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Thread: The Four Noble Houses: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Homura's Avatar
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    The Four Noble Houses: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    The Four Great Noble Houses

    a) Kuchiki
    b) Shihouin
    c) ???? -
    d) ???? -

    Lower noble houses:

    a) Soifon's Assistant's Clan - (If someone remembers the name, please correct me)
    b) Kyoraku Clan - House that Shunsui belongs to (it was stated that it was a lower noble clan)
    c) Soifon's Clan -
    d) Shiba Clan* - Previously led by Kaien Shiba, As far as I know, Kukaku is now leading the clan (Note, this clan was dishonored and considered to be degraded)


    Now back to Ichigo and his father, could it be possible that Isshin is part of one of the great Noble houses? As far as I know, the last name "Kurosaki" belongs to Masaki Kurosaki (Ichigo's mom). Also, if Isshin was part of a great noble house, wouldn't it be logical for him to change his appearance so that shinigami won't be able to recognize him?

    If Isshin was indeed part of a noble house, then this could explain Ichigo's massive amounts of reiatsu given that it was stated that the nobles were born with a reiatsu that is naturally above most souls in Soul Society (this would probably include most of the Shinigami).

    Also, it seems that the great noble houses held political positions. If this is true, then would it be possible that Isshin is an officer of a military branch? (Given that there is a Kuchiki and a Shihouin captain and that Shihouin's are usually responsible for one of the branches of the military).

    Following this reasoning, this may explain Isshin's partial garb (or it might be because his powers are not yet fully recovered). Could Isshin be a part of a great noble house?

    Note: If anyone has confirmed information about the other two great noble houses, it would be very much appreciated if you post here.

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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Soi Fon's lieutenant's clan name is Oomaeda. I doubt that Shiba is considered a noble family anymore, since they now live in Rukongai and the nobility live in Seireitei. Other lower noble clans include the Kira and Ukitake clans.

    I doubt that Isshin has changed his appearance. We have seen him outside of his gigai, and his face is the same. He could have had plastic surgery on his spirit body, but that just seems really drastic and not a direction in which Kubo would move.

    Assuming Isshin did not alter his appearance, I would then doubt that he is a noble, given how none of the other shinigami that have ever met him haave recognized him. (Nobility are well-known typically.)

    There are plenty of powerful people in Bleach that aren't necessarily from the top nobility, and Isshin is more than likely one of them.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Homura's Avatar
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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    Soi Fon's lieutenant's clan name is Oomaeda. I doubt that Shiba is considered a noble family anymore, since they now live in Rukongai and the nobility live in Seireitei. Other lower noble clans include the Kira and Ukitake clans.

    I doubt that Isshin has changed his appearance. We have seen him outside of his gigai, and his face is the same. He could have had plastic surgery on his spirit body, but that just seems really drastic and not a direction in which Kubo would move.

    Assuming Isshin did not alter his appearance, I would then doubt that he is a noble, given how none of the other shinigami that have ever met him haave recognized him. (Nobility are well-known typically.)

    There are plenty of powerful people in Bleach that aren't necessarily from the top nobility, and Isshin is more than likely one of them.

    Well that's why I put an asterisk up for the Shiba

    As far as Isshin, it's all the more reason for him to perform a change on his appearance. If you are well known and you want to hide out, you would most likely do something to alter your appearance.

    There are plenty yes, but It maybe a link to Isshin and Ichigo's past.

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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Kubo has never played the plastic surgery card, and I hope he never does. We know that Isshin has been off the radar for at least 20 years, but altering the appearance of his spirit body seems way too drastic and a cop out if Kubo were to ever do this.

    Practically anything can be a link to Isshin's past at this point, but saying he is really strong and therefore he must be a member of one of the four great noble families is not a very strong or convincing argument.

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    Grin Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    The Kurosaki's family could be one of the four noble houses, if so, that would explain why Byakugan and Ichigo don't get along. Isshin maybe one of the old guards of Gotei 13, his massive amounts of spirit power is still unknown.


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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Homura's Avatar
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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Oh I never asserted that Isshin IS from one of the great noble houses,

    I was just linking some observations/facts that was revealed. And no, I didn't make that connection on reiatsu alone. If you check my reasoning, I merely implied that he MIGHT be of a great noble house but there's not enough evidence to prove/disprove it. Practically anything can be linked to Isshin yes, but only a few theories would have some truth to them. I mean let's be honest here, have we actually seen any high ranking shinigami to be pathetically weak? My point exactly, a shinigami's power usually warrants him a spot in the ranks. If people would argue about Central 46 well, we havent even seen one to disprove this yet we have every reason to prove this thinking (given all the Shinigami that has been revealed).

    Altering spirit body is already being done, I don't think its too much to ask if it was ever to be proven. Shinigami get scars and all, therefore their soul's structure has similarity to a biological entity.

    I'm just giving out some facts and observations. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Kubo played the plastic surgery card, it does make sense when you think about it. Mayuri has experiments to different entities, I wouldn't be surprised if he is able to do it. What im thinking is that, why didn't Rukia/Renji recognize him? It could be surmised that it's either or both:

    a) He is a member of a secret squad/group.
    b) He left Soul Society before at an earlier date.

    What I was thinking was is that it is the former though, I'd want to see if Byakuya or Yoruichi knows him. That would give some sort of information or link to us if they ever did meet.

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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Homura View Post
    Oh I never asserted that Isshin IS from one of the great noble houses,

    I was just linking some observations/facts that was revealed. And no, I didn't make that connection on reiatsu alone. If you check my reasoning, I merely implied that he MIGHT be of a great noble house but there's not enough evidence to prove/disprove it. Practically anything can be linked to Isshin yes, but only a few theories would have some truth to them. I mean let's be honest here, have we actually seen any high ranking shinigami to be pathetically weak? My point exactly, a shinigami's power usually warrants him a spot in the ranks. If people would argue about Central 46 well, we havent even seen one to disprove this yet we have every reason to prove this thinking (given all the Shinigami that has been revealed).
    How did you turn my saying that Isshin is probably not a member of one of the four great noble families into Isshin probably did not have a high-ranking position in SS? I definitely think that Isshin probably had a high-ranking position, but that does not equate to being a member of a noble family.

    Quote Quote:
    Altering spirit body is already being done, I don't think its too much to ask if it was ever to be proven. Shinigami get scars and all, therefore their soul's structure has similarity to a biological entity.

    I'm just giving out some facts and observations. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Kubo played the plastic surgery card, it does make sense when you think about it. Mayuri has experiments to different entities, I wouldn't be surprised if he is able to do it.
    Alteration of the spirit body in the way of plastic surgery (i.e., altering the appearance of someone to look someone else) has not been done before. (Obviously, alterations in the general, non-surgical sense have been done spirit bodies like cuts or bruises, as it has been long established that spirit bodies behave rather similarly to bodies of flesh, but I assumed that went without saying. I suppose that it may have needed clarification.)

    I never said or implied that plastic surgery was impossible to perform on the spirit body. I am sure Mayuri among others are capable of such things. I, however, would be surprised if Kubo used plastic surgery as the reason why no one recognizes Isshin. It seems too convenient and unimaginative even for Kubo to go there.

    Quote Quote:
    What im thinking is that, why didn't Rukia/Renji recognize him? It could be surmised that it's either or both:

    a) He is a member of a secret squad/group.
    b) He left Soul Society before at an earlier date.

    What I was thinking was is that it is the former though, I'd want to see if Byakuya or Yoruichi knows him. That would give some sort of information or link to us if they ever did meet.
    Not only did Rukia and Renji not recognize him, but Shinji could not recognize his reiatsu, which has been shown to be fairly recognizable for those who are skilled.

    If Urahara knows who Isshin really is, then Yoruichi recognizing and knowing Isshin would not necessarily be that great of a telltale sign. Unless all of the captains are privied to the knowledge of who Isshin really is, I doubt Byakuya would be able to identify him as his former self as a shinigami. It is not like Byakuya would have any special reason to be included in some sort of super secret information more than the other captains. (Being leader of one of the four great noble clans is not an access card to all secret information in SS.)

    If Isshin were a member of a secret group like the royal guard or even the royal family, plastic surgery to alter his spirit body's appearance would not be necessary (unless he only recently joined the secret group, but I doubt that he is someone fresh).

    Also, if Isshin left SS at a much earlier date (earlier than Shinji's time in Gotei 13 or even in SS), then again Isshin probably would not need the plastic surgery, since he would still be so unrecognizable to the few who have been around long enough to know him.
    Last edited by Tsukisama; May 27, 2008 at 04:39 PM.

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    Grin Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    Not only did Rukia and Renji not recognize him, but Shinji could not recognize his reiatsu, which has been shown to be fairly recognizable for those who are skilled.

    If Isshin were a member of a secret group like the royal guard or even the royal family, plastic surgery to alter his spirit body's appearance would not be necessary (unless he only recently joined the secret group, but I doubt that he is someone fresh).

    Also, if Isshin left SS at a much earlier date (earlier than Shinji's time in Gotei 13 or even in SS), then again Isshin probably would not need the plastic surgery, since he would still be so unrecognizable to the few who have been around long enough to know him.

    I agree with you. If Isshin left Soul Society long before Shinji's time, which soul reaper would be in position to recognize his reiatsu now? I don’t think his massive reiatsu can be detected by Soul Society radar.


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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Hokage View Post
    I agree with you. If Isshin left Soul Society long before Shinji's time, which soul reaper would be in position to recognize his reiatsu now? I don’t think his massive reiatsu can be detected by Soul Society radar.
    Only Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake, and Kyoraku (assuming Isshin was a captain), but I doubt that they would not keep his identity secret and thus those four knowing is not that bad.

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    Grin Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    Only Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake, and Kyoraku (assuming Isshin was a captain), but I doubt that they would not keep his identity secret and thus those four knowing is not that bad.

    If Isshin is noble, they would keep his identity a secret. Those five captains including Isshin are the old guards of Soul Society.


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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Hokage View Post
    If Isshin is noble, they would keep his identity a secret. Those five captains including Isshin are the old guards of Soul Society.
    Exactly. As I said, they are unlikely to reveal his identity, whether Isshin is a noble, a member of the royal guard, or something else.

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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Isshin's past must be explained at some point in the story: after all, Kubo didn't introduced him as a shinigami for nothing;

    But I think we can conclude Isshin isn't an ordinary shinigami, mainly because his Haori is just like a captain haori;

    If Isshin was really from one of the 4 nobles family, then probably there're some Kurosakis in SS, but I don't think the massive reiatsu from Ichigo comes from his lineage, because he's a hybrid, and hybrids seems to be more powerful, not by lineage, I think;

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    Grin Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by patedecarne View Post
    Isshin's past must be explained at some point in the story: after all, Kubo didn't introduced him as a shinigami for nothing;

    But I think we can conclude Isshin isn't an ordinary shinigami, mainly because his Haori is just like a captain haori;

    If Isshin was really from one of the 4 nobles family, then probably there're some Kurosakis in SS, but I don't think the massive reiatsu from Ichigo comes from his lineage, because he's a hybrid, and hybrids seems to be more powerful, not by lineage, I think;

    I do think so. Ichigo is not hybrid, he is the real thing and he inherited his massive reiatsu from his lineage. I am too lazy to give evidence but the proof is there, trust me.


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    Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Hokage View Post
    I do think so. Ichigo is not hybrid, he is the real thing and he inherited his massive reiatsu from his lineage. I am too lazy to give evidence but the proof is there, trust me.
    Ichigo is a shinigami-hollow hybrid in the truest sense, more so than any of the vizards. He regained his shinigami and hollow natures simultaneously, making him the perfect hybrid.

    I agree that Ichigo's innate spiritual abilities likely have something to do with his lineage, but I mean this in the sense that his father is a powerful shinigami in a gigai, not that he has to be related to nobility.

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    Grin Re: The Four Noble House: A Theory on Isshin and Ichigo Kurosaki's heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    Ichigo is a shinigami-hollow hybrid in the truest sense, more so than any of the vizards. He regained his shinigami and hollow natures simultaneously, making him the perfect hybrid.

    I agree that Ichigo's innate spiritual abilities likely have something to do with his lineage, but I mean this in the sense that his father is a powerful shinigami in a gigai, not that he has to be related to nobility.

    How Indigo could regained his Shinigami powers when it was he never taken away from him. The only powers of Shinigami the Byakuya destroyed was Rukia's powers not Indigo’s. When he fought Renji for the first time, he unleashed his own spiritual powers. Since we know very little about Indigo’s lineage, I wouldn’t say that he is a Shinigami-hollow hybrid.


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