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In all the excitement of finding out the actual backstory to the Shinji and Co. I got to re-reading the first few chapters that actually introduce the Vizards into the storyline.
When Urahara and Isshin (after having defeated Grand Fisher) have a candid conversation regarding the Vizards, and the sudden increase in power of the Arrancar, Isshin states:
'The Vizards...A lawless gang of ex-soul reapers, who tried to acquire hollow powers through forbidden methods. There whereabouts and ideology are unknown. They could be trouble." (taken from official Viz Media - English Translation)'
I noticed when Isshin made these claims - Urahara said nothing. Making no effort to clarify his involvement nor his association with the Vizards. He let him believe that they were simply a bunch of outcasts who went rogue on SS. Meahwhile, as recent chapters have shown, it was quite the opposite.
Isshin also failed to notice that the gigai that hid him all these years (produced by Urahara), was similar to the one concealing the Vizards. [this thing is just speculation on my part]
I really wouldn't put it past Urahara, that Isshin does not know the whole truth. Though a favourite character of mine, he seems to be a man of MANY motives - with an equally complicated past.
I don't think Urahara would've lied to Isshin about it, but its possible. I think for suspense purposes, Isshin said what he did because it was basically the "party line" for Soul Society. That is probably the general description given by the higher ups in the SS as to who the vizards are, and why they were exiled and slated for destruction as hollows.
i think viz stuffed the trans up, i dont beleive it was worded like that consult the official manga and see what it says there
The fact that Isshin seemed okay with the vaizard approaching Ichigo, knowing full well how powerful the vaizard are, is enough to assume that it is indeed what SS thinks of them, not necessarily his own assessment. If he really thought of them that way he'd somehow interfere with them trying to recruit Ichigo, I think.
I also believe it explains Urahara's guilty silence, they probably BOTH know the truth about the vaizard and if they're friends I'm sure Isshin wouldn't want to rub in Urahara's "failure" by putting the blame on their transformation on him.
In fact we shouldn't forget it's Aizen who actually started the process of creating vaizard. Though the vaizard is what he wanted to achieve, he didn't expect it to succeed. Urahara's involvement and exposure of the hougyoku are what stabilized it all into an effective new form.
Without Urahara there wouldn't be any vaizard today, but he didn't create them...
Great topic, graphic_content!
But look at this: Urahara said, in the gaiden`s last chapter, that he`ll do anything in order to save Shinji and co., right? But it was about 100 years ago, and we cannot discard the possibility that Urahara lost contact with them in some time in the past, and we don`t know when the name "Vizard" was given to them;
When Urahara, Tessai and them pre-vizards left Soul Society, Shinji and co. were hollows, and no one could say they had hollow powers in that time, they were pretty much done, don`t you agree?
In this meantime, Urahara lost contact with them, but before they got hollow powers and received the name "Vizard", then Urahara cannot possibly know that all of them were able to control they hollow side, thus gaining forbidden powers;
The vizards always were in that warehouse, and probably they have acted in the shadows, hiding their true identities, this way, neither Isshin or Urahara know for sure who are the vizards;
for those who`ve played Resident Evil, try to think like that:
Main storyline = Resident Evil 1
Gaiden Saga = Resident Evil 0
What happen in the gap between the 2 events is the great problem...
Nice Observation, Graphic.
The only ones to know the Truth about the Vaizards are the ones who were present in the crime scene ( Aizen and co plus Urahara, Tessai and Youroychi ). I Don't see the need of Urahara telling everybody about the vaizards whereabouts and history. Since its something he's decided to devote his life for ( reverse the hollowfication ). What relys Issin kurosaki, Urahara and Ishida's father has yet to be revealed.
Being this secretive and misterious person is what makes Urahara such interesting Caracter. And maybe he just learned from experience... Somethings are better to keep for yourself, you cant trust anyone with secret infos, not even the closest to you.
Urahara did lie to Isshin. Isshin came to the real world or at least met Urahara and got a gigai 20 years prior to the story starting. As such he wouldn't know the truth, but would know the "official" one that Central 46 wrote down. Also since he's going with the wrong version it's safe to say he doesn't know the truth.
-got the Hachigen part, just didn't remember him being in the fight but his body is there. Thanks Tsukisama
Last edited by Amatersu; July 06, 2008 at 08:46 AM. Reason: incorrect statment
My thoughts on the topic
I don't think Urahara lied to Isshin about the vizards. It's most likely that Isshin have heard the story from SS (before abandoning his powers) and Urahara he just never told Isshin the truth. Urahara has done that before, like when he sent Ichigo to SS without telling him about the Hougyoku.
I don't think Urahara is doing that because he has a bad hidden goal but it's hard for Urahara to fully trust others after he was framed and the way SS dealt with him. Plus, there are two more reasons to keep the truth hidden:
1- Urahara has vowed to "cure" the vizards and letting others get involved may not be wise since the vizards are still under the death sentence as far as Urahara is concerned.
2- The vizards are hiding from everyone including Urahara. Urahara needs to find their intentions before deciding how to deal with them next.
frankly i think isshin was just being sarcastic, i.e saying the opposite of what he meant/thought to make his REAL character seem more serious.
I actually had it in my mind that Isshin was lecturing Urahara. He seemed to have some athority, to the point Urahara didnt want to argue with him. Its entirely possable that Isshin knows alot more about vizards than Urahara does depinding on who Isshin really is. This set of vizards might be nicer, but that doesnt mean there the first to crop up.