

[Grimjaww]

If Aizen is behind this and made perfect Vaizards, then there would be no point in stealing the hougyoku, so that theory doesn't seem too convincing at the moment.

[Ceestar]

I do apologise if someone has brought this up, I haven't been through all the pages of this or the previous chapter's discussions. Also I'm not sure if this theory makes sense, I'm a little vague on some Bleach information, especially stuff from earlier in the series.

These are my notes...
-Kisuke told Hiyori about that gigai he was playing with, and the purpose he was messing with it (the disappearing souls)
-When sending Hiyori to help the 9th Division, he said to take whatever she needed.
-Hiyori is shown carrying a large box in the final panel of that chapter (-103).
(said box has since disappeared)

Could is be possible that she took the gigai? In hopes of resucing any dying souls? I mean it's a bit of a long shot, considering I can't see her just running off with some of Kisuke's stuff, but it's a theory.
The hole I'm trying to fill is that there are ... 9 Vizards? Well, several, and I'm assuming 1 gigai. Perphaps they use this on Kensei and ... well I'm not sure about the others.
He looks more like a weird robot thing than a monster at the moment, Kensei that is.

And I personally don't think Risa and Ise-fukutaichou are related, it's probably a similar situation to Rukia. Like how Ichigo reminds her so much of Kaien kinda thing. Somebody mentioned that's why Kyouraku-taichou is so protective of his lieutenant, refusing to lose another one like this.

In a way I'm glad this arc is ending so we can get back to the main story, but at the same time this arc has been so exciting I wouldn't mind it going for a little longer. (still I'd like it to go back to the main story soon so I can see where Izuru is...Hisagi having been mentioned in this gaiden makes me think he'll play a significant role in the coming arc)

[Morlun]

Your first correction was correct actually. In Japan, the terms for royalty and nobility are different, with a clear distinction between the two. The noble families in Bleach do not include the royal family.

Ah, that's what threw me off then. I googled and corrected myself, then googled again 'cause it wasn't making sense to me, and re-corrected myself. In Europe, royalty are the highest of nobles. Oh, well, I stand re-re-corrected. Thanks.

[patastinky]

Here's what i think. TODO was killed on his way back to the camp site where the 9th divison was. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.6/14/
Take a look at his face. Also the background is in "blacked out" meaning that he's intent is evil! (at least that's how i see it). Then take a look at pages 16 and 17. Todo is still in a black background and his face is emotionless. I believe that Aizen (or his sword) took Todo's form. As soon as Todo got back he told the 2 other guys who were guarding the tent that "he would relieve them" wtf!! Homeboy just ran to inform the Uraharra about the 10 missing shinigami. Why would he say that, if he wasn't trying to kill them. He should be tired! Shortly after that the two Shinigami are killed and Todo is left standing.. !! Todo' would not have been strong enough to kill those two guarding unless he was a high level Shinigami, which he isn't they are all of equal level hence his outfit.

Anyways what i am getting at is that Kisuke, on page 17 realizes this, but is too late. That's why he freaks out and calls for his Lieut. I can't believe i didnt' see this earlier.. Todo seems so freaking shady when he returned! If you look at the previous chapter he is always in white background and has some kind of expression on his face. I can't wait to see what happens in the next chapter

[kunai-knight]

Here's what i think. TODO was killed on his way back to the camp site where the 9th divison was. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.6/14/
Take a look at his face. Also the background is in "blacked out" meaning that he's intent is evil! (at least that's how i see it). Then take a look at pages 16 and 17. Todo is still in a black background and his face is emotionless. I believe that Aizen (or his sword) took Todo's form. As soon as Todo got back he told the 2 other guys who were guarding the tent that "he would relieve them" wtf!! Homeboy just ran to inform the Uraharra about the 10 missing shinigami. Why would he say that, if he wasn't trying to kill them. He should be tired! Shortly after that the two Shinigami are killed and Todo is left standing.. !! Todo' would not have been strong enough to kill those two guarding unless he was a high level Shinigami, which he isn't they are all of equal level hence his outfit.

Anyways what i am getting at is that Kisuke, on page 17 realizes this, but is too late. That's why he freaks out and calls for his Lieut. I can't believe i didnt' see this earlier.. Todo seems so freaking shady when he returned! If you look at the previous chapter he is always in white background and has some kind of expression on his face. I can't wait to see what happens in the next chapter

this has been mentioned before. we're all almost certain that he had something to do with the killing of the other team members.

[Steve]

I believe that Aizen (or his sword) took Todo's form.

You do realize that Aizen must have spoken about his powers before activating them, right?
We have no trace of Aizen speaking to Urahara or to the entire 9th Division about his own shikai, so IMO this opinion is "for fanfics only"

[patedecarne]

I do apologise if someone has brought this up, I haven't been through all the pages of this or the previous chapter's discussions. Also I'm not sure if this theory makes sense, I'm a little vague on some Bleach information, especially stuff from earlier in the series.

These are my notes...
-Kisuke told Hiyori about that gigai he was playing with, and the purpose he was messing with it (the disappearing souls)
-When sending Hiyori to help the 9th Division, he said to take whatever she needed.
-Hiyori is shown carrying a large box in the final panel of that chapter (-103).
(said box has since disappeared)

Could is be possible that she took the gigai? In hopes of resucing any dying souls? I mean it's a bit of a long shot, considering I can't see her just running off with some of Kisuke's stuff, but it's a theory.
The hole I'm trying to fill is that there are ... 9 Vizards? Well, several, and I'm assuming 1 gigai. Perphaps they use this on Kensei and ... well I'm not sure about the others.
He looks more like a weird robot thing than a monster at the moment, Kensei that is.

There's no need to apologize, Ceestar, because tou brought a valid point here!

I also think that Hiyori is carrying the gigai, even if Kisuke gave her another tool, the gigai probably is one of them, and the worries coming from Urahara could be due the fact Hiyori is with a dangerous tool, never tested before, and who knows the results if Hiyori try it on Kensei;

And like you said, still we have 7 pre vaizards left, and one gigai isn't enough; unless Urahara already prepared another gigai, and I'm really thinking he won't wait in his squad;

[Silhouette]

These are my notes...
-Kisuke told Hiyori about that gigai he was playing with, and the purpose he was messing with it (the disappearing souls)
-When sending Hiyori to help the 9th Division, he said to take whatever she needed.
-Hiyori is shown carrying a large box in the final panel of that chapter (-103).
(said box has since disappeared)

Could is be possible that she took the gigai? In hopes of resucing any dying souls? I mean it's a bit of a long shot, considering I can't see her just running off with some of Kisuke's stuff, but it's a theory.
The hole I'm trying to fill is that there are ... 9 Vizards? Well, several, and I'm assuming 1 gigai. Perphaps they use this on Kensei and ... well I'm not sure about the others.
He looks more like a weird robot thing than a monster at the moment, Kensei that is.

Hiyori might have taken the gigai to save victims if they were vanishing but stil,l it won't be needed in Kensie's case at least. Becasue Kensie didn't vanish and therefore the gigai is not needed. If what's happening to Kensie is similar to what happened to Ichigo, then Kensie will overpower his hollow eventually and become a vizard/shinigami again without the need for a gigai.

This arc may last longer than 2 months, after all 2 months was just an estimate by Kubo.

[sk.nite]

If Aizen is behind this and made perfect Vaizards, then there would be no point in stealing the hougyoku, so that theory doesn't seem too convincing at the moment.

We don't know if they are perfect, since they are the only ones (besides ichigo). Maybe hollowfication through the hougyoku makes a vizard much more powerful. It would be something logical, since it happens that way with arrancars. Also, if Aizen was the responsible for the creation of the vaizards, I doubt they would be willing to obey him ("You turned me into a frickin' monster bastard!")

[THETRUTH.com]

If Aizen is behind this and made perfect Vaizards, then there would be no point in stealing the hougyoku, so that theory doesn't seem too convincing at the moment.

This method is far from perfect it isnt even stable. Mashiro was able to control her hollow from the beginning while Hyori and Ichigo had the longest recorded internal battles. The arrancar seem to require no particlar training time to use their power. Also the possible unstable nature(unexpected breaks) of using the mask and the fatigue that come if the mask breaks accidentally would leave the person vulnerable. Taking into account the amount of post-hollowification it take to control the powers while still having with varying results. All the time needing to utilize captain-class shinigami to make the transformation possible. This method is not perfect. Just looking at the results immediately after the transformation, this experiment looks like a complete failure.

[Tsukisama]

I may be wrong as well, but 2nd Division vice-captain wasn't related to this 4th family?
Wikipedia doesn't help me to understand.

Anyway, back on topic: I predict Isshin coming out somewhere in this gaiden, but the end seems obvious to me.
The soon-to-be Vaizards will be pwned by some zampakuto power (whose shinigami will be eliminated and treated as scapegoat by Aizen and Gin), Urahara will be exiled for knowing-but-not-helping and Yoruichi... dunno, I'm curious

In Soul Society, you have the Rukongai in which reside the souls of people who die in the real world entering SS as peasants. Beyond the Rukongai, spearated by a great wall is the Seireitei, where the shinigami and noble families live (reminiscent of how the samurai and daimyo where seen as being of greater status in feudal Japan). Among the noble families, there are four most prominent noble families.

Oomaeda is from one of the lesser noble families, not one of the four great noble families like the Kuchiki and Shihouin clans. Although we typically refer to the four great noble clans as simply the "four noble clans," there are other noble families residing in Seireitei. All of the shinigami either started off as peasants from Rukongai or a member of a noble family from Seireitei.

I do apologise if someone has brought this up, I haven't been through all the pages of this or the previous chapter's discussions. Also I'm not sure if this theory makes sense, I'm a little vague on some Bleach information, especially stuff from earlier in the series.

These are my notes...
-Kisuke told Hiyori about that gigai he was playing with, and the purpose he was messing with it (the disappearing souls)
-When sending Hiyori to help the 9th Division, he said to take whatever she needed.
-Hiyori is shown carrying a large box in the final panel of that chapter (-103).
(said box has since disappeared)

Could is be possible that she took the gigai? In hopes of resucing any dying souls? I mean it's a bit of a long shot, considering I can't see her just running off with some of Kisuke's stuff, but it's a theory.
The hole I'm trying to fill is that there are ... 9 Vizards? Well, several, and I'm assuming 1 gigai. Perphaps they use this on Kensei and ... well I'm not sure about the others.
He looks more like a weird robot thing than a monster at the moment, Kensei that is.

And I personally don't think Risa and Ise-fukutaichou are related, it's probably a similar situation to Rukia. Like how Ichigo reminds her so much of Kaien kinda thing. Somebody mentioned that's why Kyouraku-taichou is so protective of his lieutenant, refusing to lose another one like this.

In a way I'm glad this arc is ending so we can get back to the main story, but at the same time this arc has been so exciting I wouldn't mind it going for a little longer. (still I'd like it to go back to the main story soon so I can see where Izuru is...Hisagi having been mentioned in this gaiden makes me think he'll play a significant role in the coming arc)

As Silhouette pointed out, Hiyori could very well be holding a gigai, but the vizards will not be needing one to stabilize because we know that they eventually revert back to the original selves. I personally don't think that that box will play a large role in the plot. As you stated, she was carrying it at the end of chapter 103 and does not appear in this chapter. My guess that it contained equipment (possibly even a gigai), but the important part of next chapter will be the future vizards transforming and rampaging, not this box.

Izuru is more than likely not going to show up for a while longer when the plot returns to the present. The plot will likely focus on the battles between Ichigo and Ulquiorra and between the SS forces present to fight Aizen. My guess is that Izuru along with the other unseen lieutenants are holding down the fort in SS, since somebody needs to stay in command for the rest of the forces.

Hisagi being shown in this gaiden probably does not mean that he will become a major character. More likely, this was just done to provide some interesting backstory and fill out the chapter. During the chapter where he first appeared, it could have just Kensei on patrol and fighting hollows, but Kubo made it more interesting by tying in another character from the present. It is nice to have some background information on Shuuhei, but the chances of him becoming a central character are still rather small.

Ah, that's what threw me off then. I googled and corrected myself, then googled again 'cause it wasn't making sense to me, and re-corrected myself. In Europe, royalty are the highest of nobles. Oh, well, I stand re-re-corrected. Thanks.

No problem. Concepts of nobility and royalty differ depending on where you are. I was aware that you were probably thinking eurocentrically when you replied. This is good, since I am sure at least someone out there may have been thinking along the same lines as you.

You do realize that Aizen must have spoken about his powers before activating them, right?
We have no trace of Aizen speaking to Urahara or to the entire 9th Division about his own shikai, so IMO this opinion is "for fanfics only"

We have had a nine gap between the beginning of Urahara's captaincy and now. We cannot be sure whether Aizen has ever shown his shikai to Urahara (and even less sure about the members of the 9th division) or not. Thus, you cannot rule out this as a possiblity.

[Steve]

Oomaeda is from one of the lesser noble families, not one of the four great noble families like the Kuchiki and Shihouin clans. Although we typically refer to the four great noble clans as simply the "four noble clans," there are other noble families residing in Seireitei. All of the shinigami either started off as peasants from Rukongai or a member of a noble family from Seireitei.

Thanks, it seems I mis-understood that part
I wonder if one of these four family is the one that is being named in the current anime filler arc... but the filler arc may not be canon anyway, so in the end we can only say that we're off topic

It is nice to have some background information on Shuuhei, but the chances of him becoming a central character are still rather small.

Fully agree on that point.
Very nice (and speechless!) moments, though.

We have had a nine years gap between the beginning of Urahara's captaincy and now. We cannot be sure whether Aizen has ever shown his shikai to Urahara (and even less sure about the members of the 9th division) or not. Thus, you cannot rule out this as a possiblity.

The only possibility I can currently recognize is Shinji knowing about Kyōka Suigetsu as he is Aizen's superior. More than knowing -- appreciating, since he chose him as 5th Division vice-captain.
Anyway, wathcing back on http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/171/11/ , the condition is "to show the initial release", not to talk about the sword. If we can name "initial release" the dirty trick that Aizen used when Shinji and Urahara talked, then we could maybe have our point.

[Darek Khort]

The current filler arc names a family under the top 4. I think they mentioned they were 2nd in ranking in terms of those families who aren't the top 4. So basically 6th in rank if that makes sense.
In other words, not related to the Top 4. It's a filler arc, so that's to be expected.

[funex]

i can see this coming:
this is infact the last of the "turn back the pendulum" series
the next is going to be back to aizen vs gottei 13 and the vaizards
and the rest of how the history of the vizard will be told in flashbacks during the figth

[hyn_pride93]

well, i think that after chapter -101, then we'll end up back with Aizen them. and so, i guess i kind of agree with u on the whole thing. -100 wont happen, probably, it'll return to the story


----side note----- i hate finals. but who cares bcuz i only have one more left and thats english. then i finish sku and everyone else finishes tomorrow. why? bcuz i have frees during periods 7 and 8..