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Thread: Tousen's Zanpakutou

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    Tousen's Zanpakutou

    Tousen's zanpakutoh is very different from the zanpakutoh of the other Bleach characters. It wasn't originally his. Furthermore, he has two release commands. One may be the release command of the original owner and the other is his release command. Now, I'm not talking about having a shikai with more than one ability like what Urahara has. Tousen has two different release commands for his zanpakutoh.

    Command 1: "Cry"
    Command 2: "Smash his limbs"

    His first command releases a high-pitched tone to knock out his opponent. His second command allows him to make A LOT of blades that crash down on you.

    The bankai he's shown us identifies with command 1 ("Cry") as both that shikai and the bankai attack the opponent's senses.

    Now, my question is, does Tousen have a 2nd bankai? His 2nd one would identify with the 2nd shikai release command. If he does have a 2nd bankai, then can he possibly use both bankais at once? If so, then everyone get down because Tousen just looks a whole lot stronger now.

    **This is off topic, but I kind of wonder why Tousen did not bother to use his "Cry" command to simply knock Kenpachi unconscious or why he didn't cut Kenpachi's head off right after bankai (it's obvious that Tousen can in fact cut Kenpachi pretty deep).

    Anyway, what is everyone else's thoughts? Do you think it's possible for Tousen to have a 2nd bankai?

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    They're not two different shikais, just two different powers. Byakuya's bankai also has different forms and they are not different bankais. Maybe Tousen also has another kind of attack in bankai, but that doesn't mean they're different.

    And probably, his "cry" attack only works on weak enemies, like Ishida, who was losing all of hist reiatsu at that moment. And Kenpachi is a reiatsu powerhouse, so he wouldn't go down with a weak attack like that. Well, that's the most logical reason imo.

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by sk.nite View Post
    They're not two different shikais, just two different powers. Byakuya's bankai also has different forms and they are not different bankais. Maybe Tousen also has another kind of attack in bankai, but that doesn't mean they're different.

    And probably, his "cry" attack only works on weak enemies, like Ishida, who was losing all of hist reiatsu at that moment. And Kenpachi is a reiatsu powerhouse, so he wouldn't go down with a weak attack like that. Well, that's the most logical reason imo.
    They are not two different abilities for the same shikai. They are TWO DIFFERENT SHIKAIS. Why else would there be two different RELEASE commands? A release command unseals the incarnation in the zanpakutoh, so why would he have to different commands to release the same incarnation? I believe he has two incarnations in his zanpakutoh. One that unseals to the command "Cry" and the other unseals to the command "Smash his limbs."

    I tried to make it clear that this is not just two abilities for the same shikai like Urahara's. These are two different release commands which is very different.

    Also, I don't mean to be down on you, but that's a pretty bad explanation on why he didn't use "Cry" on Kenpachi. The command is too weak to use on Kenpachi? =| Tousen can cut Kenpachi meaning his reiatsu isn't so far off from Kenpachi.

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    Just because it has two commands doesn't mean it has two shikai forms. In fact, neither is a "form" of any sort, since the blade doesn't change in any way.

    However, Tousen is an unusual guy because he took his friend's sword. So, just as his shikai can produce two unique effects, maybe his bankai can too. This does not mean he has two bankai forms, just that his bankai can do two different tricks.

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    I think the reason he can't use the attack "cry" on kenpachi is b/c it is not strong enough to knock out or paralyze a captain class shinigami, especially someone like kenpachi. Cry creates a high pitch that overwhelms the enemy. I just don't see how an attack like that can hurt kenpachi seeing how crazy he is.

    Also I don't think it is that easy to cut off the head of someone with that much spiritual pressure. Sure he could cut kenpachi, but I don't think he could cut him to that degree

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    for once i agree with zeus, i realli do believe tousen has 2 bankais and 2 shikais, maybe 2 different swords or 1 sword with 2 releases

    but it is wierd for the same coul cutter to have 2 completeli unrelated abilities, tousens bankai atks a persons senses and the 'cry' matches its description of knocking out ones hearing which forces them to faint.

    then his second one is a like byakuyas where it sends out multiple blades.
    Last edited by gfire2; June 22, 2008 at 11:43 PM.

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    Interesting idea. After Tousen utters that “smash his limbs” part also adds, “Suzumushi form 2, Benihikou” or something along those lines, an exact translation might be useful, help, anybody? This quite reminds of Rukia’s zanpakto actually, with the “dance” release and then the “first dance, tsukishirou” and “second dance, hakuren” attacks.

    One pertinent question that we should perhaps ask is whether “smash his limbs” is a release command or not. Certainly, it’s not unreasonable to think so, considering “shoot to kill” is Gin’s, and there don’t seem to be any hard and fast rules concerning them – since they do range from the short and snappy to the long and poetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy0830 View Post
    Just because it has two commands doesn't mean it has two shikai forms. In fact, neither is a "form" of any sort, since the blade doesn't change in any way.

    The blade doesn’t change, strictly speaking, but these ARE shikai forms here. It is usual that a zanpakto will change form on releasing, but is it a strict rule for all cases? I don’t ever recall seeing that said. Besides, Tousen himself utters the words “second form” which suggests an alternate form, amazingly! That Benihikou shower of blades IS the second form, even if the sword proper remains exactly the same. More than one zanpakto is known to come apart, after all.

    Ultimately, I’m inclined toward the “one sword, one shikai” view, but I do like the idea of a multiple shikai and others have debated elsewhere the possibility of Tousen having more than one sword, which could leave that door open, possibly. Though here, Tousen does use the one zanpakto in both shikai cases, so unless Suzumushi has an identical twin I think we can rule out the the “second shikai by second sword” possibility.

    Ending on a more amusing note, even if Tousen had two distinct shikai then this will be problematic later on! Assuming two, these can be distinguished by the release command - but bankai? Shouting “bankai!” is only going to confused the hell out of one’s zanpakto, who may not know which bankai to use.

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    The blade doesn't have to change:

    -Komamura's sword doesn't change when he goes shikai. He just summons a giant's arm, leg, etc.
    -Urahara's blade does not change. It simply just fires off a blast or the blood-mist shield.
    -Gin's blade just changes length at his will. That's hardly a change.
    -Aizen's blade does not change appearance at all.

    The blade doesn't have to change. Furthermore, this isn't a case where the same release has two or more abilities. This is one zanpakutoh having two release commands.

    My theory is that within this blade there is the zanpakutoh incarnation original to Tousen and the incarnation original to Tousen's dead friend. It may even be the case that Tousen fused the blades into one so he'd be controlling two spirits.

    Again, I stress that this is definitely not one shikai with more than one ability. This is two shikais because of two different release commands.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    They could easilly be 2 different shikai since Tousen took his friend's sword.
    You go by the premise that his deceased friend developed that other shikai right?
    Thing is, I don't see Tousen having another bankai unless his friend was able to use it too, and I kinda think he wasn't.

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    They could easilly be 2 different shikai since Tousen took his friend's sword.
    You go by the premise that his deceased friend developed that other shikai right?
    Thing is, I don't see Tousen having another bankai unless his friend was able to use it too, and I kinda think he wasn't.
    Bankai is simply mastering your incarnation. If it is confirmed that it's a 2nd shikai and thus a 2nd incarnation (one of his deceased friend) then all he has to do is master it to reach bankai with it.

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    not taking sides yet until I put some decent thought into this, but let us not forget that those who have mastered bankai no longer need to say the release command for shikai. "cry" and "smash his limbs" could simply be commands for his shikai's attacks, rather than actual releases.

    Urahara can use Benihime's offensive move without speaking, but he has a special command for his defensive move. Perhaps Tousen immediately released his shikai when he drew his weapon, or his zanpakuto is a permanent release type

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    I dont think tousen has 2 shikai's, he simply has 2 diferent abilities with his zanpakutoh much like uruhara or rukia do. The only diference would be that tousen's zanpakutoh never changes it's form when releasing it using it's abilities.
    Or maybe Tousen's zanpakuto is a constant release state type of zanpakuto and he simply calls out the name of the technique.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    It's really time to step on it a little. Constant release, different techniques, calling out and so on and so on...

    I'll just add that Tousen having 2 bankai would be a hell of a way to account for his handycap.
    That's not to say that I believe it is so.

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    I'm not sure wtf to say about this there are still alot of unknowns with in bleach but it's a possibility just like there is a possibility that Gin is really just a punk that knows how to kill but is weaker then Sado but it's all unproven until either Kubo ends the manga or he dose something the offical states it. Like with Kenpachi we all thought he was about to pull out his shikai...but he dose something unexpected he actually shows that he can use his sword with an actual sword style and not just his improvised one handed style

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    Re: Tousen's Zanpakutoh: Two Bankais?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-Tails View Post
    They are not two different abilities for the same shikai. They are TWO DIFFERENT SHIKAIS. Why else would there be two different RELEASE commands? A release command unseals the incarnation in the zanpakutoh, so why would he have to different commands to release the same incarnation? I believe he has two incarnations in his zanpakutoh. One that unseals to the command "Cry" and the other unseals to the command "Smash his limbs."

    I tried to make it clear that this is not just two abilities for the same shikai like Urahara's. These are two different release commands which is very different.

    Also, I don't mean to be down on you, but that's a pretty bad explanation on why he didn't use "Cry" on Kenpachi. The command is too weak to use on Kenpachi? =| Tousen can cut Kenpachi meaning his reiatsu isn't so far off from Kenpachi.
    I never said that it had something to do with a difference in power. And where did I get my bad explanation? Here:

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/115/06/

    Can you show me something that supports your theory?

    Why didn't Tousen kill Kenpachi in the first strike? Simple. He wanted to show Ken-chan true fear before killing him, but picked the wrong guy to do that. Is that a stupid reason? Yes, but what did you expect? Things like this happen in shonen manga.

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