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If he use Tenshintai, the transform body that Ichigo used to materialize the soul of his Zanpakuto. Assume that Kenpachi's zanpakuto is always in released form, he only needs to stap his zanpakuto into this thing. Then it will forcefully materialize his zanpakutou soul.
Hopefully we can see Kenpachi's bankai in the future.
Not quite! Remember that materializing/manifesting one's zanpakutou is only PART of the process. A certainly necessary step, but without also subjugating that zanpakuto after manifesting the spirit form, it wouldn't matter whether one can materialize it or not.
And that test is not simply one of brute force; the zanpakutou will not submit unless beaten on terms of its own choosing - we only saw this for Ichigo, but one can probably surmise that these terms will differ for every zanpakutou out there. To simply give Zaraki a test in brute strength is a laughably simple affair.
Materializing the zanpakutou form is an exercise in experience and discipline and familiarity with the zanpakutou. (Does any of this sound like Zaraki?) So, by attaining that first step toward bankai, the shinigami has effectively been trained for the second, the subjugation. Urahara probably knew full well the consequences of making such a device as the Tenshintai readily available - you get a plethora of would-be-bankaiists coming along and getting themselves damaged/killed for not first having had the necessary rigor and training to better deal with their materialized zanpakutou.
Well ichigo didnt know zangetsu all that much considering he meet him like a week before the fight and only started trusting zangetsu in battle like a day before his training started.
Maybe he could but i would be really dificult for him because he knowd nothing about his zampakuto and the only progress he has achieved so far in that area is caling his swoord a him. Yoruichi also implied ichigo was already subconciously at the materialization level, something kempachi is not even close (as far as it has been revealed).
I think this method would work for sure for zaraki if he just goes a little bit farther on his own. I dont think he should have much troube beating the crap out of his zampakuto once he summons it using urahara's technique.
Zaraki was a jerk to his Zanpaktou he knows absolutely nothing about it. Whether its a he or a she. What he/she looks like, etc. He would have it 10 times harder then what Ichigo had considering all things.
Plus don't forget it doesn't have to be brute strength it can be any number of things,(like Ichigo's) Zaraki well sorry bud but you aint going to be getting Bankai anytime soon.
P.S. We have no reason to believe that a zanpaktou will not be as strong as the user ^^
I don't even understand zaraki's zanpakuto. He uses the same sword as a captain that he used when he was just a SS commoner (when he fought ikkaku). Either it's a constantly released zannpakuto, of which zaraki has no idea what abilities it has, or its not even a zanpakuto at all (just a sword).
I'm with Nordic on this.
Ichigo has a solid relationship with his sword before using the Doll. He also showed us his potential well before we knew about it. Zaraki, on the other hand, has been using his own brute force for God knows how long. As Eddy pointed out, we don't even know what state the sword is in or what it does.* Jumping into a training regimen that only 2 people have successfully used would be far too dangerous, even for him.
For all we know, it could be a Kidou based Zanpakuto. The avatar could tell Zaraki to beat them just using Kidou and Bakudo. Then what would he do? Zaraki hasn't shown enough control to even think about Bankai right now.
(* Any spam posts re-igniting the "Zaraki shikai" debate will be deleted. Good day.)
interesting guess but, zaraki doesn't have that kinda patience to wait 3 days and not get any where the first 2. but the method the zanpaktous soul choses could be based on brute force or, to get him stronger, kido based. if he does get bankai then we will see. i mean if ikkaku got it and hes 3rd seat then kenpachi has a good chance. the captains r well known and popular so giving him bankai would increase popularity for him. and since he just had a fight even more popular and its gonna be in the anim soon so more popular yet.
i'd say, using the doll method, he does have a chance.
yes, it would only materialize it and there's still more to do. but as of right now, his zanpakuto won't even speak to him. after his fight with Ichigo, he asked it's name, but as he expected, it was silent, wanting nothing to do with him.
if he could at least materialize it, it would be forced to face him. he could then talk to it and (long shot here, as he's not much of a friendly people person) possibly make amends.
if he could just materialize it then it's possible that he could make some progress with it and maybe it would end up cooperating a little bit.
i'm sure this won't happen, not only because it's so late in Bleach that there aren't many more dire needs or battles that Kenpachi will have where he might have a use for bankai, but also because not having bankai or a relationship with his zanpakuto is one of the main things that makes Zaraki unique. he's the only shinigami we know with such circumstances, and changing that would change his whole character.
just saying, it seems like it could be possible.
^ I think it's a possibility for any of the captain class fighters. Zaraki is no exception. However, as you said, he's had no relationship with his sword for years, so he'd have to fully train with and master his Shikai first. But we all know Zaraki isn't the methodical type.
I doubt we'll ever see him use a full Shikai, let alone a Bankai. Hell, he may not even fight again.
Yeah, it seems like Kubo will end bleach after this next arc (beat aizen+espadas, live happily ever after). I mean, Kubo could extend it (like Aizen was one of many elite criminals or something), but to make an even larger antagonist would mean that the arc would have to be at least twice as long as the HM+espadas arc.
This is both quite true and quite ironic in fact. It should be possible for any of the captain level shinigami to use this method to attain bankai, but being the captain level shinigami they are, there is NO NEED for them to go through with this method to achieve what they can do naturally!
As for the thread topic, I don’t think Zaraki qualifies. We have other threads to debate this fact, probably, but Zaraki is NOT captain level in anything EXCEPT raw power/reiatsu – he’s only where he is for that specific reason.
Last edited by nordicbattlesigns; August 04, 2008 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Yoruichi said that the doll forcibly materialises the swords spirit into the real world, but dd she say shikai was a requirement?
The trick here is whether shikai and basic level of comunication is required for this type of training.
If those things are required, the zaraki is screwed, but id they are not, then zaraki could pull it off. Hell, if you combine this training, with the healing techniques yoruichi used on ichigo and zaraki's stupid resistance to wounds that go beyond mortal, he could probably go on with the training for way longer than the standart 3 days, which would really help.
The whole bankai training process has been so focused on Ichigo’s side of the matter, for the obvious and inevitable reasons, that Yoruichi’s own contributions have been all but overlooked! It is very much a TWO person process, and Yoruichi is the other very vital element in all of this.
Not simply for her knowledge and possession of the device, and playing mentor figure to Ichigo much as Urahara did back in the mortal world. Even more critically, all the while as Ichigo was contending with the materialized Zangetsu, it was Yoruichi’s own strength keeping Zangetsu materialized. So this is not merely a dangerous process for the trainee but a taxing one for the “mentor” also; presumably it is a drain on the mentor’s own reiatsu. (See http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/127/06/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/130/02/ for particulars.) It is almost criminal that this fact has been overlooked – it’s not simply a case of stab the doll and fight away!
Bearing this in mind, two more reasons why Zaraki probably won’t attain bankai by this particular method, in addition to being completely out of sync with his zanpakutou:
- He has no access to the Tenshintai! Is this such a trivial idea as it sounds? Interestingly, this is actually an artifact of the special ops division (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/127/05/) which was very much Yoruichi’s domain once upon a time – if she is not about to release it into more general use then one can’t exactly see anyone, let alone Kempachi, making use of it.
(Unrelated note: is this the first hint/foreshadowing of Urahara’s pre-captaincy days within the second division/special ops group, that one of his inventions (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/132/17/) is found here?)
- He wouldn’t know how to use it! It isn’t simply a process of somebody handing Zaraki the doll and expecting him to gain bankai. There is the whole mentor angle, somebody must power the Tenshintai with their own reiatsu. Plus this device seems much of the same nature as the Hogyouku or those untraceable gigai, secretive in the extreme; would anybody not Urahara or Yoruichi in fact be able to make use of it, with no knowledge of its use or function – Mayuri, perhaps?
On a mostly unrelated tangent, if this process wasn’t so dangerous for the bankai trainee, then the swift creation of many shinigami bankai shock troops by this method could have been the ideal counter against Aizen’s Hogyouku-made arrancar/Espada. Train up just one hundred or so to bankai level, and the scales would tip DEFINITIVELY back to Soul Society’s favor. The only problem then would be the matter of time for training each individual. The power source would be a no-brainer; Zaraki makes the ideal long-life battery – again, this is oddly reminiscent of Aizen’s pulling out the twice-captain reiatsu to awaken the Hogyouku. We can’t do this for reasons of plot, of course, but that is another one for the Bleach-might-have-beens.
In this thread it was assumed that zaraki had the doll and someone to power it up or at least that was the impresion most of us got.
Also the sync woth the soul cutter is required to get shikai. The doll forcefully materialises the zanpakutou into the real world, so I dont see why sync would be needed to succesfully use the doll.
Probably the training wouldnt be effective if there is no level of sync between zaraki and his sword, but if his zanpakutou is forcefully brought into the world he could probably at least force the name out of it and as I said in and earlier post, zaraki has a completely out of the ordinary stamina and resistence to wounds that would kill anyone but himself, so he could probably take the training far longer than 3 days, specialy if combined with some healing techniques such as the ones yoruichi or orihime have used before.
Whoever wants Kenpachi to achieve Bankai is just plain insane...
He beat the 5TH ESPADA, by just swinging his sword with two hands.
That guy is already mad powerful as it is, if he learns the name of his sword, then goes Bankai, Aizen would piss his pants.