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Thread: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

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    Banned 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    After the fight with Byakuya, Ichigo's "I can deflect 1 million scattered blades in 0.05 seconds" speed hasn't helped much. You could say that the enemies leveled up, so their speed would be evenly matched. But following that reasoning , the power gap between him and the enemy would be big, since speed is suposedly his strong point (assuming the enemy is an all-around type of fighter, or that at least that the speed matches closely the overall level).

    In the first fight with Grimmjow, this refutation would be true seeing how the fight developed until the point Hollow Ichigo butted in. Against Yammi, hmm, it was probably a difference in sheer amount of reiatsu and the speed didn't come into play (it would have been interesting at that point seeing how he would have fared against a released Yammi). Dordoni was outclassed too, and against Ulqui there was no contest.

    Then there's the second fight against Grimmjow. I wasn't expecting such a close match in this one (am i the only one who thinks that power wise, the espadas release aren't worth much?) but this is where I found the biggest inconcistency. If their overall levels are similar, then shouldn't Ichigo's speed be much higher than Grimmjow's? It could be speculated that Grimmjow's release also increased his speed greatly, but it would have been mentioned or at least hinted (besides being awfully convenient). And finally, against Nnoitra, he was exausted and couldn't cut him, but he could have at least aimed for the soft spots, like Kenpachi did. But I won't go deeply into that, it's not related to the issue in question.

    The point I'm trying to make is that Ichigo obtained this potentially sick abilty, but it hasn't been desicive in any fight. Personally, I didn't like any of Ichigo's fights (why would I be writing this otherwise?) except the one vs. Byakuya. All the others seemed full of bullshit spouting and without much thought put into them to me. Also I would have liked that Ichigo developed some sort of new attack while he was doing his vaizard training. It would have made his recent fights more interesting.

    Anyway, if you think if there is some contradiction or inconcistency in my reasoning or I blatantly missed something tell me. Yeah, I dare you bastards, try to prove me wrong.

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    Ichigo was hit with a speeding ticket last month. 600 bucks! Can you believe it? He's trying to avoid a repeat.

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    LOL at the last sentence.

    And I think you mean the THIRD fight with GJ if you're talking about his release. You mean the fight in Hueco Mundo, right?

    Anyway, I fully agree that TZ was neutered too quickly. At the very least, Ichigo should be faster than everyone below Ulquiorra--much faster--even if he can't draw blood. Otherwise, what's the point of his Bankai? The badass transformation sequence? Kubo hasn't presented anything more than that. And keep in mind, Byakuya was able to keep up with Zomari, who supposedly has the fastest Sonido, so all the other Espada should be slower than both of them anyway.

    I also agree that his style needs way more polish, and depth.

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    Quote Quote:
    I also agree that his style needs way more polish, and depth.
    and this is exactly why zangetsu is needed.

    well i think ichigo's next battle will decide it all.
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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    ^ Agreed. Or, alternately, he could think more outside the box like Shirosaki--using hand-to-hand, throwing the sword, SOMETHING. He was doing all that stuff just before his fight with Byakuya; I don't get why he stopped. But I do agree that Zangetsu will be the key, not Shirosaki, since all the mask has given Ichigo is unstable raw power.

    Also, how's having "the fastest Sonido" any good when you don't use it with your release (which would've ensured Zomari's victory)? And what difference does it make when Stark can teleport? I swear, all those meaningless declarations are annoying.

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by gigantor21 View Post
    Also, how's having "the fastest Sonido" any good when you don't use it with your release (which would've ensured Zomari's victory)? And what difference does it make when Stark can teleport? I swear, all those meaningless declarations are annoying.
    It's a tough deal losing your legs for one sick kidou ability .

    I don't know if Stark has that ability, maybe it has something to do with Las Noches. Remember that Tousen used a teleportation technique in SS (that very very gay artistic gimnastics one)?

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member crono's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    I thought about this too, but the sad answer is that this is a manga. If Ichigo was as fast as he was first portrayed when he first got bankai, he would be TOO badass now. Typical shounen manga = power up is badass at first, then it becomes commonplace. The move is now useless, and he will have to use a new move (i.e. bankai is now useless and he always has to go vaizard mode).

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by gigantor21 View Post
    And I think you mean the THIRD fight with GJ if you're talking about his release. You mean the fight in Hueco Mundo, right?
    You're right. For some reason the two fights in the human world merged as one in my memory, even though I re-read Bleach like 3 times. Yep, my memory it's that bad

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by crono View Post
    I thought about this too, but the sad answer is that this is a manga. If Ichigo was as fast as he was first portrayed when he first got bankai, he would be TOO badass now. Typical shounen manga = power up is badass at first, then it becomes commonplace. The move is now useless, and he will have to use a new move (i.e. bankai is now useless and he always has to go vaizard mode).
    But that's just it. It's commonplace, yes, but the way that move is implemented is so random.

    Byakuya completely owned Zomari, and Zaraki didn't need Shikai to beat Nori, yet Ichigo fought evenly with both of them in SS. A lot of excuses have been thrown around to compensate for that. But we shouldn't have to make up explanations for things that should be obvious--especially fights in a shonen series.

    It'd be fine if that neutering happened to everyone, but it affects some people and not others. And when it happens to Ichigo, Kubo makes up for it by bending the plot--again, forcing us to either come up with excuses or just throw up our hands and give up.

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    The main problem here is that Kubo leaves a lot of things unexplained. In the storytelling this can make it all the more interesting, but in the fights is just annoying.

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    Regarding Stark, I'm thinking that what he used to capture Orihime was Sonido, and being the case, Ichigo and average captains couldn't match with such powerful Sonido, they're pretty much done in a fight with Stark;

    Zomari with the fastest sonido was really weird: in a release, an arrancar should be able to keep its unreleased abilities, and just like Gig said, Byakuya easily matched Zomari, then, by logic, Byakuya is more fast than any espada, even Ichigo; My guess is that Kubo is trying to give unique abilities to every espada, like Nnoitra, with the strongest skin, AAroniero with the ability to absorb a countless number of hollow, or szayelApollo, with the Gabriel ability; unfortunately, such ability to Zomari was a bad choice, because I'm sure higher espadas can match with his speed easily;

    And about the topic, yes, Kubo is making a big inconsistency about his more important ability while in Bankai(probably the only one, hehe). If I must say some explanation about it, I would say that such speed only impressed us in the beginning, before Byakuya got used with it, so, Byakuya was caught in surprise, but only in a short period of time, because some time later, Ichigo was imprisoned in Senken Senbonzakura, only being saved by shirosaki;

    Another curious detail is the so called hyperspeed only played a big role in Byakuya's fight, after it, everytime Ichigo used Bankai was to increase his power, and the initial definition of his Bankai was just to increase his speed, not his strength;

    Seems that now, the concept of ultra mega master speed is no more; And in the upcoming fights, with so powerful enemies, like ulquiorra, I just cannot see Ichigo overpowering him with great speed...

    Unless Kubo give him a new move based on pure speed, something like a vortex or tornado, where even Ulquiorra couldn't defend;

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    ^ I think one big problem is that Kubo overestimated his ability to present speed.

    GJ is able to keep up with Ichigo, Ulquiorra is faster, and Zomari and Stark are (supposedly) faster still, but only Zomari and Stark actually LOOKED faster. In fact, everyone besides Zomari, Yoruichi and Stark use Shunpo/Sonido the same way, so it's hard to tell who's faster than who unless they're fighting each other. It's the same with destructive power--we've yet to see anything beyond Ichigo-Zaraki, where whole buildings were being destroyed, and I doubt we will.

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    I think that best part is:
    Ichigo vs Zaraki - halfbeaten Ichigo had a tie with Zaraki without eyepath (Ichigo in Shikai)
    Ichigo vs Byakuuya - tie (ichigo bankai, help from shirosaki)
    And after those fight where his power went?? His speed and power? It vanished??? :/

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member someguy0830's Avatar
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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    As has been pointed out earlier, Zangetsu got shoved out of the way when hollow Ichigo popped up. When he comes back, and Kubo would be shooting himself in the foot if he doesn't, Ichigo will likely get back to some of that much more impressive ass-kicking from the good-old days.

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    Re: What happened to Ichigo's hyper-speed?

    I agree with someguy0830

    It seems the banaki power-including speed- isn't showing unless Ichigo uses his hollow so I am guessing that Shirosaki is still in control of Zangetsu.

    Consider the following during Ichigo’s battles with GJ:
    1- The 1st time Ichigo fought GJ, he didn’t have a mask and his bankai speed wasn’t enough to catch up with unreleased GJ who even blocked Zangetsu with his bare hand.
    2- when Ichigo pulled his mask for 10 seconds in the 2nd time he fought with unreleased GJ, his banaki enabled him to out-sped unreleased GJ
    3- In the third fight, GJ didn’t wait after Ichigo pulled his mask and immediately released because he got a taste of true the speed of banaki in the 2nd fight. Banaki-Ichigo was fast enough to dance around with released GJ and Zangetsu who was blocked by GJ’s bare hand in the 1st fight was able to cut through GJ’s strongest attack in the 3rd fight.

    Most people think that Ichigo got stronger and faster after becoming a vizard because of the hollow powers but when thinking about it, shouldn’t banaki speed and black GT be related to Zangetsu himself instead of Shirosaki? Shirosaki doesn’t shoot black GT from his hands but from Zangetsu and the insane speed is related to banaki not to Shirosaki!
    So I am assuming that Shirosaki is now controlling Zangetsu therefore Zangetsu’s true power (bankai) didn’t show unless the mask was pulled.

    This doesn’t mean that the only advantage of going vizard is being able to use Zangetsu fully. Pulling a mask gives the user a very important hollow trait and that is a solid body (e.g like when Ichigo was able to withstand five direct missile attacks from GJ).
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