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View Poll Results: Do you like Raki as a character in the story?

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  • Yes

    63 67.02%
  • No

    19 20.21%
  • Not sure

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Thread: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

  1. #61
    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    So a question going around is why do so many people hate Raki. There is no shortage of good reasons for this but another one in particular is that Raki is not only emasculating for the male gender but he even fails as the cliche action hero. He fails on many levels but let's be honest he's the Krillin of Claymore. End of discussion.

    Krillin saw a bit of action in Dragon Ball and the early part of DBZ, however once we got to the Android saga he was just, well, there. He trained every single arc but he didn't achieve anything because not only was he weak he couldn't/didn't even fight. Goku and Vegeta, thousands of times more powerful than this loser got their asses beat. Why? Cause they actually did the most fighting. Krillin was a throwaway that Toriyama didn't have the heart to scratch and Raki is the same for Yagi.

    Raki is so overrated and useless that it's plainly obvious to even readers who aren't seasoned in the realm of literature should be able to see it. Let's open the floor to character assassination, sort of my area.

    Chapter 115 served as a weak attempt to elevate Raki from pathetic male add-on to powerful male warrior. It didn't work. It takes more than training and knocking over a bunch of mooks to make you a badass. Fangirls love to blow things out of proportion and they certainly took the cake with this Raki thing. Let's rewind the clock to when Raki met Renee. So Raki took down a Yoma. So what? That doesn't make him strong. Renee stated quite plainly that it's not unusual for humans to kill yoma. The only real difficulty is finding yoma and that's largely the reason Claymore are employed. Raki took down a yoma. So can a hundred or so other warriors in the region. Yet the fandumb went crazy over Raki taking down a yoma. I didn't know average was the new badass.

    A few chapters later, boom Raki gets captured. Last time I checked a strong character is able to overcome obstacles not fall victim to them at everyturn. We get a brief glimpse of Raki flexing his C average and then boom he's a damsel in distress locked up next to Zelda and princess Peach. But don't tell the fangirls because oh he's uber powerful. Now getting back to chapter 115, people are going crazy because he fought the same twins that Miria did and oh wow he's so strong. Oh wow, oh wow. To which I say as if.

    Fans have a take on the battle. I have another. Mine is more inline with what actually happened. 1) It was Raki's own admission that they were going easy on him and he also admitted that he still had trouble and 2) Claymores are conditioned to not attack humans, this conditioning is strongest during childhood so of course they're not going to be able to take down Raki while battling this psychological hurdle. [No one needs to waste my time or yours by questioning me. I'm quite exceptional with adult psychology and early childhood psychology so to move this along take solace in the fact that I'm correct.] 3) Raki did not defeat the twins. Raki survived for no other reason than the twins calling it quits when they realized that Raki was not with the MIB.

    While on the topic of the MIB, so many people said wow Raki is so strong. Yeah I'll bet. It doesn't take much combat experience to beat someone who has very little in their own right. The majority of the MIB don't even engage in combat. They're teachers, scientists, and researchers. I know some people didn't read that so I'll say it again. The "majority" of the MIB don't engage in combat. I didn't say all of them. Naturally there has to be some who teach the Claymore in the way of the blade. But you also have those who are scouts for the MIB, scientists, those who teach Claymore basic information about yoma, yoki, and so forth. I wouldn't be surprised if Raki beat up a couple IT guys.

    And finally even if I give Raki some play it isn't anymore play than what I would give to the same mooks he's beating down. I'm not going to give a character any cred for doing what they are supposed to do. Based on events within the title and conventions of the genre, if a character achieves something it's either their damn job or something that I expect of them. If a hero saves the world he doesn't get anymore props than the million or so other heroes doing the exact same thing, it's his job. If a character trains to take down an opponent I'll give them a sticker but they're not about to get a trophy for something expected of them.

    Raki trained with Isley for what, seven years? He takes down a yoma and suddenly everyone goes crazy. Taking down a yoma isn't something that puts you on the leaderboards. Rabona is filled with guys who can take down yoma. Nevermind the fact that if Raki needs to train with an Abyssal One just to be strong enough to take down a yoma, well that's nothing to brag about. That's like someone training under a Shaolin Monk but they're only good enough to take down the school bully. If Raki displayed power on a level to take down an awakened being then I would say whoa he's a badass. But taking down a yoma is something any warrior anywhere in the region can do. Only issue humans have with taking down yoma is finding out where they are. You get a guy to build a yoki detector and Claymore are all but obsolete, only needed to take down awakened beings. So Raki took on the same set of twins that Miria took on. Sort of easy to fight an opponent who isn't actually trying to kill you don't you think.

    My issue with Raki is further intensified by the fact that Yagi is trying so hard to make this character a likable tough guy and well, he's not. Raki is still the same emasculating male character he was when Claymore first started. Throw in a few generic moments for him to flex that C average strength and he's still the same emasculating male character he was when Claymore first started. If Krillin from DBZ does the fusion dance with Joey Wheeler from Yu-Gi-Oh! they form Raki. Simple as that. We have this character who gets a few shots in the spotlight but in the grand scheme of things he remains an unnecessary byproduct of broadening a cast which already has plenty of interesting characters but who must forever remain underdeveloped and underexplored to provide airtime for a character who is overrated and who does little more than underdeliver.

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  3. #62
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    a paraphrasing repost of my response from on another site:

    Also, Adult Raki was saved from death by "Child-Midget" Priscilla, too

    If it wasn't for her, pulling him out of the way, he'd be dead, killed by the Destroyer's Huge Projectile piercing through his body.

    ------------------

    actually, now that I'm thinking about it, Raki's Power Level was also discussed in this old chapter too, as to whether he participated in killing the powerful and dangerous Hellcats, or if Priscilla did all of the "work", and he merely got hit with the "debris" of two small projectiles in his shoulder from Priscilla's battling/killing the Hellcats for him.

    as if he was killing the hellcats or even helping priscilla in doing so, that would make him seem to be inhuman as one would think a human incapable of taking on the hellcats, which left even Clare+Helen+Deneve exhausted and panting, which is nearly the same thing that's happening now, with his sparring with the TAITs. deja vu discussion all over again, lol.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 16, 2011 at 01:31 PM.
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  4. #63
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    I hate Raki because I watch the anime before I read the manga. I hate kid Raki's dubbed voice. Once I watch an anime, the voice get stamped in to the character when I read the manga also. That's good and bad, for example I think Riful's dubbed voice is just what I would expect Riful should be. But Raki's voice is just so damn annoying!

    As a character, I think he's like the mascot or one that is used as a tool to enhance or give insight in to other characters background or motive. Basicly Raki's roll is needed, but the character itself is blargh. I allways sees Claymore as a story between Clare, Priscilla and Teresa; and Raki as an after thought.
    Last edited by Khorr; June 16, 2011 at 11:19 PM.

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  6. #64
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    If you examine Raki purely based on physical attributes and his abilities to handle a sword, then of course he pales in comparison to all Claymores and perhaps other male warriors in Rabona. In fact, on that basis, he comes out comical and worthy of ridicule. However, Yagi didn't intend to make him a Herculean hero of legend. He served as Clare's mirror to remind her of her past and what she once was, a weak little child whom a power Claymore once saved.

    He allowed her to reacquaint herself with her own emotions and feelings. Theresa's death gave Clare's life a purpose and a direction, but it also left a deep void within. Raki's companionship filled that emptiness and made her feel loved, appreciated and perhaps human, once more. Recall that Raki prevented Clare from awakening, not with magic or trickery but with simple words of affection and tenderness.

    Post the conflict in Pieta, we see that true to his word, Raki has grown in strength and has taken a new charge, Priscilla. I rather like the picture that Yagi has portrayed. He's matured into a strong young man, free of of cynicism and anger.

    Like many of you, I hated the character. After re-reading the Manga several times, I understood his purpose and appreciated his part in the story.
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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  8. #65
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Leroid's Avatar
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    @ZERO PHOENIX
    I will show you why your argument doesn't hold any water.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    So a question going around is why do so many people hate Raki. There is no shortage of good reasons for this but another one in particular is that Raki is not only emasculating for the male gender...
    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    Raki is still the same emasculating male character he was when Claymore first started. Throw in a few generic moments for him to flex that C average strength and he's still the same emasculating male character he was when Claymore first started.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    So Raki took down a Yoma. So what?
    He didn't just kill a yoma he killed it for free. And it was implied that he was killing yomas whenever he came into town that had one.
    Killing yoma for free -> The Organization looses money
    Killing a lots of yoma for free -> The Organization looses a whole lot of money.
    The Organization loosing a whole lot of money -> I'm not sure but probably the reason the current generation of warriors are being as week as they are.
    In other words Raki hurt the Organization in a way that no other character (since Teresa) has.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    A few chapters later, boom Raki gets captured. Last time I checked a strong character is able to overcome obstacles not fall victim to them at everyturn.
    Even the strongest characters sometimes find themselves in a situation where they need to be rescued. (Jean and Miria got saved by Clare, Clare got saved by Helen and Deneve).

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    Fans have a take on the battle. I have another. Mine is more inline with what actually happened. 1) It was Raki's own admission that they were going easy on him and he also admitted that he still had trouble and 2) Claymores are conditioned to not attack humans, this conditioning is strongest during childhood so of course they're not going to be able to take down Raki while battling this psychological hurdle. [No one needs to waste my time or yours by questioning me. I'm quite exceptional with adult psychology and early childhood psychology so to move this along take solace in the fact that I'm correct.] 3) Raki did not defeat the twins. Raki survived for no other reason than the twins calling it quits when they realized that Raki was not with the MIB.
    4) Raki was injured. Miria had more time to heal than Raki and still hadn't completely recover (the rods and Priscilla's arm were extracted from him after Miria's first failed attempt of invasion). Not to mention the actual severity of the injury. 5) The twins didn't defeat Raki either.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    The majority of the MIB don't even engage in combat. They're teachers, scientists, and researchers. ... Naturally there has to be some who teach the Claymore in the way of the blade. But you also have those who are scouts for the MIB, scientists, those who teach Claymore basic information about yoma, yoki, and so forth. I wouldn't be surprised if Raki beat up a couple IT guys.
    Teachers, scientists, and researchers were the ones who hid themselves in that room with Rimuto. Those guys Raki fought are clearly grunts. Furthermore the fact that the twins were put in charge of backing up the trainees establishes that the rebels view those grunts as credible threat. Even Audry thought that it would be impossible for a single human to defeat them all and she didn't know that the human in question is a wounded man. Also Raki taking over the duty of guarding the trainees from the twins saved pretty much all of the non single digit half-yoma warriors from certain death by abyss feeders.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    Rabona is filled with guys who can take down yoma.
    The Rabona solders had advantage in numbers, were better organized and had backup in form of two half-yoma warriors. One on one against a yoma they'd be all toast as proven by chapters 5-11.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    So Raki took on the same set of twins that Miria took on. Sort of easy to fight an opponent who isn't actually trying to kill you don't you think.
    Tell that to any professional boxer and see how they react.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    We have this character who gets a few shots in the spotlight but in the grand scheme of things he remains an unnecessary byproduct of broadening a cast which already has plenty of interesting characters but who must forever remain underdeveloped and underexplored to provide airtime for a character who is overrated and who does little more than underdeliver.
    Wrong. Raki is currently the most underexplored character in this story. All other characters are either sufficiently explored or they can't bring anything new worth exploring. These newly introduced claymores cannot bring any new and interesting twist on the whole "orphand by the yoma, taken by the Organization" scenario. The last who did that was Dietrich and now we pretty much know everything we need to know about her.

    On the other hand, there's a lot of questions about Raki that need answering. How did he find about the true nature of Isley and Priscilla? How did he react? How did he learn of the nature of the awakened beings and their connection to half-yoma warriors? What else does he know? And most importantly, what is he going to do with his newfound knowledge? Answering these questions is far more interesting than going through another claymore-orphan story.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 17, 2011 at 04:04 PM.

  9. #66
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    Quote Quote:
    Wrong. Raki is currently the most underexplored character in this story. All other characters are either sufficiently explored or they can't bring anything new worth exploring. These newly introduced claymores cannot bring any new and interesting twist on the whole "orphand by the yoma, taken by the Organization" scenario. The last who did that was Dietrich and now we pretty much know everything we need to know about her.

    I would be more intrested in more background from Teresa's generation then Raki. It's fine to give Raki his spotlight however but I think in the end he'll be used as a sacrificial lamb once his role been played out.

    Like Ilena's childhood, what happend in her past that made her so focus and able to create the quicksword. It must be something horrible and worth reading. What were the dynamic between Teresa and Irene, the two knows each other rather well and even regard each other as friends I say. What role did Rubel and Rafaela played in that era. How common and powerful were the AB's compare to now. It's just a lot of history I think would be really intresting.
    Last edited by Khorr; June 17, 2011 at 10:57 AM.

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  11. #67
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    Nuts Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    Actually I enjoy seeing the female cast kicking ass better than the guys. I enjoy seeing these strong women tear ass on the battlefield.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroid View Post
    He didn't just kill a yoma he killed it for free. And it was implied that he was killing yomas whenever he came into town that had one.
    Killing yoma for free -> The Organization looses money
    Killing a lots of yoma for free -> The Organization looses a whole lot of money.
    The Organization loosing a whole lot of money -> I'm not sure but probably the reason the current generation of warriors are being as week as they are.
    In other words Raki hurt the Organization in a way that no other character (since Teresa) has.
    What does killing a yoma for free have to do with Raki's power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroid View Post
    Even the strongest characters sometimes find themselves in a situation where they need to be rescued. (Jean and Miria got saved by Clare, Clare got saved by Helen and Deneve).
    No one is denying that. My issue is that Raki always gets into jams where he needs help. Nothing is wrong with someone needing help. The issue is when a character always needs help froms someone and the writer expects us to believe that they are somehow, "tough."

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroid View Post
    4) Raki was injured. Miria had more time to heal than Raki and still hadn't completely recover (the rods and Priscilla's arm were extracted from him after Miria's first failed attempt of invasion). Not to mention the actual severity of the injury. 5) The twins didn't defeat Raki either.
    Lol what?! What?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroid View Post
    Teachers, scientists, and researchers were the ones who hid themselves in that room with Rimuto. Those guys Raki fought are clearly grunts. Furthermore the fact that the twins were put in charge of backing up the trainees establishes that the rebels view those grunts as credible threat. Even Audry thought that it would be impossible for a single human to defeat them all and she didn't know that the human in question is a wounded man. Also Raki taking over the duty of guarding the trainees from the twins saved pretty much all of the non single digit half-yoma warriors from certain death by abyss feeders.
    Raki was trained by Isley, an abyssal one and all he can do is knock over a bunch of yoma a couple mooks. You don't see the issue with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroid View Post
    The Rabona solders had advantage in numbers, were better organized and had backup in form of two half-yoma warriors. One on one against a yoma they'd be all toast as proven by chapters 5-11.
    I wasn't referring to that particular attack. I'm referring to the fact that Rabona soldiers are combat ready to take down yoma. That's why they don't send requests to the organization. The only time they actually sent one was because there was a yoma who was larger and faster than the others. The soldiers of Rabona can deal with yoma well enough. Further proof of Renee's credibility when she stated that it wasn't rare for humans to be able to take down yoma, which was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroid View Post
    Wrong. Raki is currently the most underexplored character in this story. All other characters are either sufficiently explored or they can't bring anything new worth exploring. These newly introduced claymores cannot bring any new and interesting twist on the whole "orphand by the yoma, taken by the Organization" scenario. The last who did that was Dietrich and now we pretty much know everything we need to know about her.
    Not sure if serious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroid View Post
    On the other hand, there's a lot of questions about Raki that need answering. How did he find about the true nature of Isley and Priscilla? How did he react? How did he learn of the nature of the awakened beings and their connection to half-yoma warriors? What else does he know? And most importantly, what is he going to do with his newfound knowledge? Answering these questions is far more interesting than going through another claymore-orphan story.
    Not really. Raki is a side-character, he isn't a main character and therefore does not require any particular focus on behalf of the plot. I have a background in psychology and analyzing people is not something I can turn off.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 17, 2011 at 04:12 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    Moderator message by: HegemonKhan
    Leroid and ZP, debate Claymore content and only Claymore content, not each other. This is a warning to both of you.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member faintsmile1992's Avatar
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    Well, I don't blame Clare for kissing her Raki-chan, and though many males see him as a crybaby because of how he was as a little kid and because he cries at the start of the anime, girls seem much more likely to have a crush on him.

    Lots of boys might put on an act of respecting a girl, but Raki proves his manliness to his lady by protecting her from the guards in Rabona and especially from Ophelia. Not surprisingly Clare kissed him in that story arc, after he didn't even scream when he was being tortured by Ophelia because it would have cost Clare her life. He's husband and daddy material, he's the ideal of the knight who comes and sweeps a girl off her feet and takes care of her, and boys who are so perfect probably don't exist all that often in real life.

    "According to the 2800 women surveyed in the study, honesty, trustworthiness, love, respect, humour and kindness were the most important attributes a man could bring to a relationship.

    But further questioning revealed what really mattered the most to them was sexual attraction, good looks, sharing similar interests and masculinity."

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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    He needs to be more useful tbh.
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    I wonder why he didn't go fighting with Clare, Miria and the others in Chapter 131, after all he can kick out Yoma, so it was expectable that he could do some dents on the Awakened Beings like Clarice does XD
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    Regarding the comparison with Krillin : yes, he was just there after a while, but this is actually more than can be said about some of the other characters. Krillin may have been useless, but he was well aware of it and had no illusion about his chances. He's the guy who didn't hesitate to attack someone much more powerful if it meant buying his family some time to escape.

    This at least deserves some respect.

    Other than chibi-Clare, Raki is the only character who has shown any sympathy for Claymores from the start. Even the guards of Rabona used to discriminate against Claymores pre-timeskip, considering them only as half-monsters (rather than half-humans). Also, while he does cry a lot, it often comes off as crying for them, which is something no human would normally do (remember when Clare actually requested that the villagers bury the unknown dying warrior from the 'Witch's maw' arc, with the respect they'd give a human)

    The fact that Raki can kill Yoma should be taken with a grain of salt is true, since Renee said it's not impossible. What we don't know however is how easily a human can dispatch a Yoma. Raki did it very easily, and the Yoma felt it was like fighting a Claymore. That's actually a more relevant hint of his skill than the fight itself. Sure Yoma are weak compared to ABs, but at least Raki should be able to avoid getting killed : while he can't protect Clare, he can protect himself so she can focus on her fight instead of putting herself at risk for him. Sure he's not useful per say, but he's not the complete liability he used to be, which is probably enough for him.

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  20. #73
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member littleangel's Avatar
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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    There are people who actually like Raki?? I bet if they started reading the manga before he showed up as an adult they wouldn't have the same opinion...

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    Re: Who here likes Raki as a character in the story?

    me, being not overly strong for a guy, kinda like him since he kinda represents us guys who aren't that big or powerful and i like strong women. so yeah, i kinda like that he's emotional and not as strong or more often then not, stronger, then the lead woman.

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